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Military Firearm Restoration Corner

2017 Mauser Builds?


ken98k

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Anyone planning a Mauser project for the coming year? I been tossing one around for several years and I think I'm going to tackle it in 2017.

I bought this Remington 700 take-off barrel in .300 WINMAG several years ago. It can't be used on a lg ring 98, and the popular consensus used to be that you should not turn it down to sm ring dimensions. So my plan is to bore out a sm ring Turkish 98 receiver and re-thread it to Remington 1-1/16" x 16tpi.

What do you think?

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I've seen many references to turning and threading the 700 takeoff for a small ring. Why not? The other choice of boring out the receiver and cutting threads is probably more work. As to which would be safer, I think leaving the receiver alone would be safer. Plus, to do the receiver, you probably have to anneal the ring, do your work, then reharden it, I would think. Just my total amateur opinion.

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I have several projects I want to do over the next year or 2. I need to finish my 8mm Yugo. I have Barrels and Receivers for a 243 on a Yugo. 7x57 on a Turk and 30-06 on a German 98 action. I just need to get off my but and invest a few hours a week. Ralph

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About 10 or 12 year ago we had lively debates here on using turks for magnum cartridges. The consensus at that time was a magnum barrel turned down and threaded for small ring mauser leaves the chamber wall too thin.

My goal is to utilize the 300magnum barrel I have to build an inexpensive rifle.

My plan is too open up the Large ring-small shank, receiver thread to Remington dimensions.

It certainly wont be easy but I feel since I have the machinery to do the job, why not?

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AZ, Bubbamauser built a 7mmrem mag on a turk.

Brokengun, I will mount the reciver in a fixture. Various alignment tools and test indicators are used to ensure the threads are aligned with the receiver axis.

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I've been working on a .257 Roberts build, using a Yugo action, for my daughter. I was considering a custom hinged trigger housing, but was putting it off, due to the cost. I've had the barrel mounted on the action, but not headspaced, for a while.

A couple of weeks ago, I stumbled across one of the old Parker Hale aluminum trigger housings on Ebay. New, in the wrap, never been mounted or put together. A little pricier than I liked, but it cuts 1/2# off the weight of the rifle.

I've now gotten two of them. I will be removing the barrel from the Yugo receiver, and mounting it on a spare standard 98 action I have. The barrel is a cut down F34 A&B barrel, that has been cut to 22" I plan on throating it, to make a 3" .257 Roberts.

I've got one of the old Fajen light weight stocks, that is a simple stock, no cheek piece, that has 4 7/8" holes drilled in the butt, and two sections in the forearm that have been routed out, to lighten the weight.

I need to find a commercial bolt, but that can wait till after Christmas.

It will look something like this. This is the original idea, using a .243Win barrel on a standard receiver. But, that changed when I found the .257 Roberts barrel. I'm just going to finish it using black park.

 

LightweightRifle6.jpg

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  • 4 weeks later...

AZ, Bubbamauser built a 7mmrem mag on a turk.

Brokengun, I will mount the reciver in a fixture. Various alignment tools and test indicators are used to ensure the threads are aligned with the receiver axis.

 

It worked well for a couple of years then I had a house fire and when I recovered it, the spring in the bolt was shot so the steel was softened. I don't have any more takeoffs or turk receivers but I don't know if I would do it again just because of how scared everyone was of it. I didn't hot load it but I never experienced any signs of overpressure setback etc. I'm in PA so it was overkill to begin with.

 

I did fire it the first 20 times with oiled cartridges with a string. it had at least 100 rounds through it before the fire.

 

This was the first Gunsmithing site I ever visited and I learned so much from the people here.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Obviously new to the site and new to sporterizing mausers. That said, I have a project that I would appreciate your input and any wisdom that you're willing to share with me regarding bullet options, and reloading advice and lightweight stock options if needed. Currently, I have an old Belgium Mauser 98 257 Roberts custom that I bought many years ago. The barrel is in poor shape, the three position safety was removed and replaced with a really bad aftermarket trigger/ safety combo. I love the synthetic stock ( not sure of the brand, but at least 24 years old) unfortunately it has a lot of flex to the forend.

