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Military Firearm Restoration Corner

Pa10 .308


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Palmetto State Armory has been having some good deals lately, so I thought I would finish up the stripped lower I got last year. I had started piecing the lower together using AR15 parts, but apparently their lowers are a low profile DPMS varient that have 3 proprietary parts. The hinge/take down pins are larger in diameter, and the bolt stop is larger than the AR15/M16 part. So, I had to get those parts, as well as a different buffer tub, buffer, and spring.
2 weeks ago they had complete uppers, less hand guards, at a $60 savings over a complete upper. So, I ordered one with a 20" barrel. I tried to determine what hand guard it took, but Customer Service at Palmetto had no clue as to which hand guard it was. So, I had to wait till the upper arrived today.
It turns out it takes the 12" Vietnam style triangular hand guards, so they are on order from Numrich. My son wanted the plastic painted, and didn't like the dark forest green I originally painted it with. So, I repainted what plastic I have with OD green, covered with matt clear(which unfortunately, gives it a bit of a sheen). He also wants the M16 style carry handle sight, so a detachable one is on order.
It weighs right at 8#, with no mag. Compared to my M14, with 18" medium weight barrel, that weighs 10#. My standard M14, with Ewings scope mount and Bushnell 10x, that weights 11# 14oz.
With their prices the way they are, one can put together a complete PA10 for about $700.
Tomorrow, I will do a simple trigger job on it, and then wait for the rest of the stuff to get here. But, here it is:

PA10_zpskfueagmc.jpg

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Check out Palmetto State Armory and their prices. I built mine using their "blemmed" receivers, and saved a bunch of money. The "blems" as cosmetic blems. Something in the finish, and quite franlky I couldn't find the blem.

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Gonna be bad assed!! 100 bucks cheaper and likely much higher quality than the 850+ DPMS, 308 they sell at Wally's. I eye-balled the DPMS at Wally's and it just felt cheap in my mind. Probably would have cost DPMS another 95 cents at the manufacturing level to add a forward assist but they opted to leave it out. Years ago (late 70's) I bought a blem 1911 frame. Took quite awhile to locate it. It was inside the mag well and I never would have discovered it if a friend hadn't pointed it out to me.

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Looks good so far sir.

I may have to get an AR ..just to have one.

 

karl

Take a look at the Smith & Wesson. It was last December the lowest cost AR with the metal lower frame. Guess I'm old school and showing my age. I just don't have a good feeling about the plastic framed AR's. Different than the Glock that was designed ground-up and around a plastic frame. The only short cut I noticed on my son's AR compared to my 70's AR was the lack of a chrome plated bore. Same as most modern AR's, the carry handle is now an option.

 

Oooops almost forgot you're a Marine. My brother told me in boot camp some poor recruit got his ass chewed and likely had to do push-ups. The recruit named it as a carry handle. Not sure, I think it was sight bridge or something similar Marines were instructed to name it.

 

My son has the cheapie S&W AR. We put apx 250rds of steel cased Wolf brand and my handloads through it right out of the box and not a single hick-up. Shooting it at rocks on the side of a mountain. Did not see any difference between the 62 grain Wolf and my 55 gr hand loads. On paper out my 70's AR. The shot string opens up considerably shooting the heavier 62 gr bullet. I'm assuming it has something to do with rifling twist rate and the modern AR's have a twist rate suitable for both.

 

Guess you better hurry up!! Start kissing up to Mrs Hippie, beg if necessary. If you think it was bad dealing with the shortages after Obama was elected. My guess it will be worse if Hillary gets elected.

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I did a trigger job on it yesterday, and to the pull down to 6# 4oz. Doesn't sound good, but it started at about 8 1/2#+, and it is much smoother now. I will probably go shoot it next week. I am still waiting for the handguards to get here. I finally found out that the triangular front cap with fit any of the handguards, which I wish I had known before I ordered the ones I did.

Comparing it to my 18 1/2" barreled M14, the PA10 weighs in at right at 8# without mag and front handguards. Barrel is heavier in diameter, and weight is forward on the rifle. My shorter barreled M14 weighs in at 9# 11oz with sling and no mag.

