Email To The Leaders Of Our Tiny Church

[FC]

We have a lot of black kids that get picked up for church service. This is about the youth:

 

A new study from the journal Crime and Delinquency offered a shocking finding: "Nearly half of black males and almost 40 percent of white males in the U.S. are arrested by age 23." University of South Carolina criminology professor Robert Brame authored the study and wrote, "A problem is that many males -- especially black males -- are navigating the transition from youth to adulthood with the baggage and difficulties from contact with the criminal justice system." We think the opposite is true -- they're encountering the justice system because of personal baggage and difficulties acquired in their youth. This is most often caused by the breakdown of the family over the last 50 years, which, in turn, has been the result of cultural degradation and government incentives for single parenthood.

Hi all,

My fear is that we are perpetuating the entitlement mentality in the youth by giving and giving to them, and not developing discipline in them. We give a LOT, and expect nothing. I offered to have some of us talk about our jobs with the youth, and got no invitation. I hired Nick to move some furniture, and discovered he knows almost no guy stuff, because he and the other youth have no dad around. We're failing to prepare them for adulthood, I suspect because we pity them, and want them to come to church too badly.

The kids complained to Pat bitterly because I told them two Sundays ago, "Either be quiet, or leave" when they continued to goof off during church service. Rather than calling me, Pat called Rhonda to get the scoop. They talked during communion, talked during the sermon, no matter what Barbara said to them. Shantaria was reading a personal book, Justin was making faces, Theo and Taylor were talking. They wanted to know why Barbara wanted them to open the Bible. Do they memorize Scripture? Are they just there because we entertain and give to them?

They are going to utterly fail in the real world if we don't do something to give them guidance for their future, compel them to expend effort in study, career choices, and Scripture. I offered to teach them woodworking, gardening, and how to care for the chickens- no takers. I heard Dale has made some offers to teach woodworking. I know they are provided with love and care by our church, but it's not enough. The disruptions to the service must stop, the games and fun need to decrease. Let's find out which of the kids really care to become something with their lives. I wish those who tell Barbara and I about their exasperation would say something to the leadership, and not just to Barbara or I.

[brokengun]

Too many churches think that listening to the word of god is all that is needed and everything will be ok. First you have to want to hear the word for the word to be effective/meaningful.

 

I agree with you FC these young men need something more. We have generations of young men that think stealing and making babies are the mark of a man.

 

Street-wise is not an education unless you plan on spending time in prison.

[karlunity]

I am beginning to think that short of a new Cromwell and a civil war things are not going to get fixed.

Fathers are a joke on tv and that is where kids learn. The jobs are in Asia. The very word "MAN" has been replaced by "MALE" which is not the same thing.

 

I do not see much chance of a happy ending.

I could be wrong...hope I am.

 

karl

[sayak]

I agree with all that you gentlemen have written above, but we live in a terminal world. All we can be is salt and light in a society which has turned its back on God.. We maintain the ancient borders and stand our ground. To some we will be an aroma of life, to others an aroma of death... it just goes with the territory.

The Prince of This World holds sway over most of its populace, it is our job to be sweetly reasonable where we can be, but it is the Holy Spirit's job to do the freeing from Satan's thrall.

[FC]

Funny- three of you have written in response, but not a word yet from any of the people I sent it to. We'll see what happens. The world is short of leaders. Have a vision and stick your neck out there. Say what needs to be said, and do what needs to be done.

 

Oops, forgot the last paragraph:

They are going to utterly fail in the real world if we don't do something to give them guidance for their future, compel them to expend effort in study, career choices, and Scripture. I offered to teach them woodworking, gardening, and how to care for the chickens- no takers. I heard Dale has made some offers to teach woodworking. I know they are provided with love and care by our church, but it's not enough. The disruptions to the service must stop, the games and fun need to decrease. Let's find out which of the kids really care to become something with their lives. I wish those who tell Barbara and I about their exasperation would say something to the leadership, and not just to Barbara or I.

[brokengun]

FC I just realized the reason the church has not responded may be because they dont really care!

[FC]

I think the leaders are in group-think mode, and think Barbara and I are too harsh. Me specifically- they probably think I'm too Army. Nobody said anything last night at the meeting. I had to leave because of a busted pipe up the hill in the other garage, but I came back for Barbara. She said nobody said anything. Pastor has email but doesn't tend to read it for some reason, but the others do. I sent it to them all via email because I write better than I talk, and it goes to all of them. Pretty discouraging.

 

Here's a little more history: the kids have been horsing around and ignoring any adults who say anything to them much of the time. The youth leader prevents me from intervening, but he wasn't there two Sundays ago. T'giving I was sitting at a round table with 3 adults, and three of these kids. I asked, "Are you off from school this week?" The one next to me turned away slightly, and none of the three answered me, but one of the adults who works in the school system did. They also cut back in the food line for seconds before all the adults had firsts. They left their messes on the table. In my moves this isn't the only place I've seen kids getting away with disorderly activity. I'd have had my butt beat after church. Pat had the kids come apologize. The one making faces said, "Theo has something to say. Say it Theo, say it!" I said, "What do YOU say?" The girls didn't come over. One of them has had very violent tendencies, and rarely talks to adults.

 

We're generating entitled kids if we keep this up. The real world is going to be a shocker, if they choose to enter the real world of work and relationships with adults.

