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Military Firearm Restoration Corner

Siamese Mauser Action Mods


evylrobot

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How about the WSM class of cartridges? I ran a .270 WSM through may Siamese and it picked them up and ejected with no problem. Rim is .535 vs the Siamese at .550. The only question is pressure.

 

I don't think pressure would be a problem with these actions as long as you don't try increasing the mag length to the front.

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The Siamese Mausers were made by the Japanese for the Siamese. I have three, one in original caliber and two have been converted to the 8x42. Being a collector I would like to beg you not to sporterize those peices of history. Keep them like Grandpaw had them and hand them down to future generations. They are getting hard to find in original form. What about shooting them in original caliber? Thank you riceone.

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Wheeee.. I'm glad to hear that. If I had a junker I'd do that. When the Siamese mausers first came into this country a gunsmith friend of mine made one up in 45/70 and it was pretty. riceone

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My slowly being built Siamese is going to be in 30/40. I had Kiff grind a floating pilot reamer with a Palma throat, and have a #3 contour Pac Nor 3 groove 1 in 12" barrel on the bench. Out of the Siamese, the difference between 30/40 handloads and a 308 should be negligible. That throat should be perfect for 150- 168 grains. I also have a Richards Microfit stock I wish I had never bought.

 

One thing to remember about sporterizing, you do not want to remove the serial number. Those squiggles on the bridge of a Siamese are the serial number. LL

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My slowly being built Siamese is going to be in 30/40. I had Kiff grind a floating pilot reamer with a Palma throat, and have a #3 contour Pac Nor 3 groove 1 in 12" barrel on the bench. Out of the Siamese, the difference between 30/40 handloads and a 308 should be negligible. That throat should be perfect for 150- 168 grains. I also have a Richards Microfit stock I wish I had never bought.

 

One thing to remember about sporterizing, you do not want to remove the serial number. Those squiggles on the bridge of a Siamese are the serial number. LL

 

What don't you like about your Richards stock? I've got one also; a laminated that's very rough and over sized.

I guess some like them that way as it gives you the opportunity to shape it the way you want it.

I think the glue makes it very hard on inletting tools.

My action has the squiggles on the bridge but also has the serial # on top of the left rail.

bridge_recontour_007.jpg

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The inlet is pretty poor. You will be able to see bedding material at the right side of the bridge. Also, I plan on cutting off the grip cap and tip and changing the shape of those and the stock a bit. I knew I was going to do that, I did not know that the inletting would be so poor. I just hate paying good money for a poor inlet.

 

It looks as if your serial number on the rail was added at a later date. One thing I keep tossing about is whether to go with a low power scope or receiver sight. I like a 2.5 for brush, but the receiver also has its virtures. ll

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The inlet is pretty poor. You will be able to see bedding material at the right side of the bridge. Also, I plan on cutting off the grip cap and tip and changing the shape of those and the stock a bit. I knew I was going to do that, I did not know that the inletting would be so poor. I just hate paying good money for a poor inlet.

 

It looks as if your serial number on the rail was added at a later date. One thing I keep tossing about is whether to go with a low power scope or receiver sight. I like a 2.5 for brush, but the receiver also has its virtures. ll

 

I'm going to use a 4X with Buehler mounts if I ever get this thing done.

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Bump again for missing the buck.

 

I have Brad's photos in my possession and I promise to post them in the next 48 hours. I haven't been able to stay in one spot that had Internet access long enough to get them posted, but I promise they shall be forthcoming soon.

 

-Jason

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Silly me, I have been wanting a 25 Krag AI for quite some time now. I did my taxes this morning, things looked good, and I got a wild hair. I ordered a reamer from PTG in this caliber. I ordered a floating pilot and P.O.'s reamer specs. This should make my Siamese something I can get excited about. I already have a few 30/40's and was going to use that reamer just because I had it.

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Well, I have been able to read some the the DeHaas book. It's quite interesting. According to the part about the Siamese Mausers, the bolts are nearly interchangeable between the M98 and the Siamese. So, I suppose I'll need to look a little closer at Grandpa's 244 to determine whether it's a Siamese or not. I found out that a few of his other rifles are floating around the family. A couple of my uncles have some of them, and my younger cousin has one (yeah, I got the shaft in my generation. I guess these three actions are the last laugh there.) Anyway, I'm really interested to learn more about the other guns in the family to try and determine more about how much rifle work he did during his life.

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(yeah, I got the shaft in my generation. I guess these three actions are the last laugh there.)

 

If you got 3 siamese actions, you did not get the shaft. He left you the oppertunity become invovled in something he obviously loved.

You have the to find out if you have any of your grand dad in you.

 

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If you got 3 siamese actions, you did not get the shaft. He left you the oppertunity become invovled in something he obviously loved.

You have the to find out if you have any of your grand dad in you.

 

Superb reply! Yeah, when you are done, you will really have something to remember him by each time you take it out and make new memories it will be as if he is sharing them with you. I have some guns my gradpa left me. I've shot them to pieces long ago but still keep them because they were his.

 

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Fair enough. When my parents got together with the aunts and uncles to divvy up the collection, it was just such a clandestine affair. I was in my teens at the time, and I wanted to be there, just to see the collection. I think that an uncle or two thought I wanted to get my paws on a piece or two, but that was just not the case. I was excluded from the event, and when the dust settled, it was kind of a mystery where all the guns wound up. Needless to say, finding out that my younger cousin had wound up with a complete rifle was a little bit hurtful.

