diggerdanh

Agreed. I really enjoyed that article. Amazing the results those guys came up with considering the primitive (by today's standards) tooling that they had available.

Clemson, funny - I was just thinking the same thing myself this afternoon. That will be the next thing I check. Odies Dad, great news. Thanks for the confirmation. And don't worry I won't take that as legal advice

8uck5nort may be on to something. This is the text from the Forster site, emphasis mine: Anyone ever heard of this or run into this before? I've never heard of this before, but then I never stick to 8x57 either . That sounds like what I'm seeing. My go gage is hitting the bore and not the shoulder - I can see a little "dirt" ring when I pull it out that shows where it hits the bore just above the shoulder (actually well above the shoulder - about 1/4" from the top of the gage). I guess I'll have to order a set of the older gages and see what that does for me.

8uck5nort, I hadn't heard that before about different shoulder angles. And you're right, I have no idea of the date or origin of the receiver or barrel. I spent a few hours looking up the stamps on the bottom of the receiver but that really didn't get me anywhere. ken98k - That is what I was thinking, too. On a hunch I dropped in a .308 go gage, but the chamber completely swallows it. I can't imagine it being anything other than 8x57 since it was stock military configuration and bought directly from AIM when they still had a bunch of Turk Mausers. But, better safe than sorry, I'll order some cerrosafe and get a chamber cast. I checked my 8x57 GO gage vs. the NO GO gage and it looks to be correct. I tightened up the barrel again and checked the alignment of the rear sight hole and it looks like it is still top dead center. I can look right down the line through my newly tapped holes in the top of the receiver and the rear sight hole falls right in line. Of course it could be off a degree or two, but it looks good by eyeballing it. I checked the chamber with a light and saw nothing out of the ordinary and even scrubbed it with a chamber brush for several minutes just for kicks. Still nothing. I'm really perplexed and can kick myself for not measuring the headspace before I tore it apart. But I'm really glad I never took this thing straight to the range after buying it to fire it without checking. I'll never fire a surplus rifle again without checking headspace first. I'm going to do a chamber cast and then if it is 8x57 and just short chambered then I'll just set it aside until the next time I rent a reamer. Thanks again gents.

Sorry for any confusion. The gage appears to go all the way in - I should be able to measure it roughly to let you know how much of the gage is sticking out. It was the bolt handle that only went down 2/3rds of the way. I didn't face the receiver - the only thing I did was take a soft toothbrush to it to clean out the gunk to both it and the barrel face. I don't think there was a spacer, but you can see from my previous post that I'm second guessing that there might have been some junk there. I didn't see a spacer or anything when I pulled it, but I guess something could have fallen off and went under my bench and I didn't see it. Truthfully, the first thing that I thought was that the Go guage must be marked wrong. Actually, that is something I can test tomorrow, too. See how much of the Go guage protrudes compared to the NoGo guage to make sure that it is indeed shorter. Well, I'll get at it again fresh tomorrow and let you know what I find. Thanks for the tips.

tinkerfive, Thanks for the reply. Yes, I did remove the rear sight. I looked for "witness marks" yesterday but I didn't see any. Lesson Learned #2 - put a witness mark in place, if nothing else but for my own sanity. I doubt that I have it on any tighter than it was originally because it was really torqued on there good - real good. And when I put it on I just screwed it to tight and then a "grunt" for a little more. But the hole for the rear sight base should still be in place - I just used some epoxy to fill it since I knew I would be using a spray on coating. I pulled the barrel back off to clean and check the chamber so I can't provide a definitive answer now, but that's one thing I will check tomorrow. I'll see where that lines up. Now that I think about it - I noticed that there was a lot of junk in the threads and the mating surface between the barrel and receiver when I originally pulled the barrel. I just contributed it to age and "funk". But I wonder if the Turk armorers left shavings or something in there that stopped the barrel from being completely screwed on. Especially considering how they mill the front of the receiver to create the lip - that could create a lot of junk like that. And another thing I just remembered - there is one spot on the barrel face that is marred a little bit. I remember thinking that it looked like it might have been created by a shaving or something between the barrel and the receiver face. I never imagined that it would add any "artificial" headspace, but I guess if it was big enough it could. Interesting. So it could be that I have it screwed on farther than it was originally, though it is definitely torqued a lot less than it was. Well, I'll inspect and clean the chamber a bit more tomorrow. Hopefully I'll just find some shavings or something there and get it cleaned out. But either way I'll look for the rear sight hole and see how that lines up now and I'll update. Thanks again.

