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I am the FNG for today


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#1 curioandrelic

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Posted 28 February 2006 - 08:22 PM

My father-in-law stopped by AIM (I am lucky enough to live near AIM and SOG) and bought a $70 MN. I gladly welcomed him into the fold only to find out he has intentions of sporterizing it. I haven't ever "crossed over to the dark side" myself, but I don't know that I have a philosophical problem with this either. I do know that sportizing can't be mentioned on "other" MN forums without producing an orgy of attacks. This forum appears to be friendly to some sporterization so here I am. Additionally I have seen a couple of posts in the archive here regarding sporterizing and MN.

Are their special tools or drilling jigs that should be purchased to aid in the proper drilling for scope mount? Are there recommended scope mounts?

#2 swamp_thing

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Posted 28 February 2006 - 08:40 PM

I personally used the ati mount on the first one I did. It is pretty easy to line up as per the instructions sent with it. It also helps if you have a set of calipers. You can place one jaw of the calipers on the bottom of the receiver and the other across the top of the mount as a means of centering the mount on the receiver. I think Steve Wagner has some info on this on his site. My second mount was made from blank weaver mount stock patterned off the ATI mount. Others have often used the side mounts and I am sure they will add their experiences and info as well. Is it a round receiver or hex? The ATI mounts are made really for the round receivers, but can be used on both. swamp_thing

#3 Toney

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Posted 28 February 2006 - 09:15 PM

Sog has got the Advanced Technology mount for $33 comes with the drill and tap

As Swamp says with a calipers to get it sentered up, the rifles are pretty soft and drill & tap easy. You can glue the mount on with epox and use the two drill method in the instructions, but i think using the right transfer punch to get the holes centered in the mount is the only way to go.

I don't really like the bolt handle installed with the screw, I think it would look a lot better welded on

#4 fritz

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Posted 28 February 2006 - 09:19 PM

First off, I would like to mention that I am not a fan of sporterizing the Mosin Nagant.

That said, here is a side mount (Weaver #1) on one of these fine? rifles. This was not the photo that got me banned from that "other place", but close to it---

http://img.photobuck...fritz/scope.jpg

Here is another way to go with the Mosin Nagant (if you are so inclined), but with my experience with these Russian developed rifles, I often ask myself "Why?"

http://img.photobuck...tz/1676762a.jpg


fritz

#5 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 05:24 AM

QUOTE(fritz @ Feb 28 2006, 09:19 PM) View Post

First off, I would like to mention that I am not a fan of sporterizing the Mosin Nagant.

That said, here is a side mount (Weaver #1) on one of these fine? rifles. This was not the photo that got me banned from that "other place", but close to it---

http://img.photobuck...fritz/scope.jpg

Here is another way to go with the Mosin Nagant (if you are so inclined), but with my experience with these Russian developed rifles, I often ask myself "Why?"

http://img.photobuck...tz/1676762a.jpg
fritz


Are you not a fan of sporterizing these rifles because of technical difficulties or philosophical reasons? I will have to leave the answer to the "why" question to my father in law. Since I haven't been a sporterizer thus far, performing a mod on an MN makes no less sense (to me) than it does on any other type of weapon.

#6 Doble Troble

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 09:16 AM

I suspect that fritz's lack of enthusiasm has more to do with accuracy problems post sporterizing effort than a philosophical problem. If you search the board you should be able to find some nice pix of his excellent MN sporterizing results.

I wasn't impressed with MN accuracy until I started using 0.312 diameter bullets, now my M38 is one of the most accurate milsurps in my stable.

If you don't think its a sin to sporterize your rifle then it isn't.

#7 Spiris

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 11:16 AM

Curioandrelic, You'll find many folks here who indeed enjoy sporterizing milsurps, and exibiting their pride of accomplishment in pictures and prose. There are quite a few knowledgeable and experienced machinist types who frequent the site and quite often, for the price of a question, will share their experience. You need not spend large sums of money to achieve your goals, but good equipment can't hurt. Most of the time, you'll find you have caught the sporterizing milsurp disease and won't know how, nor will you care, to quit. Take advantage of deals that you run across because most milsurps only appreciate in value. Welcome to the MFRC site. Your ideas and aspirations can run free here.

Spiris

#8 z1r

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 11:37 AM

Let me start out by saying that I have never actually sported a MN. But, If I were to, I'd probably opt for a scout mounted scope. Just to avoid all the hassle of bolt alteration, safety access, and mounting a scope on a split bridge. I have one here at home begging for alteration but it is way back in the long line of projects I have.



#9 usmc0332

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 08:28 PM

I am planning a project like this myself. I have an m38 with a scout mount from here http://www.crankyfar...com/mounts.html . I stripped the little screws and installed the mount with a roll pin. I never trusted them anyway. It is a good mount. They also have the ATI mount. I have seen scout mounts for as little as $11 but I do not know what they are like. This is the mount I plan on using on mine http://www.grafs.com...s/product/16940 and these rings http://www.grafs.com/product/17055 .Another mount system http://www.kalinkaop...ail.aspx?ID=179

I have seen the ATI synthetic stock here, as well as scout mounts. I have never done business here. http://www.gungarage...mosinnagant.htm

Here is a few sporter sites. http://makarov.com/cart/mosmount.htm http://www.gswagner..../mnsporter.html http://www.surplusri...rifle/index.asp. Surplus rifle has several articles on them. They are mixed into their 20 or so pages of articles. Here is a Russian site that has a couple of interesting ones. http://www.hpbt.org/articles/ots.htm Good luck with your project.

#10 diggerdanh

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 10:26 PM

Curioandrelic,

Welcome - Sounds like we may be a stones throw or two aways from each other. I live in Monroe and work in Loveland. It really is nice being close to AIM and SOG.

