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I've been following the trend in Shotgun News. There was a series of articles on it with step-by-steps and different techniques, from using a miling machine to a drill press. It's the latest thing. Even Sportsmans Guide is selling 80% lowers and the tools/jigs. You can even get a 80% 1911 frame now at Sportsmans Guide.

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Like the one guy said, you can probably buy one complete for less than you will have into building one from pieces. Same can be said for building a Mauser or any other rifle. But, you can buy parts as you can find and afford them. Kinda like making payments. And you do learn a lot about how they work.

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When you can buy a nice AR rifle at wally world for five hundred plus tax, it is real hard to justify building your own from scratch, but I'm sure it's a good learning experience. I've even seen stripped lowers in the $50 range, and the cheapest 80%'er is significantly over that, not counting the bits, jigs, etc.

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if I had the parts or many of them, I would try it.But as I don't.

I would just buy an AR if I wanted one ...which I DONT.

Never really liked the M-16 that much to want a AR type rifle.

Nothing in life in impossible I guess; but that is close.

 

karl

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With the low cost poly framed AR's hitting the market. I can't see building one unless one wanted to do it clandestinely keeping it paperless. Smith and Wesson is building a low cost, metal lower AR for under 5 bills. S&W's economy model uses the conventional gas impingement and does not have a forward assist.

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I don't claim to be an AR expert either. However, I have put a few thousand rounds through them, never in anger, of course. Now, some comments, guys:

Before I had one with a forward assist, I thought that was really needed. I shoot mostly reloads, and sometimes they are pretty tight to get into the chamber. My Colt doesn't have a forward assist. That first round would sometimes not close, so I'd have to eject it and go. Never had a problem with it when it was firing. That is, even if the round was tight, under recoil, it would pick it up and close. Then I built a rifle (documented elsewhere here) on a receiver I bought at a local gun shop. It has a forward assist. The chamber is a 223 Wylde. Anyway, shooting the same reloads, they are also too tight for the chamber. I thought, hey, forward assist, that will get it closed. Nope. Doesn't work that way. Maybe if I took a hammer to the forward assist, it might close, but that's it. So, based on my experience, forward assist is about useless. If it is not going to close by itself, it is not going to close with a forward assist either. Maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't care about forward assist anymore and given the choice, I would not put one on.

 

The AR's of today are a different breed than the AR's of 30+ years ago. My Colt is about as close to an original AR15 as us civilians can get. Besides being semi-auto only, of course, it has the 3 prong flash hider with the ring on the end, so it is slightly later than the first open 3 prong flash hider, otherwise, it is as Stoner originally designed it, triangular hand guards, pencil barrel and all.

 

The modern AR has diverged greatly from that gun. Today's AR's are more "designer." You can have an M4 style, which is more like a SMG for handling characteristics, or a long range style, like the one I built, that will actually (they say) hit things out at 600+ yards with bullets in the 70-80GR range and retain enough energy at that range to do damage. Everything is fully customizable. Target triggers, combat triggers, barrels, stocks, and then the accessories you can add to it. Lights, lasers, coffee makers, etc. Reliability is up (they say) on the new stuff. The magazine followers were redesigned and the barrel extension feed ramps were modified. Still not AK reliable, but then the accuracy is much better. Oh, and accuracy: Sub MOA on the new stuff. Even the M4 style have pretty good accuracy, in the 2MOA-ish range or better, from what I've been reading. My old Colt could never do that.

 

Then, there are all the different uppers/calibers available. 300 Blackout is a 223 with a shortened case expanded out to 30 caliber. Feeds from regular magazines and in regular lower receivers. Actually, all you need to do is put a different barrel on any upper, but a whole upper set up for 300 makes it easy to change calibers. There are many different calibers available for just swapping an upper receiver. And there's the AR pistol fad.

 

So, things are different with the new AR's. No, they're not Mausers, but they have a place.

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I discovered I didn't need a forward assist on my 70's Colt AR-15 sub model SP-1 after discovering the RCBS small base sizing die. I had some problems at first with FTF's and lacking the forward assist was problematic. The problem were my handloaded 223's originally made for a bolt action. Since I began using the SB sizing die I have not had a single failure to feed.

My shooting buds that were smart enough to invest in legal full autos including M-16 A-1's before the law changed. Claim the forward assist is sometimes needed after firing hundreds of rounds at a single outing but the stubborn bolt is more easily fixed and a good indicator of it needing a cleaning or oil. Guess if I carried an AR into a battlefield I'd want the forward assist but for casual shooting and plinking it is not necessary.

If you check out the history of the US Military adopting the Stoner System. The A/F were issued models without a forward assist. At the Army's insistence it was added.

ar-1.jpg

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Before I had one with a forward assist, I thought that was really needed. I shoot mostly reloads, and sometimes they are pretty tight to get into the chamber. My Colt doesn't have a forward assist. That first round would sometimes not close, so I'd have to eject it and go. Never had a problem with it when it was firing. That is, even if the round was tight, under recoil, it would pick it up and close.

