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Military Firearm Restoration Corner

Is Anyone Interested In Doing There Own Work Anymore?


bubbamauser

How many people would be interested in the procedures and steps to do their own work?  

65 members have voted

  1. 1. Are you more interested in doing your sporterizing and gunsmithing yourself or having some one do it for you?

    • I come here for how to help and experience from other members in performing gunsmithing my self
      63
    • a perfect final product is more importand than DIY to me
      2


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I have been going through some of the recent posts and am starting to see a trend toward recommending work that people would glady post directions and their experience performing a few years back now being pushed into the realm of professional only projects. I'm interested in your opinion because the only reason I have a lathe and can use it a little bit ,weld and so on is because of what I started to learn on this board a few years back and all of your recomendations. I am greatful for what I have learned in a relatively short period of time and I think other's would like the same opportunity. I have less experience than the senior members here and personally like their work and aspire to it, so I feel a little uncomfortable posting right after them that something is manageable and here are the steps to do it after they post it should be done by a professional.

 

I need to know what other members think

 

Thanks,

 

Roy

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Roy

 

I think that I've taken notice of what you are talking about and you know that I'm MISTER D I Y.

 

If I'm reading into your comments correctly, you are seeing this as a permanent shift in direction.

At this point all I see is that a few more folks are either skiddish about attempting to do bolt handles

and the like or, they lack the tools (welder) . I'm not all or nothing when it comes to sporterizing.

Everyone has their own skill set. Do what you can and farm out the rest is fine with me.

 

If you think about it long and hard enough, each and every one of us stops doing his own work

at some point and marries the work of someone else to his own.

A few do but, how many mill their own scope mounts. No one builds their own scope.

Few carve their own stock from a tree, most will buy a stock from someone else.

Does anyone make their own trigger or do they buy one from Bold or Timney.

 

Relax, go with the flow.

Maybe when you get back to sporterizing more for yourself, you will add your sporterizing 'vibe' to

the great continuum for others to tune in to.

 

Craig

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Some of us are here to learn and share, others are here to make money. Make your own inferences as to which camp pushes hiring out the work.

 

A few threads back, I made a comment about niche artists. I stand by that comment. A semi-articulate individual with a tig set up, and little other talent, lambasted me for stating that forged bolts had their place. My comments defending forged bolts and myself was deleted for no apparent reason beyond the niche artists defending one another. Do the niche artists do what they do well? Yes they do, but overall, they certainly are not cranking out guild quality work.

 

You may be able to chamber with run out in the low tenths. You may be able to checker like Monte Kennedy. You may have a caustic bluing system that works like a jewel. You may be able to machine safeties, scope bases, barrel bands, and trigger guards. But, if you do not own a tig set up, you had better farm out having a bolt handle welded on, or the rifle will be less than pig poop.

 

You are not going to get a whole lot of people to offer their help or opinion if they are going to be ganged up on by those seeking to make money off the members. It's a good thing I never thought life was a popularity contest.

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I'm not trying to split hairs, all the parts I could reasonably buy I did on my first project (scope rings mounts reamer (Ebay) bolt handle ) but if I was not encouraged to try to do things my self I would have never improved or moved on to bigger things. I remember a post on how to chamber a barrel with a ratchet extension and the procedures for doing it. I welded my first bot handle due to a link to a post by a "Mad Jack" that explained every aspect of the process.

 

The encouragement of the members of this board is why I tried to do alot of things and I hope Tinker is right and this direction is temporary because it would be really sad if its not.

 

Roy

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I have been going through some of the recent posts and am starting to see a trend toward recommending work that people would glady post directions and their experience performing a few years back now being pushed into the realm of professional only projects. I'm interested in your opinion because the only reason I have a lathe and can use it a little bit ,weld and so on is because of what I started to learn on this board a few years back and all of your recomendations. I am greatful for what I have learned in a relatively short period of time and I think other's would like the same opportunity. I have less experience than the senior members here and personally like their work and aspire to it, so I feel a little uncomfortable posting right after them that something is manageable and here are the steps to do it after they post it should be done by a professional.

