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Military Firearm Restoration Corner

Siamese Mauser Action Mods


evylrobot

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Hello, all!

 

I'm brand-new to this website, and nearly brand-new to firearms in general, so please bear with me. I inherited three Siamese Mauser actions from my grandpa. I would safely assume that he picked them up at some point in time to build himself some custom sporters, and never got around to working with them. At this point, I think I'd like to see these projects continued.

 

Since I'm a novice on smithing, I'm looking for a good gunsmith in the Oklahoma area to take them to for a cleanup, inspection, and an estimate on working them over. Do any of you have someone that you can recommend for this type of work in my area? I am in the Oklahoma City area, and would be willing to take them pretty much anywhere within 100-miles, as long as they were the right gunsmith for the job.

 

I've been looking at rechambering to 45/70, a modified bolt handle, and scope mounts so far. What would any of you recommend for this build? I am completely open to suggestion on this deal. I'm sure that my rifle will go deer hunting with me at one time or another, as I have access to some property where there is a good area for a <150-yard shot where they like to hang out.

 

Any and all advice is welcome. Thanks in advance.

 

--Michael

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welcome to the site....i live about 90 miles south of you ,in Duncan .as for the siamese actions you have i have never handled one..

these are getting hard to find these days...they should make you a nice rifle ..the 45-70 is a good cal. for this action...

its not going to be a low cost project...can you post some pix of them?.......how much of the work are you wanting to take on

yourself ?...as for being a good smith ...i"m only a novice at it.

this is what a basic barrel will cost.. http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/...&t=11082005

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Michael, welcome to our forum. Good to have you aboard, especially bringing three Siamese 98's with you.

 

They are really good, strong actions and with enough of the right kind of work, certainly make nice rifles.

 

I've done three in 45-70 and have grown to love that ctg. Here in Cailfornia I like it for pigs. Flattens them on the first shot and usually wrecks no meat. I have two more actions just sittin' while I cogitate about them. Drag them out and do a little of the basic work and put them away again.

 

Things like getting rid of the charger hump and the barrel overhang at the front of the ring, and filling and finishing the dust cover holes, as well as drilling and tapping for scope base and trueing the action, as well as lapping the bolt lugs are all things to do before you barrel the action. And of course the bolt handle. Richards Microfit has stocks for them in a wide array of wood and prices.

 

You can also add Timney or other side safety trigger and commercial bolt shrouds (although there's a trick to that I'll tell you about if want to go that route) or a nice adjustable with no safety and the Buehler style safety.

 

As for gunsmiths, I can't think of any in the OKC area, but I mail mine to guys that I know do good work and are fair and are fairly prompt. My two favorites that I use exclusively are IT&D Custom Gun (Dave Carver) in Minerva, Ohio and our very own z1r (Mike McCabe) here on the site, he's in Colorado. You send your project, they do the work and send it back. Much cheaper than 100 miles of gas these days. They are both great to work with and nice as can be.

 

Good luck and please keep us posted on them.

 

Brad

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Welcome aboard Evyl Robot

 

You can also add Timney or other side safety trigger and commercial bolt shrouds (although there's a trick to that I'll tell you about if want to go that route) or a nice adjustable with no safety and the Buehler style safety.

Brad

 

Brad,

I'd like to know your trick with the commercial bolt shroud because the Siamese firing pin is turned 90 degrees from a standard 98.

Does Timney make a trigger for the Siamese? They are very different than a 98 also.

 

Kenny

 

 

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Any and all advice is welcome. Thanks in advance.

 

--Michael

 

Michael: Were it me... and that "sonic1" guy offered to help me.... I would most assuredly try to get on that wagon... $0.02

MV

OH yea!! Welcome.... Hang out awhile and enjoy!!

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Hey guys! I love the rate that this project is going so far! I have located a couple pieces of walnut in my personal stash (also inherited from Grandpa) that will make nice stocks. They have the grain flowing nicely through the wrist section, and everything! I'm getting so excited to bubba-ize these babies! I believe there are photo requests earlier in this thread, so here is a link to my wife's webshots account:

 

http://community.webshots.com/album/562134...vhost=community

 

There are some pretty good shots in there. I'm feeling pretty optimistic about this whole deal.