 

New Project:

Finally, Found a local gunsmith who came highly recommended by two different firearms store owners. After about 30 minutes visiting, I decided to replace with a .270 #3 contour Douglas premium barrel, two position Winchester type safety, and a bold trigger. Also, he was planning on lapping the lugs, squaring the bolt and receiver face. He may have mentioned a few other modifications that I may have missed. He noticed the flex right away in the stock, pointed out where it had been rubbing. He thought he could improve the barrel clearance and rework the glass bedding a little in order to salvage the stock. May end up needing a new stock? Don't mind buying a new one if it makes sense.

My goal is to end up with a rifle that is reasonably accurate and that this is light enough for this old man to pack up a hill a couple times a year elk hunting. However; My Primary use will probably be taking it to the gun clubs 200,300 yard ranges shooting off bipod sticks for fun. Might even throw down a bag and give the 1000 yard range a try on occasion, since I do enjoy the math/physics and engineering that goes along with long range shooting. My background is engineering and I actually have done a lot of dynamic analysis work in he past. Thought about modeling the rifle barrel to better understand its fundamental frequencies and its modes of vibration... Probably a fruitless effort, but might be interesting to see what comes out of it?

 

Once finished I'll post pics / targets etc if anybody is interested. Maybe some analysis and graphical 3D modeling results of the barrel?

 

One last question, too many scopes to pick from. Given criteria above ( I do enjoy ranging from the scope) can you help me narrow choices $600-$1500 max

 

Thanks

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I have one real expensive scope. Or what I consider real expensive, which is in your price range. It's a Valdada. http://www.valdada.com/scopes/ . I bought it from the company owner at the BIG gun show in Tulsa. You could call him up and ask him if he has any sale items. The one I got is mil dot in the first focal plane, so perfect for ranging. I also have a Burris extended eye relief on a Contender that I am pretty happy with. I could hit things I couldn't see without the scope using it.

 

If you work up the models, I'm sure we would all like to see them. The gun writers always talk about barrel harmonics, but no one every has anything concrete.

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I have heard really good things about the IOR Valdada optics, but i can't recall ever actually seeing one. I will check them out!

 

The Douglas site has some dimensions for the various barrel profiles, but not enough data to build an accurate finite element analysis model. It is like a calculus problem, the more incremental measurements taken, the better results.

 

I was told I would get my rifle in about 2 months. Soon as I get it, I will mic the barrel and see what I come up with...I will be sure to pass on the model data and results, and include amplified model deflections at various frequencies.

 

Thanks for the scope info!

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Welll, I built a crude Finite element analysis model, in order to get a feel for the results I could expect. The 1-6 modes indicated surprisingly low frequencies.. Much lower than the rate at which the bullet leaves the barrel. At first I thought I had a bad ( unrealistic) model, so I googled FEA barrels and found this site. http://www.varmintal.com/amode.htm

 

Different barrel profiles, But results were ball park close to his; However his work is magnitudes better than anything I could produce.

 

This was some conclusions he came to with his work :

 

". From "FEA dynamic pressure calculations, it appears that the recoil and forced deformations are much more important than the natural vibration modes in determining where a barrel is pointing when the bullet exits the muzzle. Then after the bullet exits the muzzle, the rifle barrel vibrates in its various natural frequencies and mode shapes. Put another way, consider a guitar string being plucked. One pulls the string into a position (forced position) then releases it and the string vibrates at is natural frequency. The recoil and bullet motions "pulls" the rifle barrel to a new shape and once the bullet leaves the barrel, then the barrel vibrates. However, the addition of the scope to the model has shown some small high frequency vibrations superimposed on the forced deformations, both of which, slightly alter where the muzzle points before the bullet exits. "

 

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Putting a fine point on this exercise. Harmonics of a barrel appear to be over rated. Barrel deflection initiated from imperfectly concentric pressures and frictional forces, and imperfections in the bullet itself may be far bigger contributors to inaccuracy than harmonics. Intuitively, then it would make sense that a barrel with a greater moment of inertia would be more accurate then? More accurate yes, but not necessarily more consistent.