 

I need to know what other members think

 

Thanks,

 

Roy

 

Wow, I hide offline for a few days and this is what I come back to?

 

If you WANT to do the work and have the tools and perhaps more importantly the time, then have at it. There is great satisfaction is being able to say you did something yourself. Some folks feel it is more important than having "guild quality' work. Others feel a show piece is more important. I personally don't see that the two are mutually exclusive. However, for safety's sake, farming out work may sometimes be the more prudent choice. Sometimes it makes more economic sense, and sometimes it's worth doing if only do get a first hand look at how something should be done. I think each individual needs to make this call based on what's important to them.

 

All professionals went through a learning curve, they weren't always as adept at their tasks as they are now. I certainly wasn't.

 

But I did appreciate those that had the talent posting pics of their work so I has something to aspire to.

 

I've also found in my various careers that those with the least amount of experience often had some of the best ideas. They aren't yet trained to ONLY think of things in one way.

 

If you enjoy doing the work then have at it and screw anyone that berates or belittles you. At the same time, anytime you post a pic or ask for opinions on the internet you are opening yourself up to some extent.

 

We all form opinions (prejudices) based on our experiences that are often hard to overcome. And sometimes people just don't like what you have to say. As with most things you can ask ten gunsmiths how to do something and get ten different answers.

 

I think that sporterizing has died down for several reasons, time of year, economy, lack of cheap imports. Five years ago everyone was selling cheap mausers. Today good actions are harder to find and the good ones cost more. Heck, the bad ones cost more too. This cool down seems to be reflected by both Miday and Brownells cutting back on the number of tools, fixtures, replacement parts they carry. There are far more products available for AR's, 700, and 10/22's because the demand is greater.

 

But, there will always be those that will want to do it themselves. Kudos to them.

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But, there will always be those that will want to do it themselves. Kudos to them.

 

Z,

 

Are you saying this board is not geared toward do it yourselfers anymore?

 

I am interested in what you feel this site is.

 

 

Thanks,

 

Roy

 

No, I'm saying that in the American tradition some people will will want to be able to do things themselves without having to depend on others.

 

On the whole however for the reasons I listed there are fewer sporterizers hanging out on boards, not just this one. With the exception of the Remington 798 there are no new mausers being built, most were built over 60 years ago and the imports have slowed to a trickle.

 

Seems to me though that there are plenty here who are still building their own rifles and a good many that are interested in doing so and still others that want a Mauser hunting rifle but may just want to get ideas on how to go about getting one.

 

Seems to me that every year we experience a slow down. Given that many folks have taken quite a beating over the last year economically speaking its not hard to imagine that sporterizing whether DIY or farmed out would slow.

 

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I think that there has been a tread towards recommending other peoples work, particularly with bolt handles as these seem to be difficult part to get right (for me). I have used and recommended the services of several members and probably will again.

That said, I have also invested THOUSANDS of dollars in machinery and tooling since I joined this group in '03 or '04, so I that I can do more of the work myself.

I do realize that not everyone can afford machinery or has a place to do put it. It’s probably not feasible to buy a lathe and a TIG welder if you live in an apartment or are fixing up 1 or 2 old Mausers.

 

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bubbamauser,

 

In my own experience I'm just too busy right now. I'm building a house, changed jobs which has kept me busier and have a few other things on the burner, one of which is number 5 child, a boy in Jan. These things have slowed me down for the present.

 

The point about milsurps drying up is valid. Not as many good mausers in my area.

 

Aside from that, I'm seeing a change in my goals. I'm starting to think about quality vs having a bunch of guns. I'm starting to lean toward having fewer guns that I'm proficient at using. I still want to build a few along the way and will likely keep building my own stocks. However, I'll likely use FN or Husqvarna commercial actions and go for a higher end rifle. I'm just not set up to do the metal work though.

 

I do hate seeing this and other sites slow down from lack of activity. It leaves the feeling that an era is passing..................