 

 

I do have another related question. Today, I was over at the 'rents place, and they broke out Grandpa's 244, that is also built on a Mauser action. I popped the bolt out, and it slipped into one of these actions like it was meant to be there. Could the action in the 244 be a M98, or would it most certainly have to be a Siamese Mauser as well? I should have taken pics of that one. It was his Leupold-scoped, indestructible, varmint gun. Everyone knows it as a varmint gun, but I bet it would take out a deer the way he had it chambered, and the fact that he loaded his own ammo. I'm sure that he probably severely overloaded those shells at times. Anyway, I'll get pics of that one next time we're over there, but what are your thoughts about the action in it?

 

OBTW, the paper that is the background on the later pics is what I have my stock drawn out on. I don't know how well you can see it, but there it is. Feedback welcome as always!

 

--Michael

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I am soooo jealous! Those are 3 nice Siamese actions.

 

You can tell by the magazines (and the scripting). The magazines are skewed forward to allow each rimmed cartridge to be forward of the next; this allows proper feeding.

 

The Siamese is based-on the M98, and dimensionally they should be close, but that 244 is probably a standard M98, and not a Siamese. You could always pull the magazine from the stock and see if it is skewed as well.

 

45/70 is neat. I think the 7.62x54 Russian round would be just as neat.

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45/70 is neat. I think the 7.62x54 Russian round would be just as neat.

 

7.62X54 russian would be much easier to make feed properly.

These are nice strong actions that are built on the Mauser system. That's where the similarity stops.

With very few exceptions no parts are interchangeable with the standard Mauser 98.

Kenny

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Thanks everybody! I have really appreciated all the input, and hope I'll get a bunch more as well! I'm getting a lot of really good ideas here. I'm ordering some books to further educate myself, and I'll definitely keep you posted along the way. A 45/70 would shoot completely differently than a 7.62x54 Russian, wouldn't it? It might even be worth building one of each, for that matter. What do you think? Maybe do one now, and make the other the next project? It looks like the 7.62x54 could custom-load for some very high-velocity shooting from these actions!

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I'm up here in NW Arkansas. There's a guy here at work that recently had a 35 Wheelen put on a Mauser 98 action, and I think he had someone local do it. If NW AR isn't too far for you, I could ask him who did it. Seems like OKC should have someone though.

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Dr. Hess,

 

It does seem like I should be able to find someone locally, doesn't it? I found a custom rifle maker in Shawnee, OK that looks promising. I have not called yet, but I think I'll give him a shout and feel him out on this deal. I would not be at all opposed to going to NW AR, though. That area is beautiful, and might make for a nice long weekend while I'm at it.

 

--Michael

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Dr. Hess,

I would not be at all opposed to going to NW AR, though. That area is beautiful, and might make for a nice long weekend while I'm at it.

 

--Michael

+1

That is Exactly what I would do!! MV

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Maybe do one now, and make the other the next project? It looks like the 7.62x54 could custom-load for some very high-velocity shooting from these actions!

 

Don't over look the 444 Marlin as a possibility in one of those actions.

 

About 15-20 years ago my group shared camp with a couple of California Elk hunters. One had an unfinished 45/70 project on a Siamese action and was the only successfull hunter out of 7 of us. He nailed it at about 150 yards via iron sights while leaning on a tree. It was a clean well placed head shot.

 

He brought the rifle unfinished with a rough stock as a back-up. He decided to carry it the first day and got lucky. He was so thrilled with his kill he after he drove to town to a meat processor. He came back with plenty of beer and KFC for everybody. His rifle kind of re-newed my interest in sporters again after I lost interest over some failed projects I tried on Spansih 98's. Sure wish I had scarfed up a few Siamese rifles when they were cheap and being sold as wall hangers.

 

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Hey everybody!

 

I called and talked to this guy in Shawnee, OK. He was very informative, and really personable. Speaking with him kind of brought me back down to Earth on this project for a couple of reasons. What it comes down to is I really need to educate myself before I even think about doing anything with any of these actions, as far as caliber is concerned. Secondly, I can't afford to have the work done currently, and I don't know how to do it myself. So, I'm not going to be able to do this until I have either learned how, or have a lot more money to devote to it. Frankly, I'm not crazy about that idea, but ultimately the wait will make for a sweeter gun in the end. So, I have a couple of books that I'm going to get and devour. I am awaiting delivery of Bolt Action Rifles by Frank De Haas and Wayne Van Zwoll (which I just purchased on ebay), and tonight, I will be bidding on a copy of The Mauser Bolt Actions (A Shop Manual) by Jerry Kuhnhausen. If you have any suggestions on any other titles I should seek out, my ears are open, as always. And, even if I have stretched out the timeframe on this deal, I will continue to keep you guys in the loop as things happen, and I would still welcome advice and comments.