Got one for you gents. My latest build is a pretty simple project - a Turk 1954 ATF rifle (german-built originally) - got it from AIM several years ago with a few other Turks back when they were $39.99. D&T'd, Redfield one-peice base and rings, Bueler-type safety, Timney trigger, forged bolt, decent slim Walnut stock. The barrel looks great inside and out so I decided to keep the original chambering and just cut down the barrel to 24 inches. My inspiration is 50's/60's style sporter. I thought I had hit the home stretch and hoped to finish the build this weekend (everything except the stock finishing). I had a little bit of bedding work to finish up around the trigger guard to fix my overzealous dremelling during inletting and I wanted to apply duracoat to the receiver and barrel this weekend. I tightened the barrel onto the receiver before getting ready to prep for Duracoat. I thought I'd go ahead and measure the headspace and that it would be nothing more than simply checking another box off of my to-do list. I put the go guage in but the bolt would only drop about 2/3rds of the way. I had the extractor on the bold so after saying "Your're a dummy" to myself I removed it and tried again. Same result. I'm not using the original bolt, which was non-matching anyway, so I fished the original bolt out of my box of parts and tried that to with the same result. I later checked another bolt and same results. First thing that came to mind was advice I'd read on this forum several times - "Thoroughly clean the chamber, you might have some shavings or something in there interfering." I cleaned it a bit this afternoon with a soft wire brush and some bore cleaner. When I tested I still found the same thing - bold wouldn't rotate down all the way. I did not check the headspace on the rifle in its original configuration because I didn't have 8mm gauges until a week or so ago so I don't know if that is how it was when I got it. Lesson Learned #1. But I didn't make any changes to the barrel face or receiver in those areas - other than cleaning threads with a toothbrush. I haven't taken another look inside the chamber to make sure there still isn't something in there, that is my next step. But I thought I'd throw this out there while it was still on my mind. Has anyone ever come across a "stock" military Turk Mauser, or any other for that matter, with what appears to be a short chambered barrel? I'm contemplating either finishing the build and performing the finish reaming later or pulling the stock barrel from a VZ24 (that is destined for a Parker Hale .308 heavy barrel) and using that one instead if it looks good.

Keep us posted. Can't wait to see the results!

There's always a place for "semi-custom" (reminds me of the semi-homemade show on the Food Network). A lot of us have the same Timney Buehler-style safeties, the same Timney/Bold triggers, the same Boyds/Richards/Hogue, etc. stocks on our "custom" rifles. We have the same Leupold/Redfield/Burris one piece scope mounts. Even a lot of our bolt handles come from the same source(s). I don't know when I'll be able to afford a true custom checkering job and probably will not have one until I learn to do it myself (maybe when I retire in 20 years). Until then I would probably be interested in a semi-custom laser engraving checkering job to add a little something to otherwise plain-jane stocks.

