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Military Firearm Restoration Corner

Mini-Lathe: Can I Watch?


diggerdanh

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I added to another post in the For Sale forum where I stated I now realize that I'm going to need to invest in a mini-lathe if I want to take this hobby to the next level. I've stuck to surplus barrels thus far and been lucky as far as headspace and such goes. But to get better and have more options available to me I need to be able to set a barrel back, thread barrels (for converting to small ring for K-Kales), face receivers, etc. I definitely don't have the room or skill for a big lathe, but I'd like to start small with a mini-lathe that will do what I need.

 

I have no machining skills, other than hand-tools, drill presses, sandblaster, etc. I'm a programmer by trade, but I'm a quick study and learn from my mistakes :).

 

I know there are several members of the board who use a mini-lathe. While I could probably eventually figure everything out from reading online, I'm more of a visual learner.

 

Ideally, I'd like to find someone close by with a good setup that I could take a look at who wouldn't mind spending a couple of hours showing me the ropes. Explain how it works, what I should look for and maybe even watch them do something like thread a barrel, face a receiver, or something similar. "Close by" is a relative term - anything within a couple of hours (I'm in SW Ohio) would be fine. I know there is a good group of guys from here in Western PA - that would be fine by me.

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I know Doble Troble uses a mini with very good results; however, if you get one, pay as little as possible because you will almost certainly outgrow it in short order.

You will suddenly find all kinds of uses for a lathe and your mini will always be just too small or under powered. And then there is the tooling to go with it----

Machining is very addicting, even more so when you add gun work to the equation.

I speak from experience because I bought my 1st lathe about 3 years and $20,000 ago :(

 

Kenny

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I know a mini won't be able to do everything and I realize that I'll eventually want bigger and better, but I'd rather start small. I've read here and other places where some guys really do a lot with their mini lathes and recommend them for beginners.

 

Milsurpcollector, you're right - there are always several big lathes listed on Craiglist around here. The problem is that I have no idea what to look for in buying a used lathe, no idea how to use it and nowhere to put it if I did get one.

 

I figure that if I start with a small(ish), cheap(ish) one I can learn the basics with it (or figure out that I'm just not cut out for it before spending too much :)) and learn its deficiencies and shortcomings and what I would need to look for in the next one I buy when I'm ready to step up.

 

I've read some recommendations here and there about which small lathes to buy and recommended sizes, but I don't want to pick one up, unbox it in the garage and stand there looking at it dumbfounded, not knowing what to do next. Headstock, tailstock, live centers - it's all greek to me :)

 

I think if I can check out someone's setup, get a quick primer on the parts and pieces, and watch them do something relatively "simple" then I'll be in a much better position to pick one out for myself and get started.

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Hi digger! I've used a minilathe effectively for years. There are some things that you just can't do with one, but it still amazes me what you can figure-out how to do on one. Military profile barrels fit nicely through the headstock (although you'll need to make a spider that requires advanced inside diameter threading).

 

I didn't have any experience before I bought mine back in 2002 at a Homier travelling show (it's the 7x12 model). It took a long time before I could face and turn a rod down to an accurate diameter. Actually it took a long time before I could get a rod mounted in a 4-jaw chuck without runout. So I've considered having my minilate as an important education. I've been on the lookout for a larger lathe for a couple of years now. I've almost bought a 12 x 36 from Harbor Freight a few times, but each time not having a clear plan to get it into my basement shop has kept me from pulling the trigger. This is another good thing about the minilathe - you can unbolt it, pick it up and move it somewhere else.

 

Once you have a lathe you figure-out that it's hard to use effectively without a metal-cutting band saw. Fortunately Harbor Freight sells a cheap one (that used to go on sale for <$200) that works well enough. You'll also need a drill press with a set of bits (get a large kit - trust me).

 

And then you need calipers, dial indicator and base (I like the magnetic kind with a switch), files, sandpaper, tool bitsand stock to work with (Online Metals has starter packs- you can get standard diameter steel rods at places like Lowes and Home Depot)

 

I kind-of purchased all these things as it became clear that I really needed them. It was a lot of stuff. I didn't buy too many guns during this period (it lasted about a year). After this year or so I actually got to the point where I could make useful tools and parts and started barrel work. An important thing about he minilathe that took me a long time to learn is that you can't take deep cuts all at once - like apparently you can get away with on larger lathes. 10 or 20 thousandths at a time is about all you can do without running into trouble.