 

Indeed, the only reason that I wound up with these three actions was that everybody else thought they were junk. I claimed them after everyone else got what they wanted. Hence the shaft, and hence the last laugh.

 

On a relate note, two of these actions have paper tags hanging on the trigger guards with my Grandpa's initials and some numbers. I don't know why I didn't bother to mention this previously, but it may have some significance. If any (or all) of these have had some chambering/rail work done to them, would it be pretty obvious, or could that be something that could escape the untrained eye? When I get home, I'll try to remember to look at those and determine what the numbers say. It might be pretty cool if some of that had already been done. Although, I don't know why he would have taken care of chambering and not yet bothered to modify the bolt handle, and the other scope-mounting mods... I don't know. I'll post whatever the tags say, and let you guys give your opinions.

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OK, all. Like I said in my previous post, of the three actions that I have, none of them have the rear tangs or the breach covers. I'm not terribly worried about that. Two of them have paper tags tied to the trigger guards. It is all hand-written, and the tags are apparently old, and partially covered in oil and grossness, but they appear to read as the following:

 

1) Rec 36 Re

Bolt 38 to 42 Re

KH (Kenneth Herrold, I would assume. That was the man's name.)

 

(On the reverse)

9-24-72

38477

 

2) Rec 28

Bolt 45

 

(On the reverse)

9-24-72

296

 

I would imagine that this means that these tags were written on September 24, 1972. If the numbers are specifications for the receiver and bolt on each, the numbers are lost on me. Also, that last number on the reverse side of each tag means nothing at all to me. Any ideas, thoughts, or insight? Thanks again!

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"Rc"?

 

Hopefully. If what you're looking at are hardness measurements on the the Rockwell C scale, the numbers you've got written down there sound about right for a Mauser.

 

Re: Pictures

 

Okay. At long last, here goes:

 

Rifles left side

Siameseleftside.jpg

 

Rifles right side

Siamesefull.jpg

 

Rifles right side up close

Siameseopen.jpg

 

Here's a couple shots of the firing pins/tips

SiameseFPs.jpg

SiameseFPtips.jpg

 

Here's an action

Siamesewaiting-1.jpg

 

And here's a sure sign that Brad should be out in the shop, hard at work on his rifles again

Eatyourheartout.jpg

 

That's everything I've got. Sorry it took me so long to get these up.

 

Enjoy!

 

Jason

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Jason, thanks so much for getting these up for me. I'm even sorrier for being even slower to getting around to posting comments to go with.

 

Couple of things I wanted to point out:

 

On the close up of the open actions on the finished rifles, right side. The lower rifle was one I got 70% done and finished it out including the rosewood tips and bedding. Look at the action and note the divots from the old dust cover. Kind of unsightly in my opinion, but I didn't want to go the expense of refinishing so left it as was. Compare to the one above and see the difference. On the pic of the barrelled action the divots have been filled and look great in real life, but somehow the camera picked them right up and they show in the pics. Kuhnhausen says (somewhere) that if filling is done before rehardening that often the fillings don't show as much. Will try it on the unfinished project actions and let you know.

 

Regarding switching to a commercial shroud and adding a side safety adjustable trigger. A Siamese firing pin sits at 90 degrees from a standard 98. If you install a new shroud the pin will be rotated 90 degrees and the cocking piece will no longer work. However, if you install a new cocking piece the pin will rotate another 90 degrees and all works. I prefer a cp from a Kurz action because they are the same length as the Siamese cp. The pics show two fp assemblies one with a Kurz cp and one with a std. Obviously if a std is used ther rear of the fp will need to be ground down and finished to match.

 

What bone is connected to the shroud bone? Look at the pics of the fp tips. I learned something I didn't know while preparing this. I always knew that the flat side of the spring retaining collar was for, well, spring retaining. I always understood that the dished or foward side of the collar was to deflect any gasses into the escape vents on the bolt and ring. However, Kunhausen says (at p.45) that the two shoulders that protrude from the dishing are "firing pin safety lugs". They rest on an internal shoulder in the bolt when it is opened and keep the fp from dropping in anything less than full battery. Redundant to the cp resting on it's cocking shelf at the rear. Also non-existant in any other Muaser models.

 

So, after installing new cp and shroud the fore part of the pin needs to be dressed down a few thousandths to clear it's new position in the bolt tunnel and the shoulders need to be filed back to gain a new firing pin protrusion. Left has been so dressed and fitted, right is as made. Then adjust protrusion to proper .055-.065". That's how it's done. Works fine.

 

Thanks,

Brad

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:o Yikes! About 4 a.m. I woke up and realized the big mistake I made in my post. I figured there would be about 10 folks calling me on it this morning.

 

Referring to changing the shroud and cp. When the shroud is changed the fp is rotated 90 degrees. So far so good.

 

However changing the cp to a standard Mauser DOES NOT rotate the fp anymore, obviously. What it does is rotate the position of the cp in relationship to the action back to normal. This makes the action work again after the previously posted modifications to the firing pin are performed.

 

However it brings up a point I completely forgot to discuss and meant to. That has to do with the redundant "firing pin safety lug" (Kunhausen). Since the firing pin is now rotated 90 degrees from original, I do not believe that it is engaging the internal shoulder in the same fashion and the redundancy may well be lost. As I pointed out before, I believe the 98 is the only Mauser to have that feature and maybe the only bolt action at all to have it. That said, if it worries you, then best to just stay with a shroud mounted safety and keep the original shroud. I've never had anything approaching a problem with this modification after five actions.

 

Yesterday I was in a big rush and probably should have waited to do the post but felt guilty about being so slow. My apologies.

 

Brad

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