 

--Michael

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The De Haas book has a nice section on Siamese 98s.

 

Making a 45/70 out of a Siamese isn't just a matter of screwing in a new barrel and drilling and tapping for a scope. There could be considerable work on the rails and magazine to get things "just right". I wouldn't consider having a gunsmith do the conversion unless he (or she, I guess) had considerable experience doing so.

 

You have 3 actions. I'd start with one action and build a 7.62X54 as your first project. That's a "screw in the barrel" conversion, or it should be. De Haas specifically mentions the Russian round as one of the better candidates for the Siamese. He also felt the .458 American (or the modern .450 Marlin) was a good candidate as well. Both the .458 A and .450 M cartridges are better in my eyes than the 45/70. You'd need to discuss that with your gunsmith, of course.

 

You can go cheap on the wood, the scope, the mounts. DON'T go cheap on the essential machine work; those few extra dollars go a long way towards a more enjoyable shooting system.

 

Z1r has some experience with the Siamese Mausers. You can mail him anything you'd need worked on. I wouldn't feel the need to be constrained by "local" talent.

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"Bolt Action Rifles" by Frank De Haas is THE definitive work covering virtually every commercial centerfire bolt action rifle until the time of his death. Mine is the revised edition from 1984. I believe his son has made subsequent additions.

 

It includes a brief history of each action, physical descriptions, pictures, strengths/weaknesses, comments, and gunsmithing tips (as applicable).

 

The Mauser, Springfield, and Enfield sections are VERY complete. I consider it a must-have item for any gunsmith, collector, or enthusiast.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Bolt-Action-Rifles-F...4984&sr=8-1

 

There's a "Search this book" area on the left. Nice for a preview.

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All right. I just sent a message to z1r, concerning these actions. I think I'm agreeing with those of you to not go with the .45/70. -not at first, anyway. If I start hog-hunting, I'll probably want to do that with one of these, but for the time being, that just doesn't seem like a versatile enough round for what I would be using the gun for. Frankly, from what I've seen, it looks like hand-loaded 30-06 would do everything that the .45/70 would in that case. I'm probably going to wind up buying the Kuhnhausen book on Amazon, as they are selling close to the new price on ebay. I still haven't received the DeHaas book that I ordered last week. This kind of bothers me, but I'm sure it will be here soon.

 

I think my current biggest problem with knowing what to do with these is that I haven't done much rifle shooting at all. The wife and I have been shooting handguns for a little while now, but I'm just not sure what I want in a rifle at the moment. Anyway, the project rolls on...

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Michael, glad you got those books on the way. They aren't a 'sit down and read' so much as you'll constantly be pawing through them and happy you have the info at your finger tips.

 

Kenny, I guess I didn't exactly get the stuff up "tomorrow" like I promised. Been a miserable couple of weeks for things and I can barely just check the site real quick. Heard from Jason tonight and he said he would be glad to post the pics, so first of next week I will photo and send to Jason. Then add the text later along with explanation of the com'l shroud/firing pin trick.

 

45-70, 450 Marlin and 450 American are about the same performance wise. I like the 45-70 in a Siamese because they were designed for a rimmed cartridge. I built a 450 Marlin (again, first kid on the block) on a short action, magnum Montana Rifle Co. action. Works good and shoots good, but saving the Siameses for odder applications.

 

Pigs, bear (big and little) and brush you just can't beat the 45-70. 350 gr at 2100-2200 fps. Everything dies fast and clean. 450 Marlin is the same ballistics.

 

Michael, you have three to play with, we should all have that luck. Start with whatever tickles your fancy the most, but do save one for 45-70. I can't believe how accurate that 135 year old beast is! My two that are finished shoot 1" @ 100 yds.

 

Will get back to you guys as soon as I can with the stuff.

 

Brad

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