 

Although it would be nice to see someone use a lathe before you get your hands on one, they're kind-of like PCs - everyone figures-out "their" way of using them effectivley.

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Diggerdanh I remember when I bought my lathe; its invigorating especially when you thread your first barrel and don’t screw it up.

 

My lathe is an old 16x60 south bend tool room lathe its nice but because its big its also expensive when I have to buy parts

 

 

Diggerdanh I suggest you look for a good used 9x30 or 10x30 south bend lathe.

 

A new 7x12 mini lathe will set you back $500 but you should be able to buy a good south bend for the same money

 

I was looking at anti-gun Ebay just before I posted and they had an exceptional 9x30 lathe listed with 19 hrs to go and the bid was $355

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For some reason I wasn't able to post last night so I sent a PM. I've been bitten by the lathe bug too, but have determined that the minis are too small. You'll need an absolute minimum 3/4 spindle bore if you want to run any sporter barrel through to face off the breech. I think a 9x20 is about the minimum practical size for the kinds of things you're thinking about doing.

 

This link is a pretty good one for more information on the minis, as well as generic lathe nomenclature and operation: http://www.mini-lathe.com/

 

I was googling 9x20 Jet lathes because I was going to include a link the model that I have been interested in, and in the process linked back to the mini-lathe pages that included a discussion on the 9x20s that I don't recall reading. Interesting read, albiet some of the info is a few years old... Check it out: 9x20s

 

Still not sure what I will end up with. Good luck, and keep us posted on your progress!

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i feel compelled to answer again,

 

i would see if there is an adult education program at a local highschool or tech school that you can go to at night to learn how to use a lathe, then i would go out and buy one. There is a yahoo group dedicated to the 7-12, 9-20 and 12-36" lathes. All require a little tweaking to get it to work properly. The 12-36 lathe need the least amount of work.

 

 

The big areas of wear on a lathe are the ways and the spindle. The ways are shiney bars that the saddle rides on. the way should not have gouges or wear marks. Watch for wear near the spindle a great deal of work is done there so that area wears first.

 

The next wear area is the spindle which the chuck attaches to. To check this, you mount a dial indicator on something solid and the put the plunger on a smooth area of the spindle. either inside or out. There should be no runout or less than .001. If you can, place a round bar in the spindle and see if you can get the dial indicator to move while gently lifting up or down on the spindle. There should be no movement.

 

Turn the lathe on and listen with just the spindle running there should be no grinding noise or rumbling.

 

Everthing else on the lathe is secondary to the above 2 items.

 

i would recommend the class first. Usually they are very hands on and you learn alot of machining skills that can be applied to gunsmithing.

 

 

 

 

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The spindle bore on the 9 x 20's is the same as the 7 x X series (a hair under 0.8", but you can, and I did, bore it out to 0.83" or so - you can probably go further, but I chickened-out). The 11 x 26 is very attractive because of the 1" bore and you can muscle it around without too much drama.

 

Everyone learns differently, but I submit that the only way to really become proficient with a lathe is to use one, and this requires the depth of knowledge of why things are done a certain way that can only be truly appreciated by trying a different approach, and observing the unwanted result :).

 

Just don't get an appendage tangled in the works during the learning process and you'll be ahead of the game.

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Doble troble is right the best way to learn how to use a lathe is to start operating one

 

When I bought my lathe I had never used one in my life. Yes I’ve seen lathes run and I read about using a lathe but I had never used a lathe before.

 

The South Bend Books maybe the best for the money

 

The only thing I don’t like about the low cost entry level lathes like 9x20 and even the 11x26 is the low end speed being 120-150 rpm.

 

For a first timer cutting threads it can be little un-nerving to get used to cutting threads at that speed.

 

My South Bend has a back-gear and I think the speed is 26 rpm (maybe wrong) but my point is its real slow.

 

I sometimes do internal threading if I don’t have a tap and that super slow speed sure is nice.

 

That said I’ve seen guys cut thread so fast it would scare off a first timer

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Thanks for the tip on the Adult Education classes. I had not considered it for the smallish stuff I want to do, but I think it will be a good learning experience. I was just looking into it and there are two local tech schools that offer a machine shop basics class and an advanced (gets into lathes, milling, etc) a couple nights a week for several weeks. They also have basic welding and advanced welding which I might take after the machine shop classes. My wife is currently in "going back to school" mode so I'll probably have to wait until she finishes up next fall. But I'm looking forward to it - should be fun.

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