Doc the problem sounds nearly what I went through when I got my first AR in the 70's. I was just getting into serious reloading and going through a learning curve. I was crimping the necks and slightly swelling the shoulder. In a bolt action the leverage from camming over the bolt forced the cartridge home. My AR's recoil spring didn't have enough oomph to over come the very slightly swelled shoulder.

 

Back then, no internet and if I couldn't find the problem in a book. I was on my own. After numerous back and forth correspondence with RCBS. I sent them an umprimed, empty cartridge with a seated bullet and my die set. RCBS returned a small base sizing die. They also included an extra expander ball I assume was slightly smaller in diameter as the bullets stayed in tighter. RCBS recommended I use boatail bullets and not to crimp.

 

In the numerous years since, perhaps thousands through my AR. Not a single FTF. Currently I use the Lee 223 Factroy Crimp Die. As Lee claims, accuracy did improve and because of Lee's design. I can't over crimp the neck causing the shoulder to swell.

 

Another method I've heard, most likely net chatter. If one does not have a small base sizing die. Screw the sizing die into press deeper and literally jam the face of the shell holder very hard against the bottom of the die. Supposedly it moves the cartridge's shoulder back a few thousands more and slides right into an AR chamber. With sales of AR's literally exploding the past 20 years. I assume die manufactures have taken the AR in mind with their sizing die dimensions. My 1970's die set I bought used most likely was manufactured with bolt actions in mind.

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BTW Karl, I was just jerking your chain. I know you're not a real Pinko. :wub: I too like the SKS but I'm not particularly fond of the one I have now. My first late 70's and early 80's Chinese SKS's had the pinned barrel, chrome lined bore and decent wood. My second one also had the above features but used the standard AK 30 rd mag. #3 was a cool, short paratrooper model that also took AK mags. I foolishly traded them all away.

 

At the time I traded I had a FFL and could buy SKS's dirt cheap. As cheap as $39.00 each if I bought a gross on a pallet. I was unaware of the quality declining or I may have held on to them. Never expected Bill Ruger to sell us out on Capital Hill helping to bring about the ban on many SKS variations.

 

My current SKS does not have the pinned barrel, chrome lined bore and the wood appears to have been made from recycled popsicle sticks. Shot to shot accuracy takes a nose dive as the barrel heats up.

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My RCBS die set, also, is from the mid 70's when I bought it new. I recently bought one of the new RCBS 223 die sets specifically made for AR's. I haven't used it yet, as I'm still working through stuff I reloaded 25 years ago, but I bought it for the reasons you give. I use those Lee factory crimp dies too.

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I had to get a RCBS die set specifically labeled "7MM Mag Browning BAR". My original and considerably cheaper Lee brand dies did not work well at all in my BAR. So far, so good in my M-1 rifle. My cheapie Lee brand RGB 30/06 dies have worked well but at best I've only put 50 or so hand loaded rds through it.

 

I really like the Lee crimp dies but avoid using them with home cast lead handgun loads. The carbide ring will reduce the size of the lead slug. I found that out the hard way leading up the bore on a 44 mag. Not a problem with 45 Colt as some Colts had a 454 sized bore. I assume Lee took it into consideration as the carbide ring either does not or just very slightly touches the cartridge in my 452 sized lead slugs. The handgun FCD's are the cat's meow loading factory jacketed bullets. Puts a very firm grip on the bullet and it stays put. Before the FCD was around I had occasional problems with jacketed bullets in a revolver cylinder working their way loose from recoil in 41 and 44 mags.

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There is a bunch of net chatter in regards to the paperless 80% lowers. If anybody had decided to go that route. Now is the time to at least purchase the lower. I know there is some legislation currently being drawn up in KKKalifornia. With ATF and the prez enacting regs and law through bureaucratic decree. A stroke of the pen or a phone call from Obama. Stamped serial numbers and manufacturing licensing may be coming in the very near future. Some Left Coast legislators are trying to prohibit manufacturing by individuals. Apparently they're in a panic mode still convinced anybody can build a working AR-15 with a printer.

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  • 3 weeks later...
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When you can buy a nice AR rifle at wally world for five hundred plus tax, it is real hard to justify building your own from scratch, but I'm sure it's a good learning experience. I've even seen stripped lowers in the $50 range, and the cheapest 80%'er is significantly over that, not counting the bits, jigs, etc.

Fyi 80% lowers can be found for $30. Takes me 12 mins of machining time to complete one with my mill with about an hour of set up. If you have the tools for most other machining nothing else is needed. A few drill bits and end mills is it. With a set of prints which you can get free you don't need a jig. Now without a mill I wouldn't think about it. But it is a fun project.

Don

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