The M14 system has better sights and trigger.

One added plus, is that here in CA, I can use what 20 rd magazines I own in the M14, since I have a fake Flash Suppressor on it, while I am stuck with on 10 rd mags in the PA10.

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One added plus, is that here in CA, I can use what 20 rd magazines I own in the M14, since I have a fake Flash Suppressor on it, while I am stuck with on 10 rd mags in the PA10.

I wonder what kind of numb skull, lame brained politician devised the regs and if anyone with an IQ in or above the dull/normal range actually believe a fake flash suppressor provides public safety. Is it possible to use larger mags with your PA with a phony or no flash suppressor??

 

About a year ago I met up with a childhood friend on his visit to Phoenix. He lives in a community outside of San Francisco. I suspected he was exaggerating telling me about his AR-15. His 20rd mag with a 10 rd block is permanently attached to the lower receiver with the mag release button and parts removed. He claims he has to pull the rear pin, pivot the upper upward and feed the mag from the top with a stripper clip or by inserting single rds. He claimed in our conversation it was the only he could travel legally through Frisco proper with an AR.

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I wonder what kind of numb skull, lame brained politician devised the regs and if anyone with an IQ in or above the dull/normal range actually believe a fake flash suppressor provides public safety. Is it possible to use larger mags with your PA with a phony or no flash suppressor??

 

About a year ago I met up with a childhood friend on his visit to Phoenix. He lives in a community outside of San Francisco. I suspected he was exaggerating telling me about his AR-15. His 20rd mag with a 10 rd block is permanently attached to the lower receiver with the mag release button and parts removed. He claims he has to pull the rear pin, pivot the upper upward and feed the mag from the top with a stripper clip or by inserting single rds. He claimed in our conversation it was the only he could travel legally through Frisco proper with an AR.

 

That is the way it USED to be. That was before "Bullet Buttons' were figured out, and invented. That is what held me off for years from getting an AR platform rifle. The whole "punch the pin, pivot the upper up to reload" bit.

With bullet buttons, that is no longer the case, though one is still limited to 10 rd mags. One can now buy plastic push tools with a key ring, and hang it on ones finger when shooting, and use that to detach the magazine. One can reload fairly quickly that way.

However, if one has a Registered Assault Weapon(RAW), one can use what ever legally owned "hi cap" mags one owns. That is the reason I prefer the M14 pattern rifles. By installing a fake Flash Suppressor or a Muzzle Brake, one can use whatever mags one legally owns. I prefer the ability to use my "hi cap" mags.

I have just completed my PA10. I can't say I built it, since putting a AR platform together is like using Leggos. I bought a complete upper, less handgaurd, and saved money. My son wanted the retro, so l got a Vietnam era triangle handguard and installed it.

 

Weight

PA10..........9 lbs 0 oz(3 lbs more than my AR15 M4)

M14S.........9 lbs 10oz

 

Length

PA10..........38 1/4" to 41 5/8"

M14S.........40 7/8"

 

Trigger pull

PA10...........6 lbs 4 oz(took work to get there, started out at 8 1/2+ lbs)

M14S..........4 lbs 8 oz

 

Barrel diameter at FS

PA10........... .725"(very muzzle heavy)USN3

M14S............598"

 

Length of Pull

PA10..........11 1/2" to 14 3/4"

M14S.........13 3/16"

 

http://s752.photobucket.com/user/Sailormilan2/media/PA10M14S_zpsoq25ixpq.jpg.html]PA10M14S_zpsoq25ixpq.jpg[/url]

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THX!! Sailormilan, I was a bit confused on the bullet button baloney when I ordered my AR-10. By phone I asked the sales clerk about the button and he responded saying something about me not needing it in Arizona.