Okay, I tore it down this evening. I can tell you that this is the first time this thing has been taken apart in a long, long time. In that sense it's so different from any of the Turk mausers or others that I've gotten that originated from Century. Those things are jammed full of cosmoline everywhere. This is just full of dust and old mud and some kind of mold in one place in the stock. This thing hasn't been opened up in a long time. Anyway. Here is what I found... Long story short - there are a lot of things that suggest this is a Chinese made rifle. There is nothing that really tells me it is a Czech made rifle. But there are some weird things about it (probably just because of mine - and nearly everyone else's - lack of familiarity with Chinese mausers). [Much of the below taken from Terence W. Lapin's Mauser Military Rifle Markings, 2nd Edition] 1. Crest, though tough to see in the image, on the top is the typical "Chinese Army Ordnance Dept." symbol as defined by Lapin in the Emblems chapter. This emblem is very faint and you can just barely see it. The bottom part of the crest is the "China Standard Model (Arsenal #21)" emblem from Lapin's Inscriptions in Non-Western Languages chapter. It's the one with the swastika in it rather than the star or diamonds. 2. As mentioned previously the serial number is interesting. I don't know much about Chinese Mausers but I would assume that they wouldn't use western style numbers. But that is what this rifle has. This is one of the reasons I thought it might be a Czech made rifle originally. It is all numbers matching. 3. A shot of the rifle from the bolt handle side. You can see the grasping groove and how the top handguard starts after the rear sight. According the Ball the Chinese import mausers were not configured like this, only the Chinese made short rifles were. 4. Triggerguard - note the capture screws 5. The rear sight looks like the standard Euro type rear sight to me with European style numbers. Again I would have expected a Chinese made rifle to use Chinese numerals. 6. Underside of the barrel. After some scrubbing I found two marks. What appears to be a "7", circled in white, and a small swastica, circled in red. I got excited after finding the swastica, but afterward found that Lapin says the left facing swastica, which is what this is, is the factory logo for the Chinese Aresenal #21 at Hanyang. 7. I was surprised to not really find a lot of acceptance marks and stamps on the underside of the receiver, like I've seen on most european and turk mausers. The only marking that I can really see is what appears to be an "11", circled in red. I couldn't find anything in the Lapin book referencing that, but that's not surprising since he doesn't go into a lot of detail with Chinese mausers. 8. The final thing I found was kind of intriguing. There were no proof markings or acceptance stamps on the bottom of the recoil lug, but there were two marking on the front of it. The marking circled in red looks like an "O" or a "0". The marking circled in blue (I know you can't see it that good in the picture) looks like it is a "Z", and is very similar to markings that I've seen on the bottom of German/Czech mausers. So there are a few things that are interesting - the serial numbers and the Z marking on the recoil lug. But I cannot say that Chinese made mausers have or don't have those without looking at other specimens. So, as I said before, there's really no evidence that this is a Czech made mauser. But there is lots of evidence that it is a standard Chinese short rifle made by Arsenal 21 - the crest, the arsenal stamp on the barrel, etc. I think what I have is a Chinese made rifle. Given that, the fit and finish of the rifle is pretty good. I haven't compared it side by side with German or Czech rifle so I can't comment on tolerances, but it looks pretty good. Not German quality good, but as good as most K.Kale Turks that I've seen. I'm not really a collector so I don't plan on keeping it. I now have two options: I can ask the seller to let me return it and get a refund or I can try to resell it as Chinese Mauser. I would consider it in fair condition overall. Everything has a patina, a slight bit of pitting under the woodline, but nice condition overall. The stock brings it down to fair, it is banged up quite a bit - looks like the typical 70+ year old mauser stock. But it is all numbers matching, the stock even has the serial number stamped into the barrel channel. And I can now provide background of where it was manufactured, approximately when, etc. I got it very cheap so even though Chinese mausers don't go for much on Gunbroker or Auction Arms I can probably at least break even by selling it as what it is. But I'm still ticked off that what I recieved is not what I expected or what it was described as being. Luckily this is the first time I've gotten a bad deal from one of the auction sites. Thoughts?

