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429 Desert Eagle


Dr.Hess

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So, the Moonies, I mean, Magnum Research, came out with a new bullet and barrel for the Desert Eagle.  It's basically a 44 Magnum Magnum.  A 50 AE necked down to 44 (0.429) caliber.  It's said to push a 240GR bullet to close to 1700 FPS.  Somewhere around 1500 FT LBS, and about 45% more powerful than a 44 Magnum.  They Say.  I had to have one and bought a barrel for my DE.  I have the complete set, 357, 44 mag, 50AE in the hard case.  Now there's a 429DE barrel in the case too.


The 429DE uses the same bolt as the 44MAG and 50AE, and the 50AE magazine.  Have all that, so only needed a barrel and I've now got 4 calibers for this completely useless and hysterical to shoot handgun.  Next up, some ammo.

Magnum Research is the only ammo supplier at the moment.  They use brass made by Star Line and sold exclusively to Magnum Research.  Making brass seems easy enough.  I made 7x57 out of 30-06, so how much harder could it be?  I bought a bag of Star Line 50AE brass at Cabellas.  Dies, well, all the news releases say there will be dies from Lee, Hornady, etc. for this.  BS.  Lee is the only game in town and they had it listed but "on backorder."  First backorder date was March 1.  I ordered a set at the end of February.  March 1 came and went and they said "March 15."   They did ship around the 15th and I got the dies.  No factory crimp die available.  I suggested they make one. 

This evening, while waiting for my powder coated 240 GR hard cast boolits to cook, I dug out the stuff and started forming brass.  I have found that the Best Case Lube Ever is 100% pure food grade lanolin.  I smeared some on the case, put it in my RCBS Jr press (grossly abusing it for forming cases, especially the 7x57 which needed a cheater bar, but hey, they made good stuff in the 70's.)  Ran it up into the Lee resizing die with the decapper removed in a few stages and... Out came a 429DE case, just a tad long.  That was it for tonight.  Next up, case trimming and some pictures.

 

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Doc if I remember right. Lee can custom make the crimp dies. For case forming lube I used STP. STP in a tube was sold at bicycle shops about 20 years ago. I'm not sure it still is available. From what I've read lanolin was popular as a sizing lube in the 50's. Lanolin men's so called hair tonic was also used. The hair tonic for the greasy kids look was lanolin, alcohol and a strong perfume. I'm guessing but I believe the brand names were Vitalis and Brillcream but Alberto's VO5 didn't work as a case lube. 

I'm curious if the lead slugs at that velocity will lead the barrel. Are you using gas checks?? Years ago I shot bare bottom, rolled in Lee goo lead slugs in a 30/30 and leaded up the barrel pretty bad. No crony and the estimated published velocity from a manual was apx 2,100. The leading may have also been caused by Marlin's micro-groove rifling. 

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I  bought a tub of the lanolin from amazon for ten bucks.  I would say it is approaching a lifetime supply.  I use it on leather too, which uses it up much faster.  You can buy it at Walmart in a smaller tube for ten bucks too, sold as "nipple cream" in the nursing mothers section. 

I haven't had any problems with leading up barrels with my powder coated bullets.  No gas checks.  I casted some 30's and loaded them up pretty hot in 30-30.  Barrel was squeaky clean.  Same thing with 44 mag in the DE.  Full power loads, no leading, no residue in the gas system.

I might call Lee and see if they can make me one custom.  There is like an hour wait on hold to get through to them for anything, but they will eventually answer. Right now, my plan is to seat the bullet with the die out, that is, seat it only, then remove the seating plunger, screw the die in to a pretty tight crimp and crimp it with a second pass.  If you do it all at once with a tight crimp and a cast bullet, stuff shaves off.  Powdercoating or lead.  So I think in 2 passes, I should be OK.

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That's actually how I got the idea for the lanolin.  I had bought a bottle of Dillon's case lube spray a few decades ago.  It was pretty good stuff.  Put the shells in a cookie sheet, spray a few times, roll around.  The plastic bottle disintegrated long before I used it up. It smelled a whole lot like rubbing alcohol and the label said lanolin.  I experimented with the Nipple Cream from Walmart plus some rubbing alcohol in a spray bottle, but couldn't get it to dissolve properly.  Eventually, I gave up on it and just tried the lanolin straight, putting some on my fingers and rubbing the cases, like the old school solid case lubes.  It worked great, so that's all I use now.  So much better than rolling on the case pad.  And even with the forces involved in converting 30-06 to 7x57, no problems at all.