 

A few years ago I was confused about the flash suppressor BS as well. I bought a CETME from J&G Sales and after discovering what I thought was a flash suppressor and what they had illustrated in their catalog turned out to be a very irritating muzzle brake. Hoping I could get J&G to exchange a flash suppressor for the muzzle brake. I was advised of some ridiculous law in regard to imports. The J&G salesman told me I could go through their gunsmithing dept, swap the brake for the suppressor but they would have to grind away the bayonet lug. After I asked if it would be legal for me to swap the parts myself. The clerk wisely evaded a straight answer. Telling me it is J&G's policy not to discuss legal questions and for me to contact ATF in writing. We closed the phone conversation with the salesman saying "you're lucky you don't live in California". Not legal in California in the configuration mine was in.

 

The CETME was a big disappointment and I traded it away along with a dozen mags for a nearly new FNP 45. After apx 150 rds the accuracy settled down but it became a jam-o-matic. I was honest with the guy I traded. He showed up with a micrometer, feeler gauges and disassembled it on my pickup's tailgate. He said something about being able to fix it for a few bucks.

 

The CETME left me hooked on a 308 black rifle. I sold off a few guns including a semi-auto Remington 7400 in 308. The Remmy shot the same cartridge, was reasonably accurate but just wasn't the same in my mind. I really wanted a genuine Armalite but at the time after a few gun shows. I couldn't find one that wasn't well worn for under 1500. Net chatter saying a lot about the manufacture rights of the Armalite changing hands a few times and the quality see-sawing along the way. New the Armalites were running more than a walnut stocked, match grade barrel M-1A. A gun I coveted for about 30 years. I just can't dump 2 G's+ on a rifle and stay guilt free and happily married.

 

I raised the cash with a DPMS from Wally's in mind but after examining one close up. It didn't appear in my mind anyway. To be any better than the Remington I sold. An email spam from Grab-A-Gun and a lay away deal sold me on the S&W AR-10. I've had the S&W for about 6 months but unfortunately health problems have kept me from shooting it yet.

 

Sorry for rambling away AGAIN!! Anyhow, if I understand it correctly. Can a 308 upper be installed and used on an AR-15 lower?? From what I've read on some other boards. The S&W AR-10 is basically a 308 upper on an AR-15 lower with a few different parts like buffer spring, plunger and a couple other small parts I can't recall. With the numerous self proclaimed experts or a "friend of mine did" posting on the net. I wonder exactly what it takes to put a 308 upper on an AR-15 lower. Is it possible without breaking the bank??

 

How much work was involved and do you recall the cost of piecing together your M-14?? I feel like kicking myself almost daily for believing the net chatter and gun rags calling the Norinco M-14 junk. Soft receivers most claimed. Turns out the forged Norinco receiver many claim is better than the investment cast commercial Springfield M-1A. During the 80's when I had a FFL. A 6-7 hour drive each way to Long Beach and back. The cost of a Chinese M-14 was about 300, even less in lots of a dozen. If I remember correctly. The Chinese M-14 was walnut or birch stocked, included two mags, canvas sling, bayonet and sheath.

 

I've also heard net chatter claiming many of the surplus M-14 parts getting scarce. During the beginning of the Mideast war. The Marines bought back from distributers like SARCO and Numrich many of the parts they sold them years ago. According to the net or gun rag article. The Marines were a way ahead of the Army when they began putting the M-14 back into service in Iraq. The Marines had access to mint M-14's from the Navy.

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AR15 and AR/PA10 receivers are totally different, the triggers and hammers, springs etc are the same. Palmetto State Armory changed a couple of small parts, which means they have proprietary stuff. They went to bigger hinge and takedown pins, which I think is a good idea, as well as a larger bolt stop. As long as one stays with all PSA stuff one shouldn't have a problem.

Right now, you can get a stripped lower(blem) for $95, and a parts kit for $550(18" barrel). If you want a 20" barreled kit like mine, then it is $600. And free shipping. So, you're looking at $700 or so when finished. Here in CA, we only ship the lower/receiver to the dealer, since the state makes him charge us sales tax on whatever he gets. So, the lower/recevier goes to him, the rest comes straight to my house.

PTAC stuff is a bit cheaper but I stick with PSA stuff.

 

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-10/ar-10-upper-assemblies.html

 

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-10/lowers.html

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