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5 years or so ago mausers were pouring in i bought 15 turks and 5 vz 24 .my inlaws keep saying just go to walmart and get one

ready to go...it wasn"t the rifle i wanted it was the SKILLS ...are my rifles world class..no...but i try to make the next one better then the last one..good gunsmiths are fewer and fewer,just can"t make a living at it...now it looks like diy is on the way out...even that is costing to much...what little i have learned i have learned from this site..

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i think alot of it is getting over the fear that you will mess up or ruin your gun. then alot of people just don't haver the time or equipment to do it right. right now i don't have a lathe or a mill so i have to farm out anything requiring those. i have about 10 years experience on mills & lathes but i haven't been able to find used machines localy that i want to buy or had the money for when they come up.

also certain times of the year i have more money than time & will have other people do things that i would normaly do myself.

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I feel as though we have the best of both worlds here as far as help and advice doing it yourself or finding a source for farming out a project. I would like to see it stay that way. It has been close to 30 years since I did a re-barrel, I wouldn't consider doing myself again. After actually being in a real gun business, I lost interest in guns as a hobby and parted with most of the tools needed to do a sporter. Now that I've terminated all business interest with firearms I can actually enjoy them again as a hobby. I learned real quick I lost most of the skills I had when I was in my 20's and certainly don't want to start buying more tools again.

 

I see the eventual demise to sportorization of military rifles for the same reason Z mentioned. If triggers and a usable safety ever hit the market for Nagants we may see a bold return but until then Mausers are becoming scarce. It was thought many years ago Mauser supplies dried up and only a fool would cut up a collector's piece. Never thought I'd see the day when the Eastern Bloc opened up and flooded us with Mausers.

 

I've made several internet friends from this group and other gun related boards. Hopefully someday I'll get to shake some hands before the cancer takes me away but that isn't really likely. I'd like to see the board stay intact as is. If we get to many competing interests for the same $$ I see it falling by the way side. If a professional or advanced hobbyist is willing to pass his knowledge and skills along helping the do-it-yourselfer I see this board growing.

 

 

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Back in the late 80's when Mauser's were 400 a pop and Mosins were a rare war souvenir, you saw very little "sporterzing" that was something your dad or uncle had done back in the 50's or 60's.

When the cold war ended and all those wonderful mil sups and 3 dollar a bando ammo got here, the sport started again.

 

We all still like to work on the rifles we have, but the cost and supply of new ones has put a damper on the hobby.

 

We still like talk about and see picts of new fellas work.

 

Karl

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I have to say I agree with what almost everyone has so far, If I were building a rifle as a gift with a deadline I would run it up to Tanglewood for the bolt handle. but when I asked how to do it for the first time I got a response with directions( alot of the info from tanglewood). I don't see the direction or encouragment anymore. I also probably will have a different outlook on performing all of the work myself after I can perform all the work myself and have for a while. It has been my experience that sporterizing bolt action leads to gunsmithing to building semi's from parts kits and then to complete home builds(or incomplete :rolleyes: ) I am trying to say all the info builds on it self and is not as hard as some make it appear to be (if I can do it anyone can), if you choose to try. In the beginning I needed the information to make a decision on wether I want to try though.

 

Thanks .

 

Roy

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From my perspective as a relative newbie to building and customizing rifles, and Mausers in particular, I'm most interested in doing things myself. But I don't have the space for every tool needed, nor the money to buy them all at once. For those reasons, I'm practical - although I'm in no rush, I would like to complete the project(s) before I die, and to do that, I've farmed out some work. I'm about to farm out some more, because I recognize my limits, and know I can't do it to the standard I'd like.

 

For my first project, I've done most of the work so far, and will do most of what's left. Whenever I make a suggestion in a post about farming out work, it's because I felt I got a better value having done so, and I give my opinion based on my own experience.

 

If you want tutorials, I've read almost anything I could want to know (almost) already posted on this forum at some time or other. So maybe the reason that new "how-tos" aren't being written has to do with the fact that many of them have already been done?

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At this point in my life it is just not worth the time and effort to do some of the metalwork.

 

But I still like to play around with old rifles.

 

So it makes sense to pay someone to bend the bolt or install a barrel. It isn't that I can't do it, I have in the past, just that my free time is pulled a dozen different directions and I'm ok with paying for professional help on a project.