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On 3/23/2019 at 5:59 AM, Dr.Hess said:

I  bought a tub of the lanolin from amazon for ten bucks.  I would say it is approaching a lifetime supply.  I use it on leather too, which uses it up much faster.  You can buy it at Walmart in a smaller tube for ten bucks too, sold as "nipple cream" in the nursing mothers section. 

I haven't had any problems with leading up barrels with my powder coated bullets.  No gas checks.  I casted some 30's and loaded them up pretty hot in 30-30.  Barrel was squeaky clean.  Same thing with 44 mag in the DE.  Full power loads, no leading, no residue in the gas system.

I might call Lee and see if they can make me one custom.  There is like an hour wait on hold to get through to them for anything, but they will eventually answer. Right now, my plan is to seat the bullet with the die out, that is, seat it only, then remove the seating plunger, screw the die in to a pretty tight crimp and crimp it with a second pass.  If you do it all at once with a tight crimp and a cast bullet, stuff shaves off.  Powdercoating or lead.  So I think in 2 passes, I should be OK.

Doc been a few years but I usually got an email response overnight from Lee on tech questions. If a taper crimp will hold, a short pass through an empty 44 mag sizing die might work. Don't know if they still do but best I recall. Redding will make custom crimp dies. Redding had a name I just can't recall for their fancy crimp dies. I got one several years ago for use with 45 Auto Rim as all die manufactures only had taper crimp dies for 45 ACP. I was close to grinding down a 45 Colt die to get a good roll crimp. I then heard about Redding crimp dies somewhere on the net. 

EDIT: Google says, Redding Profile Crimp dies

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I was looking at the Midway site, and they showed a Lee die set for the 429DE.  On closer inspection, it is a 3 die set that comes with the accucrimp die.  Somehow, Lee sold that set to Midway, but on their web site, where I ordered the set, they didn't show it.  Oh well.  I am tempted to just buy the midway set for $32 versus trying to deal with Lee direct to get the die. Wouldn't surprise me if the costs were the same when it was all done.

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Just ordered the 3 die set from Midway.  $33 shipped.  Free shipping today on $49 orders.  Like I can't find something else I need.  Lee didn't list the factory crimp die for 429DE at all, but lists their other factory crimp dies for over $20 plus shipping.  I figured I'd just get the whole set for the same price.  Hopefully the set is as shown on the Midway site and not the same as Lee sells.  If it's not the same as described, I'll send it back.

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I even did the "Chat..." thing to make sure it came with the crimp die.  After waiting a half hour, they connected the chat and said yes.  So if it comes with the expander die instead, like the exact same part number has on the Lee page, back it goes.  Midway customer support has always been excellent.  Beyond excellent, so I'm not worried.

I ordered a 200 Grain Lee mold.  I figure a 200GR bullet in the 429DE should really have some velocity. 

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Doc, I'll be curious after the crimp die arrives if it will have the carbide post sizing ring. I doubt it, it being a bottle neck cartridge. I will also be curious about the velocity you get with 200gr slugs, 2000 FPS and more might be achievable. Jacketed soft nose or HP's would be deadly on deer and a bad guy won't likely return. Be interesting to see how close you can get the velocity compared to the 444 Marlin in Thompson Contender. 

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I kinda need to get a chronograph.  Now, I can just work a load up looking for pressure signs.  But I bet I can get those 200GR's moving pretty good.  I was thinking of starting out at a hot 44MAG powder charge and going up from there.  There is no load data for this cartridge.  The AA#11FS powder has data for 44MAG.  "FS" means "Flash Suppressed." 

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Well, the dies came in today from Midway.  As I suspected, they are the same as I bought from Lee direct; no accucrimp.  Back they go. 

 

Looking at load data I have for 44MAG and 200Gr bullets, I think 2K FPS is very achievable in this.  The max loads I have for 44MAG are about 1800 FPS, and 429DE is said to have 25% more velocity than similar 44MAG.

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Thanks, Karl.  I'll get all the data tomorrow.  This is what I have right now:

image.png.4b1a232fa3b22c5749e3f50bc7bc3270.png

 

image.png.b6b0c2025a816a970a3e73f342e0a8ec.png

 

I have seen some load data for the 50AE that is a listed as a tad over 51,000, but I didn't see any units and I suspect that is CUP, which would be about 38,000 PSI.  I think 38K PSI should be a good enough guess for maximum.  SAAMI lists a maximum pressure for 50AE in the same range as a 44MAG, around 38,000 PSI.  The Max loaded length should be the same as a 44MAG or 50AE, which I see listed as 1.610", but the official SAAMI spec sheet for a 50AE says 1.595".

