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91 Mauser Magazine


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#1 58gscott

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 08:32 PM

Hello! Is there any way the magazine on a 91 mauser can be changed like that of other Mausers with A magazine up in the stock? The 93 Mauser has a different bolt pattern than a 91, though both small ring actions. Any suggestions? 58gscott

#2 Frank46

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 01:03 AM

QUOTE (58gscott @ Jan 11 2009, 08:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hello! Is there any way the magazine on a 91 mauser can be changed like that of other Mausers with A magazine up in the stock? The 93 Mauser has a different bolt pattern than a 91, though both small ring actions. Any suggestions? 58gscott


Don't think it can be done. First off the stock is to "thin" not enough meat where the magazine would go. Second id the bottom of the receiver helps align the magazine so that it is in the proper position and then you have the magazine retaining screw with the lug that captures the slot on the front of the magazine. And if you look at a small ringed mauser action the standard magazine comes up from the bottom and the back part of this magazine has to have a space milled out for it. And that brings us back to the wood on the bottom of the stock where the single stack magazine for the '91 mauser is. A lot of folks who shoot these rifles like them just the way they are as even though they have the 5 round single stack mag sticking out still find it easy to carry with the hand being just in front of the mag. I don't think you are going to gain anything useful by converting to the mauser type magazine box versus the 5 round single stack mag. This is not meant as a condemation of your project. It just serves as maybe why it shouldn't be done. Now having said all this watch out, someone will come online and say here is my conversion of a '91 mauser to a standard mauser type box magazine. I'm not saying it can't be done.
Just my 2 cents worth. Frank

#3 Vladymere

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 02:00 PM

I have a Gew.88 based sporting rifle. The five round, single column, charger loading magazine has been changed to a three round, single column, smooth bottomed, non-projecting magazine. You could probably do something like that.

Vlad

#4 58gscott

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 03:01 PM

Thank you! For your comments. I see the reasoning on the amount of wood issue. Just thought doing something different to the magazine would clean up the look as well as give a more sporter feel to it. Love the rifle! Shoots like the dickens, just wanting to purty it up alittle bit. Guess I'll leave it as she is! Thanks again gentlemen! 58gscott

#5 Frank46

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 01:14 AM

Been giving this some more thought. One way is do a blind magazine conversion similar to what remington does on some of their 700's. The other way is a little more involved. But there is a problem as the 91 mag doesn't use a regular mauser type follower spring. Here is what I think would work. First off cut off the mag locking screw located just next to the front of the trigger guard, tig weld over this screw and finish the area like the front. Next remove the locking bar and spring, tig weld the hole in the trigger guard and where the locking bar was. Add extra weld and file it down even with the slope on the front of the guard bow. Find a piece of metal that will fit inside the opening where the mag was and tig weld and finish. Measure the distance from the inside of the now finished mag well to the inlet in the action where the mag goes. Cut the mag in two horizontally. Trim the bottom until you get the required distance measurement. Do not weld at this time. Get a 98 mauser follower spring and another piece of metal that will become the new follower. Measure and cut or file so that it approximates the origional follower that came with the mag. Grind the 98 mauser spring to just fit freely inside both sections of the mag. Tape them together so you can see how it fits. Then take the new follower you made drill two holes through both the spring and follower. Drill and tap 8x32 through the new follower. screw two 8x32 screws (make sure they are steel.) file or grind whatever part of the screws that protrude through the follower. Then polish the top of the follower. Tig weld the two halves of the mag together. Almost forgot, you'll have to remove the lifter and spring and reshape the mag so it will fit inside the space on the inside of the blanked off trigger guard. I suggested tig welding as you should get little or no warping due to the welding. Stick or oxy all bets are off. Tig is much cleaner and heat is localized. Now after saying all this, I think the blind mag setup should work and be way less labor intensive. Course you'll still have to fabricate a filler plate to fill the space the mag goes through, cut flush and tig weld the mag retention screw, and fill in the holes where the locking bar and spring are in the guard bow. And I think you should be able to use the origional stock. Should have 2-3 round capacity. If you decide to use the blind mag idea don't trash the mag. Thats the liner you'll be making for your stock. You need to make sure that the front of the mag where the feed portion butts up against the feed ramp on the action is a good fit. Otherwise you could end up shaving brass off the cases or getting the bullet stuck. Have seen one or two that didn't quite make a good fit and did shave brass.. Think I got it all. Lots of work, but if you are handy
you should be able to get the blind mag fitted and working. Hope this helps. My fingers are tired. Frank

#6 z1r

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 09:18 AM

The 91 has the feed lips in the magazine, the 93-98 have feedrails. the 91 lacks these making a 98 style mag impractical. Shortening the mag is the most sensible approach but hey, anything can be done with enough time & effort.

#7 58gscott

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 05:21 PM

QUOTE (z1r @ Jan 13 2009, 09:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The 91 has the feed lips in the magazine, the 93-98 have feedrails. the 91 lacks these making a 98 style mag impractical. Shortening the mag is the most sensible approach but hey, anything can be done with enough time & effort.

