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Military Firearm Restoration Corner

Heat Treating Recievers


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Here is my question.

 

I may have access to a heat treat facilityat a local bolt making facility. However, I know nothing about heat treating other than it hardens the steel.

 

Is there some kinda special heat treat magic for a mauser or can run a stripped down reciever through a heat treat furnace and get pretty much the same hardening affect?

 

As always looking to save some cash wherever possible, but not at the expense of my face and fingers. ;)

 

 

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mausers metal is low in carbon...so you don"t heattreat them ..you add extra carbon to the surface..called caseharding..

" google " caseharding of metal..it will tell you more ..

 

by the way got the parts on the way for that steyr project.will have some pics up in a few days

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The easiest way I know to get a Mauser bolt or receiver properly and cost effectively gas carburized is to contact Mike McCabe and find out when he's sending his next batch off to the treaters.

 

Normally these guys charge by the lot - which can be your receiver or ten receivers - so its usually more cost effectively (i.e. cheaper) to go in with someone on several. Since Mike is a gunsmith and has all the proper licensing and does lots of Mauser work, there's a chance he may need to get a couple sent out. That's what we did with my Turk and it worked well.

 

Not necessarily campaigning or anything, just offering a suggestion based on my personal experiences...

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The easiest way I know to get a Mauser bolt or receiver properly and cost effectively gas carburized is to contact Mike McCabe and find out when he's sending his next batch off to the treaters.

 

Normally these guys charge by the lot - which can be your receiver or ten receivers - so its usually more cost effectively (i.e. cheaper) to go in with someone on several. Since Mike is a gunsmith and has all the proper licensing and does lots of Mauser work, there's a chance he may need to get a couple sent out. That's what we did with my Turk and it worked well.

 

Not necessarily campaigning or anything, just offering a suggestion based on my personal experiences...

 

Appreciate the replies, and all the info.

 

I will definitely look into contacting Mike McCabe when I get going on my next mauser project. Hopefully in the next 3 or 4 months. I have asked the guy at the boltmaker what type of process they use and they said it varied depending on what the customer wanted. So not sure yet if that avenue is doable. Would be nice if it works out.

 

Just to clarify so that I got it straight:

 

If I take a reciever down to the "white" lets say with 220 or finer sanding. I effectively have removed the relatively thin hardened "shell". Thus anytime you mod an action by sanding/grinding/welding you should always heat treat before refinishing it? Yes?

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to avoid getting your buddy in trouble, remember that if he's going to do work on a gun, either you have to be present the whole time (take the gun with you and bring it back when it's done - no leaving while it's in the oven) or he needs the appropriate FFL.

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Ahhh, good point.

 

I actually was going to be present, but I guess I had not though out all the legal ramifications of leaving it in case it did not get finished. Man there is alot of gotchas when doing this stuff...

 

Ok, but what about the technical part of sanding and stuff? I do have the concept right, correct?

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724wd; makes an excellent point.

 

The BATF changed the rules not to long ago and people and businesses that provide certain services for firearms must now have a manufacturing license and actually put a new serial number on the firearm in question.

 

To my understanding heat treating is one of these services.

 

If you’re there during the time the work is being done and actually participate in the process such as being the one that actually puts the receiver in the oven, then as 724wd says you should be ok.

 

I do have one question maybe I just missed it but why do you want or feel the need to have your receiver heat treated?

 

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As an FYI Buck, I am the quality manager of a bolt shop. I have been around mfg and heat treating for 25+ yrs. I am familiar with and have done quite often the process of carburizing which is a type of case hardening. It is one of the most expensive case hardening processes and the only one that is suitable for a Mauser recvr. I also have access to a few very good heat treaters that carburize. It is my assumption that the places doing recvrs, like Z uses, have a process that lends itself to this. Things such as fixturing to control warpage. I can get this type of thing done probably for free and I'm not comfortable with trying it. It has nothing to do with confidence - I won't approve a heat treater for this company if their not top shelf. I'm sure they would get the case depth and hardness correct, but looking at the shape of a recvr - two sections of mass tied together with thin rails - my money would be on bent or twisted rails.

I have 2 that will be heat treated hopefully this fall or winter. They are both going to Z1R and he can bundle them into his next group. I think it's approx 80.00 each for one. In my eyes that is dirt cheap if done correctly. Free paperweights are what isn't cheap.

Also, the inside of the front ring and the bolt lugs are where the most critical hardnesses are. I have access to about 5 different types of hardness testers and can't check the inside reliably without sectioning (destroying) the front ring. I may be wrong, but I think the camming angle at the rear of the rear bridge is the only outside part that has important hardness. Someone will chime in if I'm wrong I hope. You shouldn't have ruined a "good" recvr by sanding the outside.

My 2 cents, Ron

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Just to clarify so that I got it straight:

If I take a reciever down to the "white" lets say with 220 or finer sanding. I effectively have removed the relatively thin hardened "shell". Thus anytime you mod an action by sanding/grinding/welding you should always heat treat before refinishing it? Yes?

 

No.

Cleaning up an action, whether by sanding or bead blasting or stoning does not necesarilly mean it needs to be re-carburized.

The areas to be mainly concerned with are the bolt lug recesses and the bolt slide areas.

For example, machining the ring on a K-kale does not require re-hardening.

Lapping the bolt lugs may very well mean re-hardening.

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724wd; makes an excellent point.

 

The BATF changed the rules not to long ago and people and businesses that provide certain services for firearms must now have a manufacturing license and actually put a new serial number on the firearm in question.

 

To my understanding heat treating is one of these services.

 

If you’re there during the time the work is being done and actually participate in the process such as being the one that actually puts the receiver in the oven, then as 724wd says you should be ok.

 

I do have one question maybe I just missed it but why do you want or feel the need to have your receiver heat treated?

 

To all,

 

Again appreciate the feedback and thanks for answering some probably very basic questions.

 

Well after reading everyones response it is obvious to me that this is a very specialized area of gunsmithing that you can't just take your action and rub some graphite on it or dip it in a carbon rich solution and heat it up. No matter how fancy the furnace you may have access to.

 

The person heat treating sounds like they have to have a in depth knowledge of metalurgy as well as the composition of the action you are working with. Both of this I have little to none.

 

In answer to the Brokengun, I don't think I need it at this time. I was just trying to figure out what this was for and why you would need to do it. Just learning, especially since critical body parts could utlimately be at stake. :rolleyes:

 

Now it is coming together: Now lets see if I got it straight.

 

The critical contact points between your reciever and the bolt are the areas you shoud heat treat if there is any modification, such as lapping or trueing of the respective lug faces. These are extremely hard to get at in the reciever and this is why you should always have them done by a qualified Heat Treater who knows what they are doing. If done improperly it could cause at worst a catastrophic failure resulting in death, dismemberment or mutilation, not necissarily in that order... or if your lucky it can cause the the bolt to "sink" into reciever messing with your headspacing, right? Which effectivel toast the reiciever anyway, thus creating what someone called an expensive paperweight. As for cosmetic changes to the external shell of the reciever that does not trigger the need for re-heat treating. Ok if I got this pretty close someone give me a thumbs up or correct me.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I have worked on over 100 Mauser receivers and never had anything heat treated.

 

I can hardly express how contemptuous I am of Jerry Kuhnhausen's book on Mausers discussion or re heat treating.

For some yay-hoo on the internet to say that stuff is no big deal. Plenty believe in UFOs and big foot.

But that is a published and widely sold book.

There is just no excuse for that.

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