 

It used to be that I'd take a rifle or two down to my Dad and we would use his machine shop to do the work, but with the overtime going on where he works (hydroelectric dam) and we could just have fun working a project. Now my sister and her daughter moved back in so when I visit normally it's a lot more visiting than working on projects.

 

Maybe when I retire in 2020 (or thereabouts) I'll get back to doing it all by myself, but until then I'm ok with slowing down the pace of a project and farming out some of the work.

 

Jimro

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Back in the late 80's when Mauser's were 400 a pop and Mosins were a rare war souvenir, you saw very little "sporterzing" Karl

 

I remember in the 80's when SKS's were fetching more than a M-1. Friend of mine got one. Can't remember the exact price but it was the same amount he paid that same weekend for a WW2 German G43. There were some Mosins around then, mostly Westinghouse manufactured. They never left the states, Westinghouse made thousands only to have the Ruskys have a revolution and never pay the bill. The ones that were souvenirs from Nam got a good price at gunshows. In the 80's I de-sported a few Springfields but back then a used as issued stock sold for less than 10 bux.

 

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  • 1 year later...

The very first sentence of this post is difficult to understand, and might need to be re-worded.

 

Lizard, I have a hard time believing somebody would delete a post. It is rare that we have real issues here, and everyone behaves pretty well. There honestly has been at least one instance of a post disappearing. Actually, I got blamed for it, but I did not delete the post, nor anybody else I know of.

 

Leaders can see the future. Back eight or so years ago, sure, the guns were cheap, and we knew that would end. Men will always want to do something to their guns to make them their own- personalized, and customized. I foresee the commercial rifles of recent years as being the future objects of this customization. We have to be broad enough in our firearms interests and conversations that we remain viable 10 or 20 years from now. What is the thing that keeps people coming back? The comraderie, to be honest. If a board is all about the 20th century military firearm, its days are indeed numbered. We are more broad than that, I believe.

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Tony, I debated replying, and am still not sure I should be doing so, but here goes. One of the mods admitted that he had deleted the post. It was not lost by accident.

 

I think you are correct about the hobby moving toward commercial actions. While most of us will not be buying pre 64 model 70's to hack up, we should be looking for the good buy on PF 70's, Remington 7XX series rifles, Savages, Stevens, Rugers, etc..

 

A goodly portion of what we have learned will transfer to working on commercial actions, and we can also learn a few new skills. Early last summer, just before I tore my shop down, I rebarreled a SA Rem 700. It is one of the nicest pieces of machine work I have ever done. I may not have done as much work to it as a 98 requires, but it was quite enjoyable.

 

Anyway, thanks for what you do. LL

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Rod, this is what I recommend with fights- move it to, "Them are fighting words". That way folks are put into the ring to duke it out. If somebody doesn't want to see the fight, they don't go to that forum. It works pretty well.

Get rid of you? Nah.

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Just put a dagger in the middle of the sand pit and let 'em fight it out. Heh.

 

I'll tell ya, fighting via keyboard is just plain silly. Why all the fuss? I can type until my fingers bleed and I won't change someone's mind or views. Waste of effort on both sides. It's a matter of focusing on positives and being very forgiving on flubs.

 

Taking anything someone types as absolute is a fallacy; you can use all the damn "smiley's" you want, but MOST folks are more complex than that. Those that are truly THAT transparent scare the hell out of me.

 

Nothin' to see here... Just move along, folks.

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I have noticed most of the same things the economy may have some thing to do with it so may our comander in chief.But building mausers has slowed down. I havent taken the time to take pics of anything that I have been working on been using my spare time to hunt and work and not fight with photobucket to post pics. I still check in here regularly to see whats going on and to see if there any new pics and am glad to see there are some new members working on projects. I have a few that i am working on and will make an effort to get my photobucket account updated so i can post pics again and show some off some of what I have learned since first visiting this site.

 

James

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Are you having problems with Photobucket? I've thought it pretty easy to use.

Yes but i think it has some thing to do with the fact that i am on an apple computer.

 

james

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