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Sailormilan2

Waiting To Get 2 Rifles Now.

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I decided I needed to spend part of my Income Tax refund on a couple of guns. Century Arms had their Mini Mausers on sale last month, $360 each, so I ordered two(plus a 3rd for BradD). One in 223 Rem and one in 22 Hornet for me and another in 22 Hornet for BradD.

Guns finally showed up last week and I paid the bail money for mine yesterday. Century was very slow to process the order, it took almost a month. Now, I have to wait till the the release date.........May 4. CA has a 10 day wait to pick up a firearm. We call it being in Jail here. :D But that gives me a chance to load some 223s and get some 22 Hornet shipped from Midway.

Very similar to my Zastava made 22s. They look like shrunken larger caliber rifles, complete with iron sights. Though the wood is rather bland, stained, but no finish unless it is a very thin oil finish. My 22s have better wood. I may try and strip the stain out and refinish as one stock has a bit of interesting grain. I may have to touch up the checkering. They come with European style flat checkering, which I don't care for. If I can't improve the looks much, I will head down to Richard's MicroFit in Los Angeles and hand pick out a couple of stocks from his stash on the shelf.

I've located extra mags for the 22 Hornet, and BradD is going to order a case of 22 Hornet ammo which we will split.

I will post pics upon release from jail. I just hope they are as accurate as my Zastava 22s, which are very accurate rifles.

While they are virtually identical, the 223 Rem receiver is D&T'd, while the receiver for the 22 Hornet is grooved.

I was rather surprised to find that the 22 Hornets were number consecutively.

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I'm really interested in the 22 hornet, I hope you post lots of pics.

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Okay, here are some pics. I will take more when I get better light, and the guns cleaned up a bit.

My Zastava made 22 LR and 17 HMR are on top for comparison. Next are the Mini Mausers in 22 Hornet and 223 Rem. I was surprised that the 22 Hornet has a longer barrel than the 223 Remington.

Stocks are okay, though I am not impressed with the stain that was used. I may try to strip the stain and try it again. Bottom stock has one of the worst staining jobs I have ever seen. One stock has some decent grain, and may just need some Tung Oil. Stocks have European style flat point checkering, and both have spacers installed which should make pillar bedding easy. I think the wood is walnut. Bluing is very good, a deep, dark blue.

I think I did okay at $360 each.

 

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Why does the 22 hornet mag stick out so far?

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It is a detachable magazine. Single stack, so it sticks out the bottom.

I now have both stocks stripped of stain. The one on the 22 Hornet has some very nice grain. Lots of figure along the bottom of the stock. The other one very plain, and will need to be stained. I have some stain I can use. One is Early American, and the other is Special Walnut. I believe that Special Walnut has more red in it than standrd walnut, while Earlty American is more of a tannish color. It looks nice. I used it on a Garand stock to get ride of some sap wood and it came out looking good. Both stocks have a grip cap of some slightly darker wood.

I think I may try to touch up the checking points, to give them a somewhat sharper appearance.

 

Here is a photo of a walnut stock with Early American stain on it.

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Looking at your image of the 4 rifles, it appears that the .223 and Hornet actually have different sized receivers (the Hornet being significantly shorter). Is this correct? I would have thought that they used the same action. I do remember an earlier post stating that the Hornet had a grove for tip-off mounts while the .223 was more conventional.

 

It appears that the Hornet action was designed from the ground up specifically for the Hornet and nothing else. Very surprising.

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The receiver for the 223 Rem is threaded, while the receiver on the 22 Hornet has a cross pin in it. Meaning the barrel is pressed into place. The two receivers are identical in length, and size. Barrel length on the 223 Rem is 20", almost 22" for the 22 Hornet. Rifles have Mauser style bolt stops and ejectors, though smaller in size. The ejector on the 22 Hornet is longer, and the slot it fits into the left side of the receiver is also longer.

The chamber on the 223 Rem is very tight. I have some dummy rounds I made up to use for testing, and while they chambered just fine in my old Mini 14 and Winchester Featherweight (when I had it) they are a very tight fit in this rifle. Very similar to the 22 chamber on my Zastava made 22 LR.

There is a difference in the bolts too. Thye bolt for the 22 Hornets lacks the full length guide rib that the 223 Remington has.

