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Gew 88 Sporters?


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#1 Kyle

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 06:10 PM

I'm planning on building at least one Gew 88 sporter rifle I got from Centerfire and I was just wondering if anyone has done a Gew 88 sporter before.

I'll probably keep one in the original 8x57 but I don't see why you couldn't do something like 30-06.



#2 Doble Troble

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 06:29 PM

Why not just ream-out the original barrel to 8 mm Rem Mag?





...just kidding.

I wouldn't recommend a modern, high-intensity cartridge in one of the old Mauser actions. They may be fine, but what if they're not?

I wouldn't keep it as an 8 x 57 either, especially after having a had a surplus Turk case head seperate in a 98 action. You definitely don't want that hapening in an earlier action. If you're going to reload and be buried with it, maybe.

Why not use an action that is well-established to be up to the task of a modern cartridge? There are lots of Mauser 98s out there at minimal cost.

If you're determined to sport the 88, there's not much a 7 x 57 can't do that a 30-06 will. If you really want a 30 cal, how about a 7.65 x 53? It's better than a 308 and no-one will say that you're irresponsibly hot-rodding an old rifle (but you should also be careful to not hot rod it).

#3 Kyle

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 08:22 PM

Right now I'm thinking that whatever caliber I keep it in will be based on the x57 case to insure the rifle won't have trouble feeding the rounds.

Right now I'm entertaining the idea of building a Gew 88 in .338x57. It should feed well (not sure about length) and I don't think the pressure would be excessive with moderate loads. I think the .338x57 may be the best choice for this action for hunting in thick woods (won't be deflected as easily as a smaller bullet). What do you think?

I have an extra Gew receiver sitting around that I may actually try heat treating. I work in a metal shop so I could just sent the receiver off with a shipment to be heat treated very inexpensively to a Rockwell that I specify. I'm thinking something like 8mm rem mag might even be a possibility.



#4 z1r

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 08:41 PM

Kyle, Send me your name & address so I can take out some insurance on you. I need a retirement fund.

If it's a big thumper you want then the 9.3x57 is just the ticket. It was made for the pre-98 actions. A .366" bullet beats a .338". Or, if you like the .35's then the 9x57.

I think that crap about bigger bullets not deflectig as much is hooey! Your supposed to have a clear shot, not shoot through brush. A brush gun is for navigating through brushy conditions not shooting brush!

Out of curiousity, what Rockwell would you specify? What method wuld you ask them to use?

#5 fritz

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 09:01 PM

"I think that crap about bigger bullets not deflectig as much is hooey! Your supposed to have a clear shot, not shoot through brush. A brush gun is for navigating through brushy conditions not shooting brush!"

I agree. When I miss, I don't blame the brush for getting in the way. I blame the deer for getting behind the brush.

Now, if I had a . 50 caliber BMG I might think about taking a shot!

fritz


#6 Kyle

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 09:31 PM

QUOTE(z1r @ Sep 25 2006, 09:41 PM) View Post

Kyle, Send me your name & address so I can take out some insurance on you. I need a retirement fund.

If it's a big thumper you want then the 9.3x57 is just the ticket. It was made for the pre-98 actions. A .366" bullet beats a .338". Or, if you like the .35's then the 9x57.

I think that crap about bigger bullets not deflectig as much is hooey! Your supposed to have a clear shot, not shoot through brush. A brush gun is for navigating through brushy conditions not shooting brush!

Out of curiousity, what Rockwell would you specify? What method wuld you ask them to use?


I really like the idea of the 9.3x57. It should feed well based on case size but what about the length?
Any idea where I could get a 9.3x57 barrel (not too spendy!)?

Not really sure which Rockwell and method I'd specify. I planned on doing more research if I did plan to do it.

I don't know about shooting threw the brush but personally I just think it would be a cool rifle to own.

#7 AzRednek

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 04:44 AM

QUOTE(Kyle @ Sep 26 2006, 12:10 AM) View Post

I'm planning on building at least one Gew 88 sporter rifle I got from Centerfire and I was just wondering if anyone has done a Gew 88 sporter before.