These are both interesting ideas. And both worth serious thought. The blind mag is a great look, one that I was kinda thinking towards, but wasn't sure of the process. Thanks for the ideas! 58gscott

#8 Frank46

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 01:57 AM

There is a way to do a blind magazing conversion. Just depends how much of the work you can do yourself, and how much work has to be farmed out.Take the trigger guard, cut and remove the mag lock screw assemble, remove the mag locking bar and spring. tig weld the holes left by the screw and the holes left by the mag locking bar and spring. Tig these holes as well as the one in the trigger guard. Get a piece of cold rolled steel and cut itto slightly the same dimensions as the opening left by the origional magazing. This in effect becomes the floor plate for your new blind maagazine. Next you will have to remove the follower and its spring, then remove the floor platelifter and curved spring from the floor plate. Cut off the bottom of the magazine it wont be used any more. Then with the magazine firmly in place as if the magazine was still the way cartridges were stored and fed into the chamber. Measure the distance from the inside where you can get a rule even with the fees lips on either side of the magazine. since you have already cut off the bottom of the magazine and managed to get a fairly straight cut. That tells you just how deep your now cut up mag is. remove mag. reinstall reworked trigger guard assembly so that action is now inside the inletting in the stock. Use both screws to hold reworked trigger guard into the bottom of the stock. Measure the distance from the bottom of the trigger guard to approximately where the feed lips on the mag would be. At this poing using this dimension you can cut away some more of the mag. This is going to be a cut until it fits type of deal.as you get close to where the fit approximates where a normal mag would be you may have to resort to the use of files to fine tune your fitting. When you get the fit with the action and trigger guard are snug, take the now reworked mag. fabricate and install a new floor plate and tigweld floorplate onto magazine. Suggest that the piece you cut and weld should be fitted to go inside the magazine only as far as to completely necessary and tig weld the floorplate. For the follower which is basically nothing more than a flat piece of metal make up anew one slightly wider and longer. Take a 98 mauser mag spring and grind one side a little at a time so you get a nice friction fir. Drill two holes through the floorplate and spring set up as a unit. One hole near the front of the floorplate and the second about a 1/2" from the front. tap these holes 8x32 from the bottom and set two 8x32 screws into these holes. Cut off the protruding screw stock thats above the top of the follower. Polish the top of the follower to lessen friction. The screws will hold the top leaf of the 98 spring up against the follower, Its a lot of cutting, welding. I choose tig welding so as to lessen the chances of anything warping as the heat is localized. You might want to make a jig to hold the trigger guard in place because you have two thin rails where the mag passed through. Have a good tig welder make you a nice mannlicher schoenaur bolt handle and welt it out from the stock. This way you won't have to carve a great big slot for it in the stock. Bead blast the action,barrel,blind gag box, follower and spring and whatever else you want, leave the bolt polished or engine turned your choice. D&T for whatever iron sights you will be using, clean up any burrs from the D&T operation then blue the beast. Hopefully you will have a three round mag maybe two. Load one up the spout two in the mag and away you go. Its still a lot of work even to get a blind mag conversion to work. Lotta cutting, grinding, filing not to mention weldingBut you should have a 1891 argentine with a bling mag where there once was a five round mag. easier to carry with your hands around the balance point (action) OK my fingers are tired. Check it out and see what you think. Frank

#9 Frank46

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 02:17 AM

Forgot one thing, When you tig weld the trigger guard where the lock screw and locking bar and spring were you'll have to file down any weld. You should try to maintain the same contours on the front of the trigger guard and where the locking bar and spring was in the front of the guard itself. This will leave a sharply defined slant where the mag slid up into the mag well.
you can leave it this way or choose to round off the curve and thin the width of the trigger guard bow. I'd try and keep the width of the trigger guard bow slightly more than the width of the inletted section of the trigger guard unit. To get really crazy you could install steel or aluminium pillars and pillar bed the action. But since the origional trigger guard screws had a liner in the stock and if you don't remove them then pillar bedding becomes a moot point. Glass the recoil lug and receiver ring andmaybe the rear and underside of the tang. But that should be that. FRank

#10 58gscott

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 11:40 AM

Frank thank you for your info! I can do all of the work myself, I am a metal tooler in a bronze foundry in Joseph Oregon. So I tig weld all day, and grind and sand bronze sculptures, and tool in the detail back into the metal like the original piece. This will give me some direction to go with this 91. She is a great shooter as she is, Privi 180 BTs into a nice little cluster at 100yrds. She's already scoped, I have cut and bent the bolt, need to do some trigger work. Thank you for your tired fingers, and expertise! 58gscott

#11 Frank46

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 01:38 PM

Scott, I was sure I had seen this in some gun magazine or book but couldn't remember (CRS) where. So did the best next thing. Wrote it out as I would have done it. Pretty sure that in essence what I typed should give you a good idea as to how it should go. Lotta guessing, figuring, fitting, filing and probably cussing as well. I had planned to do something like this years ago when these rifles were cheap. But never could find someone who could do the tig welding. So now that these rifles aren't cheap anymore decided that they look better with the full mag. I can't hunt anymore, but love to punch paper. Have two cutdown 91's. Both with iron sights. Have fun, Frank

#12 ENBLOC

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 07:40 PM

My Dad had his magazine shortened by a tool & die guy at work to hold two rounds. He was sick and tired of People asking if his 1891 Sporterized Mauser was a Carcano?!! The gun now resides out in Massachusetts at my Sisters' to "Kill the Coyotes" I'm sure those 180 grain bullets I loaded up will do the job! I don't have any problems with the Original Magazine and leave the Mauser design as designed. Took my first game with the 7.65 x 53mm in an early anterless hunt in Michigan with my recently acquired 1891 Argentine Sporter off of Gunbroker. Glass bedded the stock and she puts two bullets in same hole at 50 yards!

#13 Doble Troble

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 08:55 PM

I love my 91. I had to "dent" the magazine for it to keep down 7 x 57 rounds. I sure didn't like denting anything on that beautifully machined action (and it sure wasn't easy - those mag lips are hard).

I didn't have anything against the 7.65 x 53, the action came without a barrel, and I had an unfired 7 mm barrel on hand looking for a receiver.

It became a sweet little carbine, magazine and all.




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