The stock on the 22 Hornet has some nice grain, once I got the stain out. However, on the 223 Rem it is very plain. I am staining it now, using Early American color, though I am not sure I will like the results. Which means a trip to Richards MicroFit next month. Though I did get in contact with Dakota Cliff, stock maker who sells on eBay, and if I send him the stock he can duplicate it. I may do that. I would really like one stock in English Walnut or Maple. Lighter wood with the very dark blue will look good. I don't care for the rollover style cheek piece, so that may come off.

As of now, all I have done to the stock on the 22 Hornet is strip it twice, steel wool it to smooth out the raised grain, and apply one coat of TruOil.

 

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.....Rifles have Mauser style bolt stops and ejectors, though smaller in size..........

 

What about the extractor? From the top view you incnluded, it looks like there is no Mauser-type extractor.

 

I have been shopping for one of these in 7.62x39 but the best I have seen is $415 so far. I checked CAI and it seems they only sell to dealers. :(

 

At least there is some hope for the wood. The photos I have seen on J&G, CAI and Impact Guns make them look like there is no finish.

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None of the Mini-Mark X rifles have "Mauser" extractors; rather, the extractor is more akin to a Sako, fitting in a groove along the bolt body adjacent to the right locking lug. There is no controlled-round feeding.

 

The 7.62X39 would be a nice ranch rifle. My recollection is that a 1-10" twist was used on the 7.62 barrel; that should probably be a 1-14" or 1-16" twist instead. I've never seen decent reports of accuracy from the 7.62 model. My .223 is fairly accurate, providing under 1" groups with RL-7 and 50gr Speer SP bullets.

 

I think the 7.62 receiver would be a nice base to build a 7.62 with a proper twist, or a dandy 6mm PPC gun.

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The guide rib rotates and acts just like the claw extractor does on a Standard 98 bolt. I've included 2 pics of the guide rib, and one pic of the Hornet extractor. Which is identical to the 223 Rem extractor, but a bit longer on the front. The opening in the receiver is not as big on the 22 Hornet as the opening for the 223 Rem. This means the rear bridge is longer on the 22 Hornet. The 22 Hornet receiver might be a bit stiffer

 

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Here are two pohtos of the 223 Remington. Stock is stained, but no TruOil finish on it. I ended up stripping the Early American stain, and going with Golden Pecan stain. All the walnut stains make the stock very grey in color. Stock already was greyish. Only one stain did not have a lot of grey in it, and that was Antique Walnut. It had a bit of red, which would have worked, but my stain also have satin Poly in it. I still may go this route. I am going to put one coat of TruOil on and see what happens.

 

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Here are two photos of the 22 Hornet. Basically finished. Scope is mounted a bit higher than I would like, but that was necessary because with lower mounts the bolt was hitting the scope. I still need to bed the action. Barrel was pretty much free floated, though there was contact part way down on the left side. Same with the 223 Remington.

 

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The 7.62X39 would be a nice ranch rifle. My recollection is that a 1-10" twist was used on the 7.62 barrel; that should probably be a 1-14" or 1-16" twist instead. I've never seen decent reports of accuracy from the 7.62 model. My .223 is fairly accurate, providing under 1" groups with RL-7 and 50gr Speer SP bullets.

 

I think the 7.62 receiver would be a nice base to build a 7.62 with a proper twist, or a dandy 6mm PPC gun.

 

 

A 1-10" twist is way too fast for the 123 gr bullets the 7.62x39 round uses. That would be more proper for the 7.62x54R Russian round that uses very long 154 gr steel core bullets. I agree that a 14" or 16" twist would be better. Somebody probably doesn't want to change the machinery they use to make the 30 cal barrels.

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Thanks, guys, for the information on the extractor. VERY helpful!

 

It still seems to be a substantial extractor in its own right and the guide rib fills the secondary role of the old-style extractor, so this is not a put-off after all.

 

I have to believe that these guys shot their pics of full-sized actions, which is misleading to Mauser people who have not actually handled the Mini-Mausers. In the pics, you can see the extractor and collar. It has been difficult to discern from most photos I have seen. http://www.impactguns.com/zastava-m85-inmini-mauserin-bolt-action-rifle-cal-762x39mm-ri1975-n.aspx

 

It seems CZ also produced some Mark X receivers for someone in Manchester, England, while the bolts and bottom-metal do NOT appear to be of CZ origin.

http://www.gunauction.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=9462361

 

I wouldn't want one that has been ground like this one (top of the receiver and barrel) but I'd eat a bucket of live worms for the bottom metal - IF it fit my 527 and would feed. I have not looked, but I'll bet there are no feed rails in the CZ, give that it uses the detachable magazine. I very much dislike the detachable magazine as compared to an integral box. The two brand new CZ 527 magazines I bought were not worthy of a CZ or a Zastava - they were that rough and crude and neither would work at all out of the box.