I'll probably keep one in the original 8x57 but I don't see why you couldn't do something like 30-06.


Kyle you're fooling with a weapon contrived in black powder era and obselete by WW 1. It would be safer to poke a crack whore bear skinned that to put an 06 in a 88.

#8 bilurey

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 08:08 AM

The M1888 Gew commission rifle is a Manlicher design and was never produced by Mauser. The original cartridge was limited to about 35,000lbs. These rifles should never be used for any other commercialy available cartridge. There were numerous blow ups with these rifles, serious injuries and deaths were recorded. This was primairly due to the deterent coating not adhering to the powder flakes, thus the burning rate amounted to a detonation as opposed to a controlled burn.

Many beautiful rifles were made on this design. Haenel, the primary private contractor, developed a line of improved models ranging from nicely made to gorgeous - but never chambered in the higher intensity modern loads. There fine old rifles are almost exclusively a collectors item and not shooters. No reliable gunsmith would ever rebarrel to any of the modern calibers (1891 or later), especially the Turk or Chinese exports, far too much chance of expiediency exceeding safety in the hands of arsenal managment. Bill

#9 Kyle

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Posted 27 September 2006 - 09:06 AM

QUOTE(bilurey @ Sep 26 2006, 09:08 AM) View Post

The M1888 Gew commission rifle is a Manlicher design and was never produced by Mauser. The original cartridge was limited to about 35,000lbs. These rifles should never be used for any other commercialy available cartridge. There were numerous blow ups with these rifles, serious injuries and deaths were recorded. This was primairly due to the deterent coating not adhering to the powder flakes, thus the burning rate amounted to a detonation as opposed to a controlled burn.


Could you please explain that to me? Was it the original ammo that made it dangerous or the design of the rifle?

I think I'll build it in 9.3x57. It should be fine with moderate loads. Any idea on where I could get a 9.3 barrel?

#10 z1r

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Posted 27 September 2006 - 09:21 AM

Lothar walther, Douglas and Shilen make barrels and I'm sure most other reknowned makers do too. Getting a reamer is the hard part. A good option would be to have your barrel rebored. That way the use the existing chamber and just recut the neck & throat.

Norma factory loads only generate 35,000 psi. While their handload data goes up to 46,000. Stick with the factory loads.

But, as Bilurey said, getting someone to do the work could be problematic at best. Honestly, you can find a very nice Husky M46 already chambered in 9.3x57 for less than you'll spend on a conversion. That said, it sounds like you are adamant about using the 88 as a basis for a sporter. If so, the 9.3x57 is likely one of themost sensible cartridges to contemplate due to its sedate operating pressures.



Early smokeless powders needed the kinks worked out. The variable burn rates caused high pressure problems that highlighte dthe design deficiences of actions like the 88. Failures related to case seperations or high pressures are more dangerous in the pre-98's than in the 98's, they are much more so in the pre-91's. I'm including the 88 in there even though it is not technically a Mauser.

#11 Kyle

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Posted 27 September 2006 - 03:35 PM

QUOTE(z1r @ Sep 27 2006, 10:21 AM) View Post

Lothar walther, Douglas and Shilen make barrels and I'm sure most other reknowned makers do too. Getting a reamer is the hard part. A good option would be to have your barrel rebored. That way the use the existing chamber and just recut the neck & throat.

Norma factory loads only generate 35,000 psi. While their handload data goes up to 46,000. Stick with the factory loads.

But, as Bilurey said, getting someone to do the work could be problematic at best. Honestly, you can find a very nice Husky M46 already chambered in 9.3x57 for less than you'll spend on a conversion. That said, it sounds like you are adamant about using the 88 as a basis for a sporter. If so, the 9.3x57 is likely one of themost sensible cartridges to contemplate due to its sedate operating pressures.
Early smokeless powders needed the kinks worked out. The variable burn rates caused high pressure problems that highlighte dthe design deficiences of actions like the 88. Failures related to case seperations or high pressures are more dangerous in the pre-98's than in the 98's, they are much more so in the pre-91's. I'm including the 88 in there even though it is not technically a Mauser.


