WoodyP Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 Does anyone here know how to tell if a small ring 98 action with most of the markings missing, is a large or small thread dia.? I have one that I don't want to pull the barrel on to ck the thread diameter. Thanks, Woody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z1r Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 I fit is standard length and the left side rail is not stepped then it is a SR L. thread action. If it's stepped, then it is small thread. IF it is intermediate length, then it is small ring. this all assumes it is a military action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodyP Posted March 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 I fit is standard length and the left side rail is not stepped then it is a SR L. thread action. If it's stepped, then it is small thread. IF it is intermediate length, then it is small ring. this all assumes it is a military action. THANKS, Woody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odies dad Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 delete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron J Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 I fit is standard length and the left side rail is not stepped then it is a SR L. thread action. If it's stepped, then it is small thread. IF it is intermediate length, then it is small ring. this all assumes it is a military action. I'm confused as usual. Are there small ring (body, not threads) 98's with a step on the side rail? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinkerfive Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 I'm confused as usual. Are there small ring (body, not threads) 98's with a step on the side rail? Yes I think that the 'step / no step' definition is a bit confusing. I was just looking at a small ring large thread 98 and there is a small step in the left side. Others may not have it, the one I was looking at does. The thing to remember is that when you say 'small ring' you are talking about the outer diameter of the receiver over the barrel threads. A small ring 98 will generally have the same approximate diameter as a pre 98 action. My example was 1.33" Vs the 1.4" of a large ring. Maybe a stepless left side will measure under 1.33. I just don't have one of those to measure. I hope this clears up your confusion Ron Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z1r Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 I'm confused as usual. Are there small ring (body, not threads) 98's with a step on the side rail? No. No small ring, large thread Mausers with the stepped left rail But, the g33/40 and vz33 are small ring small thread and have the step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z1r Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Yes I think that the 'step / no step' definition is a bit confusing. I was just looking at a small ring large thread 98 and there is a small step in the left side. Others may not have it, the one I was looking at does. The thing to remember is that when you say 'small ring' you are talking about the outer diameter of the receiver over the barrel threads. A small ring 98 will generally have the same approximate diameter as a pre 98 action. My example was 1.33" Vs the 1.4" of a large ring. Maybe a stepless left side will measure under 1.33. I just don't have one of those to measure. I hope this clears up your confusion Ron Craig The small ring, std length 98's with large threads do not have a step on the left. the receiver ring and left side wall are the same diamter. Unlike the standard 98 which drops off from the front ring to the sidewall. The Small ring Mexican lacks this step as do all the true small ring mausers (pre-98's). The G33/40 and the vz33 have the step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinkerfive Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 The small ring, std length 98's with large threads do not have a step on the left. the receiver ring and left side wall are the same diamter. Unlike the standard 98 which drops off from the front ring to the sidewall. The Small ring Mexican lacks this step as do all the true small ring mausers (pre-98's). The G33/40 and the vz33 have the step. So then are you saying that the one I was looking a that measures 1.33" is still a large ring when others measure 1.4"? I was thinking that the ultimate definition of small Vs large ring would be an actual measurement of the ring. What might be the ring diameter of one without the step? Sorry, this is one of those things that my mind needs an 'absolute' thing like a measurement to resolve the difference. I only have the one example. I was calling it a 'small ring' because of the measurement. Tinker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z1r Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Rather than try to describe this in words why don't you post a pic? I've never seen a small ring mauser of any flavor from the factory that had a step from the sidewall to the receiver ring. The exception being of course the vz33 and g33/40's I mentioned previously. I have a small ring mauser that measures 1.330" too, it has a step from the sidewall to the receiver ring. Why, simple, it used to be a large ring. For what it's worth, I just measured about a dozen small ring mausers, 8 mexicans, and 4 pre-98's, the ring diameter ranged from 1.290" to 1.315". Not that one can't measure larger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron J Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Thanks. It makes sense to me now. I see it as the group of true small rings, small thds non 98 style recvrs (94's, 95's, 96's and the like). Then the std 98 large ring, large thds (VZ-24 style) and this oddball group in between that have small rings, some large thd - some small thd, but never the less styled as a 98, meaning cock on open, large 98 style shroud and so on. We 're these a design between the smalls and standards or were they made that way specifically? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z1r Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Yes, true small rings are supposed to be the pre-98's (cock on close, small ring receiver 1.300" ish, and small ring threads. Then we have the small ring 98's. These have all the 98 improvements but fall into three catagories as I see it. The first small ring 98's were the Kar 98's introduced in 1908 prior to WWI. An attempt at a lighter carbine. The were standard length 98's but they simply reduced the front ring diameter to 1.300"ish. These retained the large ring threads. This was not a great idea because these had the bad habit of becoming take down rifles. Next came the Mexican 1910 which was intermediate length and small ring diameter. It had small ring threads. This was later improved to the model 36. Lastly, the Czechs came up with the vz33 in about 1933. It was a standard length 98 of small ring dimension. It had small ring threads. It also had lightening cuts which consisted of, among other cuts, a stepped left sidewall like that found on the standard 98. Once Germany took over they produced it as the G33/40. These are the only two "small ring 98's" that have the stepped left sidewall. All the others retain the profile of the pre-98 small rings in that there is no transition (step) from the front ring to the sidewall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinkerfive Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Rather than try to describe this in words why don't you post a pic? I've never seen a small ring mauser of any flavor from the factory that had a step from the sidewall to the receiver ring. The exception being of course the vz33 and g33/40's I mentioned previously. I have a small ring mauser that measures 1.330" too, it has a step from the sidewall to the receiver ring. Why, simple, it used to be a large ring. For what it's worth, I just measured about a dozen small ring mausers, 8 mexicans, and 4 pre-98's, the ring diameter ranged from 1.290" to 1.315". Not that one can't measure larger. I wasn't trying to get the left side necessarily but photos of the action are already posted. Just scroll down to my earlier post " Now With Photos; What Action Is This" Tinker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z1r Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Looks like a Kar98a most likely. I have the later polish version of the same action. Your's doesn't have a step in it on the left side. I posted about the step/ no step in response to the question as to how can you identify if a small ring 98 receiver is small thread or large without removing the barrel. Well, the only way I know how is basd on my reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rojelio Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Mike, how is the '36 Mex an improvement over the 1910's? Is it made out of better steel or have better heat treatment? Or is it the better gas venting? I have some of both and actually prefer the 1910's. They seem to be a little tighter/smoother actions than the 36's. It may just be the examples that I have. Just wondering. Rojelio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donmarkey Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 They have some better gas venting features like the bolt face notch and extractor vent. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z1r Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 Mike, how is the '36 Mex an improvement over the 1910's? Is it made out of better steel or have better heat treatment? Or is it the better gas venting? I have some of both and actually prefer the 1910's. They seem to be a little tighter/smoother actions than the 36's. It may just be the examples that I have. Just wondering. Rojelio I like the 36 cocking piece but otherwise I prefer the 1910 myself too. but, I wouldn't say no to a 36 either, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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