 

The CZ527 "Mini-Mauser" DOES have a minature claw extractor, but since I bought my 527 .223 Varmint and decided I also needed a 7.62x39 Carbine, the price has gone up by about two hundred bucks! That's in less than six months. Needless to say, this is why I have been looking for a Zastava-produced Mini-Mauser. I probably should buy a spare 527 extractor while they are still being made but they probably want $75 bucks for one. :blink:

 

I love my CZ, but the detachable mag and the prices they are starting to bring put buying another into doubt and out of reach. I have wanted a Zastava since the late eighties or early nineties, when I first heard of them. IF I snag one, I will keep a .358 or 6.5 conversion in the back of my head for possible a future project, but the 7.62x39 offers a lot of potential for the way I wouild use it anyway.

 

Now, if they would only make these to accept stripper clips!! :D

 

This has been an extremely informative thread and I certainly appreciate the time and detail that has gone into it.

 

Thanks.

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The 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC, .30 Walker, and a host of other X39-based cartridges would certainly be fun with the 7.62 action.

 

I haven't had a breakage with either of my two rifles, but I have seen reports that the Mini-Mark X extractors can break. With the current influx of rifles now arriving, it may not be an issue, but when Interarms stopped importing the actions and the Zavasta operation making the rifles originally shut down, replacements were expensive or impossible to get.

 

That photo link you provided it odd. It appears to be a factory-original rifle, but the top of the receiver does look like it was ground. My Interarms models are round, not ground at all. Perhaps early model were ground like that to take standard M98 bases?

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......That photo link you provided it odd. It appears to be a factory-original rifle, but the top of the receiver does look like it was ground. My Interarms models are round, not ground at all. Perhaps early model were ground like that to take standard M98 bases?

 

Good question on the bases.

 

Is yours a Zastava or CZ receiver? Notice that the one in the link has the CZ logo. I assume it was only assembled in Manchester. The bolt/bottom metal are not CZ, so whoever was assembling them was assembling them from parts of varying origins. May explain why some people don't know Serbia from the Czech Republic. I have actually seen some pics of exquisite Mini-Mark Xs and have seen pics of some that were pretty course. After working over a Rossi '92 over the past year, the current CAI Zastava doesn't look too bad.

 

If I find one myself, I will lay up some spare parts, given that the supply of these has been so sketchy over the years.

 

Sailorman did a nice job on the wood, so there is hope for that too. May not have to buy a plastic stock when I find mine.

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You can try looking at Numrich (gunpartscorp.com) and Sarco Inc(sarcoinc.com) for bottom metal to see if it fits.

What is interesting, is that Zastava actualy makes(made) this little gun in a 22/250, though I think it only holds 4 rounds.

 

http://e-sarcoinc.com/mk10mauser.aspx

 

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Products.aspx?catid=13604

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Zavasta and "CZ" are the same.

 

Both Manchester, England, and Alexandria, VA, were distribution sites for Interarms.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Cummings

 

 

The only Mausers that I'm aware of that were made abroad and assembled in England were the BSA rifles using Santa Barbara, Spain actions. Zavasta fully manufactures and assembles its firearms in Serbia; they offer complete rifles, pistols, and military weapons:

 

http://zastava-arms.rs/cms/index.php?id=177

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You can try looking at Numrich (gunpartscorp.com) and Sarco Inc(sarcoinc.com) for bottom metal to see if it fits.......

 

Thanks. I had been been to both as soon as I saw that integral magazine screwed to the bottom of a 527. :D

 

I looked at my CZ today. Straight and narrow path from the single stack mag well to the inside of the reciever. It would take a sculptor to rearange the metal in the bottom of my CZ's action to accommodate feeding from an integral magazine.

 

At this point, I will put up with the detachable mags n my CZ but I will be on the lookout for a Zastava, whether it has a Yugo or Czech receiver. I'll take either.

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Zavasta and "CZ" are the same.......