How can I get the barrel rebored for 9.3 bullets? I'm a CNC machine operator at a metal shop specializing in precision machining so I'm thinking it may be possible to do it at work???

I'm not using an 88 just because I really want an 88 sporter. I'm doing it because I want to build a very cheap but unusual hunting gun. If I get to the point where I'm spending more on building a sporter from an inferior design then I would just buying a new savage or building from a 98 mauser I'll have failed my goal.

I'll try to use the original barrel if possible (since a new barrel would be several times the cost of the entire rifle) and do most or all of the work myself. I have acess to all kinds of equipment so unless I need something firearm specific I should have everything I'll need.

#12 z1r

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Posted 27 September 2006 - 03:56 PM

If cost is the motivation then the very best thing you can do for yourself from both a cost standpoint and a safety standpoint is leave it as-is with the issue barrel and shoot remington factory ammo. It is loaded to very low pressures and in my Husky 96 it is very accurate. A rebore job will be about $200. A LW barrel easily that.

#13 Kyle

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Posted 27 September 2006 - 03:59 PM

I've thought about keeping it in 8x57 but it seems 9.3x57 would be nearly perfect for what I want.

Do you think it would be possible for me to convert it to 9.3 myself using CNC machines?

#14 gun nutty

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Posted 27 September 2006 - 05:20 PM

Would a 35 Rem function through the 88?

#15 724wd

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Posted 27 September 2006 - 05:22 PM

i don't see how, unless you have rifling cutting bits that will reach the entire length of the barrel. do yourself a favor and buy a Turk mauser (k.Kale if you can) for about a hundred bucks and shoot it. If you need to rebarrel it, you can find issue barrels and Rem takeoffs for well under a hundred bucks. don't bother messing around with the 88 if your goal is a cheap hunting gun. many more doors open up with a turk. let's say 2 years down the road you want a new stock... with the turk, it's just a matter of what material and profile you like. not so with the 88. same with triggers, scope mounts, safeties....

if you are doing this to create a beautiful piece of art, then by all means use the action that is most appealing to your sensibilities. just remember the limitations of each action. you may not have the rifle forever, so some forethought as to if your kids might shoot the gun someday might skew your build details.

and now, have fun! build what YOU want and shoot with a smile!

#16 Doble Troble

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Posted 27 September 2006 - 07:36 PM

QUOTE
I'll have failed my goal.


It's great that you have a goal in mind - this is the most important part of sporterizing, and why most of us are hopelessly addicted. We get these ideas, don't let anything stop us, and spend an amazing amount of time and effort trying very hard to produce what we've imagined. Sometimes you get close enough that it's really satisfying which only makes the addiction stronger!

QUOTE
Do you think it would be possible for me to convert it to 9.3 myself using CNC machines?


I bet you could rig something up to produce a nice smooth bore. I can't imagine that it would be easy, but Americans were making accurate rifles before 1800 - I bet you could do it too!

The difficult part would be figuring-out how to rifle it. You'd have to build a dedicated machine to do this. I try to be as independent a "do it yourselfer" as I can on principle - if I'm not learning how to do something new its not worth the time investment. I've casually thought about what would have to be done to create an accurately rifled bore, and I've concluded that I'm not going to go there. This doesn't mean that I think you shouldn't - maybe you should! I seem to recall an ad in Shotgun News for a VCR tape demonstrating how to build a rifling machine. I'll try to track down a link.

If it was me I'd buy a nice Lothar Walther contoured barrel and consider myself WAY ahead of the game. A 9.3 x 57 would be a VERY cool large mammal thumper.