[brokengun]

Not to stir up trouble but are the adults white and the children black?

 

In the black community there is a lack of trust towards white people being taught to children.

 

Until this is changed we will see division in our country for a very long time.

 

[Lap top battery ran out of juice so I will now finish my thoughts...]

 

FC if these children see you has a white authority figure you may never be able to reach them even if you give them stuff/money.

 

This the sad state that our country is in today. I agree with your concerns about the future of these children but to break this social conditioning may be next to impossible.

[FC]

Pat is 70-ish and has adopted somewhere around 5 kids in her life. Right now she has 3 in the house. The kids at church are 2/3 or more black. They get picked up for the most part since the parents don't bring them. Most are friendly enough. There's always the racial undercurrent with the whites and blacks- often it's below the surface. Supposedly we'll have an elders' meeting to discuss this. It won't be a pleasant thing. One elder wrote saying that if he didn't know me he would think me angry and bitter. Brought up military, which I figured would happen, plus the need to correct in love. Well, love or not, I'm not taking this anymore. I doubt Jesus would have been perceived and loving when he made the whip out of cords. I'm going to be direct and not back down because things would go back to the way they have been.

[karlunity]

Best find another church.
The concept since the "Summer Hill" movement in the 60s is to let the kids do their own thing and explore THEIR reality.
What would THEIR version of a PC Jesus do?
You will be seen as a dinosaur. I was.
As to the black and white thing.it is true racism works both ways. I once told a black 6 year old to sit down in the school yard. He was taking the other kids toys, not the end of the world, all little kids have to learn how to get along in school, but his reply was interesting. he looked up at me and said "You are a mean white man." Not a mean man but a mean white man.
I said "true sir, go sit down, when you promise to play fair, raise your hand and you can get back in the game."
Took about 10 minutes, little kids can be stubborn, but he raised his hand and went back to play. Had him in my class years later turned out to be a good kid...wise guy..but a decent kid.
From what I hear now, you would not be able to say "Sit down" ..you would have to send the kid to the office, write a referral, call the parents have a conference, perhaps call in the councilor. PC ism gone mad.
As to cutting in front of the food line, unless the teacher is watching and makes the cutter goes to the back of the line, that is kid SOP.
They are always hungry and will just happen to find a friend at, or close, to the head of the chow line "just to talk to".

Parents and worse grandparents just DONT wanna hear this. They want "BAD" kids nailed to the cross, but THEIR kids or grand kids who do that same bad thing..."Well, they are just kids."

I can tell you hours of "Not MY kid" or "Never MY grandkid stories.

karl

[FC]

I had a very frank and somewhat tense exchange with the pastor before the service. He's a good man, but we don't see things the same way. I'm military, and he's a special ed teacher. I told him I hadn't decided whether to leave. I understand his viewpoint, but don't share it. He said he talked to the lesbian and she agreed to leave that lifestyle.

 

Barbara talked a long time today on the way to pick up stuff from the auction in Columbia. Something good might come out of this. Her idea is that a guy from the church and I teach guy stuff to the boys one Saturday per month. Also, for us to talk about our careers. I'm willing if they are. Her take is that they will see another side of me, and will gain from the experience. If we can pull it off, I have to agree. Pastor and Barbara talked on the phone. He thinks it's a good idea.

[cougar69]

You know, this reminds me of a little non-denomations church that my Mom & Dad start going to back in the 60`s. They like the pastor & he liked them. He would come to the house a couple to times a month for a visit. After about 6 months on one of his visit, he ask my Dad what he did for a living. My Dad replied that he was a plant super at a distillery. The pastor quickly made an excuse that he had to see other people & left. After that he dropped my Mon & Dad like a hot potato & never had anything to say to them anymore. Needless to say they quit going to the church.

[karlunity]

Special Ed teachers as a rule come in two types: Teachers and Educators.

A. Teachers: Ok kid so you have problems, so does everyone, let's go to work and fix them. They set very high standards and are among the best teachers in the profession.

B: Educators: Let us move at YOUR pace the important thing is that you feel good about your self , you poor underprivileged victim of an unjust world. The Progressive "Educator" is among the worst in the profession.

karl

 

(Check your mail)

[FC]

Pastor hates the push to only give positive feedback to kids. I'm glad of that.

Mauserman, that's pretty crummy. Know what's funny? I bought a neat oak bar about a year ago. I pulled out the French doors and installed it in the opening b/w the living room and the dining room. With LED lights and stained glass it's pretty sharp! I have some wine several times per week. I only like the sweet, cheap stuff like moscato and white zinfandel. Pastor doesn't like the alcohol thing, but he understands, "It is not what enters the mouth and goes to the dung heap that defiles the man". It's an American sin. Yeah, lots of lives wrecked by alcohol, but if that's all you have to say of yourself as a Christian, "I don't drink or chew, or run with girls that do", your faith is pretty shallow.

[karlunity]

Oh..

We got a "chicken cooked in wine!!!" See if you can recall who on what tv show said that!!!!!!!

Never had anything against taking a drink or several as long as you behave as a gentleman is expected to...and go to work the next day. I know some very nasty even vile folk who would never drink or smoke.

 

karl

[FC]

I don't recall any show saying wine for cooking chicken. Before the 60s?