Note that Nosler shows for a 44 MAG, a 200GR bullet, H110 powder (generally considered to be identical to WIN296) charge of 28.0GR, velocity of 1798 out of a 8.25" barrel, 118% load density.  That sounds like a starting load to me.

Tomorrow, I'll go out in the garage and measure the barrel land/grooves and fill a case with water.

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Doc I think you're on track for a Crony. Half the fun with the monster cartridge is going to see how fast you can get it moving. If ballistic gel wasn't such a PITA. Bet you could get some amazing bullet expansion. Might want to start hoarding gallon milk bottles. You've got the English skills, keep good notes, write an article and see if you can't get it published. I've often ordered what the gun rag authors get paid. A former co-worker used to pick up a few bucks writing short sci-fi stories. He also picked up a nice chunk of change writing a script for Star Trek 2. Last I heard he was still at the Post Office, so he obviously couldn't make a living at it. 

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I see that crony's start out at about a bill at Midway.  I may just do that.  I guess after 45 years of reloading, it may be time.  So your co-worker wrote Star Trek 2?  That was probably the best of the movies.  Cool.  Wikipedia (it must be true, idiots wrote it) says: Story by Harve Bennett and Jack B. Sowards.

 

OK, Karl, I did some measuring.

Water capacity of an empty shell:  47.4Grains.

As for the rifling, well, it's not conventional at all.  It's polygonal.  Hexagonal, specifically.  I measured 0.410" across the faces of the sides, which gives me an area of 0.14558", if my maffs be right.

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The two exact bullets I plan on using are my Lee mold hard (water dropped) cast 200GR and 240GR, powder coated, sized to 0.429".  I can get you an exact weight on the 240GR if you need it, but otherwise assume 238GR, and 198GR for the "200."  Alloy v. rated size of the mold, addition of powder coat (adds a slight amount,) etc.

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19 hours ago, Dr.Hess said:

I see that crony's start out at about a bill at Midway.  I may just do that.  I guess after 45 years of reloading, it may be time.  So your co-worker wrote Star Trek 2?  That was probably the best of the movies.  Cool.  Wikipedia (it must be true, idiots wrote it) says: Story by Harve Bennett and Jack B. Sowards.

 

OK, Karl, I did some measuring.

Water capacity of an empty shell:  47.4Grains.

As for the rifling, well, it's not conventional at all.  It's polygonal.  Hexagonal, specifically.  I measured 0.410" across the faces of the sides, which gives me an area of 0.14558", if my maffs be right.

Sorry for being misleading. He wrote the script for a single show of TV Star Trek. It was the second Star Trek series with Capt Picard. The rumor mill had him getting paid 10 grand but I don't know for certain. 

Back in the 70's I delivered mail to a house that got every lonely heart and true romance magazine imaginable. After meeting him one day at his mailbox and handing him a handful of magazines. He told me he writes stories for the magazines and he subscribes to so many to be sure nobody is stealing or plagiarizing his work. If published he wants to make sure he got paid. Judging by his mountian top home and trophy woman he did well. 

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OK, Az, I remember that series.  After they got rid of "Wesley," it got better.  For the whole series, they generally had plots around just a few things:  Android problems, Klingon problems, holodeck problems, Q problems, computer problems and for the first part, stuff Wesley screwed up.

 

Karl,

I can read that fine.  I assume that's the load to never get to, based on the warning and slight over pressure.  Looks to about duplicate the lighter factory bullet. Can you run it for the 240GR?  This is very helpful.

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That does look like a good piece of coding.  Lots of maffs in that thing.  Like calculus and stuff. I only took Calculus for Dummies at TAMU, AKA "Business Calculus." I'll have to think about buying it, though, at around $160.

 

I'm thinking about this Competition Electronics ProChrono:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/113204/competition-electronics-prochrono-pal-chronograph

 

They sell spare sky screen things for ten bucks.  It seems to me that they get shot up occasionally and that would be a good thing.  I've had reasonable success with Caldwell stuff too, and they have something similar but with more wires and interfaces with your phone for $129: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/628006/caldwell-ballistic-precision-chronograph-premium-kit

 

 

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Haven't had a chance to load it up and try it yet.  Been busy with maintenance stuff.  When I retire someday, or get retired (I'm the oldest person in the office.  Maybe the company,) I am quite sure I can be busy every single day.

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