#17 Kyle

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Posted 28 September 2006 - 06:12 PM

QUOTE(Doble Troble @ Sep 27 2006, 08:36 PM) View Post

It's great that you have a goal in mind - this is the most important part of sporterizing, and why most of us are hopelessly addicted. We get these ideas, don't let anything stop us, and spend an amazing amount of time and effort trying very hard to produce what we've imagined. Sometimes you get close enough that it's really satisfying which only makes the addiction stronger!
I bet you could rig something up to produce a nice smooth bore. I can't imagine that it would be easy, but Americans were making accurate rifles before 1800 - I bet you could do it too!

The difficult part would be figuring-out how to rifle it. You'd have to build a dedicated machine to do this. I try to be as independent a "do it yourselfer" as I can on principle - if I'm not learning how to do something new its not worth the time investment. I've casually thought about what would have to be done to create an accurately rifled bore, and I've concluded that I'm not going to go there. This doesn't mean that I think you shouldn't - maybe you should! I seem to recall an ad in Shotgun News for a VCR tape demonstrating how to build a rifling machine. I'll try to track down a link.

If it was me I'd buy a nice Lothar Walther contoured barrel and consider myself WAY ahead of the game. A 9.3 x 57 would be a VERY cool large mammal thumper.


I'd love to be able to do it myself! If you anyone has any suggestions on how I could modify the existing 8x57 barrel to 9.3 I'd love to hear them!

If I get a new barrel that also opens up another problem. I'll have to thread any new barrel (unless custom made for the Gew88) so that it will fit into the Gew action and since I've never done that before I'm worried I'd mess it up and ruin a new barrel. If I messed up the original Gew barrel I can just pay $20 and get another entire rifle.

Any links to barrels I could consider for this project?

I agree that a 9.3x57 Gew 88 would be a very cool and unique sporter but on the other hand I'm still wondering if it is really worth putting a $200+ barrel on a $30 gun. If I could find a way to do it cheaply then I'm good to go but if I can't do the conversion to 9.3 myself or find a way to do it cheaply I may just have to stick with 8x57 (which isn't a bad caliber by any means, just not exactly what I want).

Also with a new barrel I may have a little trouble with the barrel jacket issue. The front action screw actually goes into a hole in the very back of the barrel jacket and if I get a new barrel it might not be the right size to fit the end peice of the barrel jacket over. If I use the original barrel I can just cut off the first inch of the barrel jacket, screw it on and solder it or something to provide a solid base. Without it the front of the action and back of the barrel aren't supported and there is only one screw holding the entire thing to the stock!




#18 Racepres

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Posted 28 September 2006 - 09:13 PM

"I may just have to stick with 8x57"

Now yer makin sense!!! My 8X57's are about all I really want ballistically and recoil wise, as well as being Economical!! $0.02 Good luck, and whatever you do... stick it out...

#19 tinkerfive

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Posted 28 September 2006 - 09:29 PM

Kyle

Since you are a machinest perhaps you can figure this out.

Perhaps a year ago now a few of us were discussing " re- rifeling "
ideas.

I was part of that discussion. I was thinking of how to turn an 8MM
into a 35 Wheelen. Otheres were thinking in terms of .338 etc.
I'd think this would go well with you desire to go from 8 to 9.3MM.

The jist of the discussion was using the existing rifeling as a guide
provided the existing twist rate worked for the final product.
The idea was to devise some sort of 'button' / cutter that could
deepen the grooves to the desired bore diameter.
Then with a drill of the proper diameter for the finished lands,
all it need have is a pilot the diameter of the 8mm lands.

If you want to search the archives, I'm fairly certian we may have
indeed used the topic 're-rifeling'.

Best of luck.
If you can figure out how to do this, there are hundreds of tousands of
potential re-rifel jobs out there.

Tinker

#20 bubbamauser

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Posted 28 September 2006 - 10:21 PM

I've done some projects that people with more experience questioned, , and I appreciate the questioning it got me to look for answers to questions I could'nt come up with myself, so i'm not trying to change your mind. but for these why not use a turk kkale 8mm barrel, it needs to be modified a little to fit but will correct the diameter issues and make a good, unique, cheap, brush gun. Now if we can find some bolt faces we'll be on a roll.


Roy




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