Just something to think about. .

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Short thick barrels, like used on the Contender, seem to be more accurate, or more accurate than long thin barrels. Long thin barrels impart greater velocity. Lot of variables in that equation, certainly. "Bull" barrels are generally long and thick. Thick barrels are stiffer and I would think have lower harmonics than a thin barrel. Which effects accuracy more? I would GUESS the stiffer aspect.

 

There are companies that sell harmonic tuner devices that you mount on the end of your barrel. They purport to increase accuracy. And some rifles, such as the Mini-14, seem to be more effected by harmonic tuning than others, from what I have read.

 

An interesting observation in node things: The antenna on my bike is mounted on the rear lower saddlebag rail. It is about 3' long or so. It breaks every so often, like every 20-30K miles, say. The last time it broke, when I replaced it and started the bike I noticed that it broke at exactly the nodal point of the bike's running engine. It was classic: A sinusoidal wave pattern with a node at like the 2' point. I put the old broken antenna up next to it and it fit the nodal point perfectly.

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Your comment on "Tuners" is an interesting one. This Gentleman who did all the analysis goes into great detail on tuners. I was trying to figure out his background, all I could find on his site is that he worked at The Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, which is a federal research center... Reliable source.

 

I think that the main point I learned from my own analysis and his more in depth analysis, is that the bullet has already left the barrel by the time the barrel sees appreciable harmonics.

 

clearly certain loads work better for given rifles, and in the past that is usually attributed to barrel harmonics...however, as you suggested, there is more to it than that.

 

 

 

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On your antenna - this is a sustained input, unlike a extremely short lived combustion event in the barrel. What you have here is a displacement that causes the antenna to experience repeated stress above the fatigue limit of the material. Yes the inflection point ( that you are calling the node) is the point of maximum bending stress makes sense it would break there. Big problem in the aerospace industry, where it is critical to design below the fatigue limit. As long as that value is not exceeded the material can sustain an infinite number of vibratory cycles.... Anyway... Thanks for your responses and insight.

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Has anyone done an extreme high speed, high precision study on barrels? Like high speed camera of the barrel next to a straight edge, recording the movement of the barrel/receiver as the round ignites and pushes the bullet out the barrel? Maybe there is some kind of whip-saw effect going on, and that is what the barrel tuner weights or gizmos are affecting. Not so much a resonate frequency, which would happen after the fact, but some kind of stress expansion/contraction event at ignition and as the bullet moves down the barrel.

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As you suggest, the model results show the applied pressure/forces displace the barrel as the bullet leaves the barrel. The deflections in the animated models are amplified 500 times actual displacements in order to better illustrate the deflections. In theory if a barrel could be fixed to a rigid lock, high speed cameras may show the initial deflection as bullet exits and the following harmonics as the round is traveling down range. Might be more difficult to discern with recoil complicating...but it may be possible?

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Tibor, if you are looking at a lightweight Mauser build, keep on eye on eBay. Somebody has been selling aluminum trigger housings made by Parker Hale. Very similar, if not identical to those sold by Uncle Mikes years ago. They will cut a good half pound of the weight of the rifle.

You might want to look at the laminated stocks by Boyds and Richards Microfit. You can get finished stock from Boyds, Richards needs work. Laminates are a bit heavier, but they are stronger, and there are things that can be done to lighten them.

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Thanks for the stock information Sailor...

I am still hoping that my existing stock works out, but I will keep the Boyds/Richard in mind.

 

After looking at my scope short list in more detail ( IOR Valdada / Burris xtr ii), any weight savings is something worth considering. Alum. Trigger guard might be one of them especially if it's a half pound as u say!

 

I am finding that keeping a realistic balance of (Accuracy-consistency of build/weight/quality scope) vs (COST) -to be quite difficult . Ha

 

 

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Been planning to finish up an few Mausers. 260 Rem, 270 also on an Turk with Remote 700 barrel. But I need to get an flush tank and sandblasted set up before I can park. Thinking of trading an F54 barrel in an 7-08mm for onevinced the f14. To thick I think what I want to use it for.

 

Rob

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