 

I see what you are saying about the distribution centers - both Manchester and Alexandria are listed on the receiver. Makes sense now.

 

As far as CZ and Zastava being the same, I can't quite get on board with that one. They are two different companies in two different countries producing two significantly different versions of "Mini-Mausers."

 

What each were doing, or from whom Interarms was getting "Mini-Mausers" twenty or thirty years ago may be another matter, especially during the war. That was what put this skids under my own plans to acquire one.

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My apologies.

 

I was thinking that you were referring to the monogram, or proof mark, "ZCZ" (for Zavodi Crvena Zastava).

 

You are referring to CZ USA, BRNO, or CZ.

 

I understand that CZ/BRNO also makes a fine line of mini-Mausers with actual controlled feed, non-rotating extractors, and single stack magazines. I cannot comment on them, as I don't own one. As far as I'm aware, there are not associated with or attached to Zastava in any way, except that actual 98 Mauser parts are generally interchangeable. I would not expect the CZ and the ZCZ mini-mauser to interchange parts in any manner.

 

If you want a .223 mini-Mauser with a controlled-feed extractor and a flush, staggered-column magazine, Kimber is the only way to fly.

 

For a true adventure, you could always get a Remington 700 .223 blind-magazine and parts and open the bottom metal of the CZ action to match a Remington. The magazine has integral lips. Modifying such a beautiful rifle would be evil I think. And I don't know that it would actually work. But it would be an adventure.

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My apologies..........You are referring to CZ USA, BRNO, or CZ.......

 

Yeah, THAT "CZ!" :D

 

No apology necessary - we just weren't on the same page. You did have me scratching my head though - never know who bought whom these days.

 

The CZ-USA :D "Mini-Mauser" is a VERY nice rendition. I have the .223 Varmint. I stole it. When I ordered it, the price was $493. The next day it was over $700!!! They sent it to me for $493 and never made a peep. They can be had for around $600, but the Carbines - the short, iron-sighted 7.62x39 or .223 version, is almost $700 now - before shipping and transfer.

 

That got me to thinking about the Zastava, which I was unaware was even still being made, at least since Remington dropped them. I prefer the integral magazine anyway, and while the CZ 527 is nice, it's not $700 nice. I better just grab one of the Zastavas from CAI. I am worried they are going to be unavailable again.

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The only Mausers that I'm aware of that were made abroad and assembled in England were the BSA rifles using Santa Barbara, Spain actions. Zavasta fully manufactures and assembles its firearms in Serbia; they offer complete rifles, pistols, and military weapons:

 

Many Parker-Hale receivers were made in the same facility that made Santa Barbara.

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Yes, Parker Hale is correct. I was actually thinking about PH and wrote "BSA". I've never seen or handled a controlled-feed BSA Royal action (I've only handled their Majestic/U9 derivative). I think the Royals and Majestics were actually made in England.

 

I still have three of the PH Cadet barrels stowed for a rainy day. I remember paying under $100 for the three. Although, sometimes I remember to forget.

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I consider the price of $360 (what we got the rifles for), and even the $379.87 price that they were originaly posted at, to be quite a bargain. I looked on GunBroker and everything was at starting at $450 or higher for used guns, and $600 for new Remingtons. I didn't want a Remington 799 because of their matt finish and laminated stock. Normally I don't mind laminated stocks ( have a Remington Model 5 stock for Zastava 22 LR when it gets messed up).

Give Andy a call at Century. Though they tend to be a bit slow in shipping. It took almost a month for them to process the order and ship the guns.

 

I was looking at the Mini Mausers on Gunbroker and just noticed that the Remington versions are D&T'd, not grooved like these new ones. Also, the Remingtons don't have sights installed on the barrel. None of the Remingtons have sights installed, but you pay more for the Remingtons. :blink:

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.......Remington versions are D&T'd, not grooved like these new ones. Also, the Remingtons don't have sights installed on the barrel. None of the Remingtons have sights installed, but you pay more for the Remingtons. :blink:.....

 

 

Yeah, I believe they made a similar change on the H&R single shots right after they acquired them.

 

So, you just called Century? I would commit to one if I could get it for $360. Century's site gives the impression that you have to be a dealer to see prices or place an order.

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Gentry makes a 3 position safety for those minis. I just put one on a friend of mine's .223. Made a nice improvement. That is a night and day difference in the those stocks. They look custom now instead of a factory rifle.

Don

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