I agree with Z1R's recommendation about the scout mount - it is definitely the easiest way to go for the first time.

In fact that is exactly what I did - bought and installed a Darrell's scout mount, a used ATI stock that I picked up on ebay, and an inexpensive LER 2x scope. Added a decent sling and a cheap bipod and had a slick little rifle for about $100 + the initial cost of the MN. It's no Steyr Scout, but it's in the same neighborhood and for a whole lot less money.

IPB Image
(the bipod has since been moved to the front sling swivel - I was just trying it out on the barrel in this pic)

This kind of project really is a good introduction into sporterizing military surplus because it doesn't take a whole lot of skill, time or previous knowledge. However, I have to warn you (or your father-in-law) that by the time you wrap this one up - you'll be hooked.

Another recommendation is to start slow. Go with the scount mount and LER (or IER) scope first. Decide if you want to go with a synthetic ATI stock or a wood stock and then do that. Buy a bunch of surplus ammo and shoot it up. Maybe go with a Huber Concepts trigger later on. Perhaps cut down and recrown the barrel. Give it an Acraglass bedding job. Maybe get a sniper style bent bolt from Jim the Boltman. The sky is not the limit with the MN's, but there are a lot of things you can do with it and most of rifles (especially Russian 91/30s and various Finnish models) are pretty accurate. The M44's are not so accurate, but they do create a hell of a fireball.

#11 Guest_Stephanovich_*

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 07:52 PM

For anyone interested in sporterizing the M-N's, I suggest getting hold of the 1999 issue of GUN DIGEST. In it is an eleven page article by Jim Foral on the history of sporterizing the M-N's in the USA. Did you know that you could buy one for $3.34 in 1923 from the Director of Civilian Marksmanship, and ammo was going for $4.00 per thousand ? Good info in this article on how sporterizing was done 'back in the day' including many photographs. My 2 kopecks, ....Stephanovich

#12 fritz

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 10:17 PM

Accuracy, trigger pull, and ease? of safety all entered into my mind when I sporterized a few Mosin Nagants,

I know it can be done, but again I ask the question "WHY"?

If I devoted HALF of the time spent on sporterizing Mosin Nagants to the time spent on sporterizing Mausers, I would be miles, years, yes rifles, ahead.

The accuracy gained from sporterizing a Mosin Nagant is not nearly as great as the accuracy gained by sporterizing a Mauser.

I guess all my illfated attempts at trying to get better accuracy out of a Mosin Nagant can be just attributed to the question---what do you really expect to get out of these things?

fritz

#13 z1r

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Posted 03 March 2006 - 12:10 AM

I'm the biggest mauser fan abouts, at least one of them anyway. But, have you ever considered that one of if not THE most succesful snipers used a MN? He sure had no problem getting accuracy out of a MN.

Now I'm tempeted to sport the only sportable MN I have just to prove they can be accurate.

I haven't wanted to go down the sporter road not because I thought they were incapable of sufficient accuracy but because I personally think they don't make nice looking sporters as well as the issues I mentioned earlier.

With a decent peep sight these would make up into a trip little woods carbine easily.

#14 usmc0332

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Posted 03 March 2006 - 12:04 PM

I was thinking of a Duracoat camo job on one of these with a modified original stock. Does anyone have any hints on using Duracoat on wood? I was thinking I may dishwash the wood and seal it with some old epoxy that I have. I figure the Duracoat will not be stronger than what it is applied over.

I see Williams makes a sight assembly with a ghost ring rear blade. I do not shoot a V notch rear sight well. But I want a side mount scope to go along with a barrel mounted rear sight. How do you figure compatable sight heights? I do not want to own stock in Williams sight blades.

These guns are FUN. We all have fun blasting away with mine at summertime informal shoots.

#15 z1r

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Posted 03 March 2006 - 12:56 PM

USMC0332,

You should look into a cocking piece peep. It will give you the maximum sight radius and utilizes that huge knob for something.

#16 fritz

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Posted 04 March 2006 - 09:15 PM

"You should look into a cocking piece peep. It will give you the maximum sight radius and utilizes that huge know for something."

The problem with that (for accuracy) is that on many of these Mosin Nagants, as you are pulling that horrible trigger the quarter mile, that cocking piece moves (therefor your rear sight).

fritz

#17 z1r

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Posted 04 March 2006 - 09:36 PM

The way I see it is that it doesn't matter where the unit moves once the sear has disengaged. As long as the sights were lined up properly at that point. I hear lots of negative comments from folks that have never used one. those that have find the accuracy to be more than adequate.

#18 carzngunz

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Posted 04 March 2006 - 10:04 PM

fritz,
I know what you mean about that trigger. My m44 feels like you pull it at least 1/4 mile through a gravel pit with the cocking piece assembly doing a little dance the whole time!

#19 usmc0332

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Posted 05 March 2006 - 01:12 AM

I appreciate the idea of a cocking piece peep sight. My fear is that I would get to add to the beauty marks already on my face in using one of those, esp with it down due to using a scope. One not-thinking habitual bolt operation and I may find myself sitting in the Veteranarians office adding to my stitch count. I was already contemplating adding a safety extension (small bolt handle) in the notch of the cocking knob, as the weaver side mount fits very close to the receiver. I think that the safety being obstructed by the scope I could weld in a handy little extension to make it easier to use. I need to get working on one of these soon as CABIN FEVER is kicking my behind.

#20 fritz

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Posted 05 March 2006 - 08:44 PM

"Now I'm tempeted to sport the only sportable MN I have just to prove they can be accurate."

Good luck, and in the meantime that you are doing this feat, we will have sported 10 Mausers.

I have no doubt it can be done.

My thought is, Why?

fritz





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