I have a mauser that I purchased that was advertised as being a Czech BRNO made 98/22 export to China. Because it was "Chinese" most people stayed away from it. I looked at it as an opportunity to buy a nice 98/22 project action at a Chinese price. The stock is banged up quite a bit, but the metal looks pretty good. (References to Ball's Mauser Military Rifles of the World, Second Edition) However, the crest is not the normal Czech export (BRNO) stamp that I've seen on other 98/22 exports or that Ball shows in his book in the China section for the 98/22. The crest is actually more like the "Chaing Kai-Shek" Model Short Rifle image that Ball shows (with the Chinese ideograph mauser-like banner below and the circle around bow/arrow above). The bottom part of the crest is pretty visible but the top part is very faint. It's also not in 98/22 configuration. It's much shorter and the top handguard doesn't butt up to the front ring - it starts after the front sight - like the "Chaing Kai-Shek" model short rifle. I haven't taken it apart yet so I don't have more details, but I did notice that the left side of the front ring, the barrel, bottom metal, and a few other of the normal parts were stamped with a serial number like E6219 (not the real serial number), which seemed odd to me if it was a Chinese made rifle. I would assume the S/N would be in Chinese if it were Chinese made. Ball doesn't show a side view of the Chinese made Mauser with a serial number. The stamping of the serial number actually looks similar to side view image of the serial number for the 98/22 in the Ball book. I know that a lot of countries restamp the receiver rings when they re-arsenal, so I'm not ruling out that could be the case with this rifle. In fact I'm hoping that is the case because I wanted a Czech made 98/22 to use for building a project rifle, not a Chinese made Mauser collecting dust in my safe. I'm wondering what made the seller think this was a 98/22 rather than a Chinese made version. I need some "proof" one way or another I guess so I can be happy with my 98/22 or go back to the seller and tell him he misrepresented something he sold me. What signs (proofs, other marking) should I look for to check if it was originally a Czech 98/22 (or other European country / model) rather than a Chinese made rifle?

Same here.

Great list. Some of those are new ones to me and I've been gathering parts for years. Also, thanks for the tip on sending C&R to Sporter Express, I didn't realize that. Don't forget Gunbroker.com and AuctionArms.com. Both sites get hammered a lot on forums, but if you know what you're looking for and are patient you can get some good deals. If I'm unsure about something then I let it pass. If it looks like the thing might be pitted and rusted underneath the woodline then I let it pass, especially if the seller doesn't allow returns. You really have to watch out for what people charge for shipping. If they don't say in the listing then contact them first and ask before bidding. It sucks to think you got a nice donor rifle for $20 less than what any dealer has them only to find out the seller wants to charge you $35 for shipping+handling.

Gents, I'm getting down to the nitty gritty on my first large ring project. I've done a couple "practice" projects on small rings in the past (a Turk '93 and a Brazilian 94 with Swede barrel). I've been stockpiling large rings since I renewed my C&R and have gotten busy at my workbench again. I've got a bunch more projects planned out after I finish up this one. Anyway, this current project is a based on a Turk rework with the "counter bored" front ring. Because it's my first large ring project and because I've read about the concerns of the loss of threads I thought I'd keep this one fairly simple, just stick with the 8mm military barrel and do a "classic sporter", put it in a decent walnut stock, 1-pc Redfield mount, Timney trigger, Buehler safety, etc. I got the barrel pulled off last night and I got to see up close what the Turks had done to that nice German 98. I thought that I'd read that in most cases 5 threads are usually left? Well, in my case it's only a solid 4 threads, not even a hint of a 5th. Should I be any more concerned than I was already? I can tell you that there were not any issues with holding power, that thing was on there tight! My thoughts are that this is a really nice receiver (especially since I've already stoned, lightly polished, and D&T'd it) and I'd hate to have to use it as a paperweight. I figure that it's probably fired plenty of 8mm through it in the past with that same barrel so it should be okay. But then again there are plenty of Spanish and South American 93/95 actions that have probably fired a lot of 7.62N through them and I'd just as soon not shoot any of them. I think I'll continue on as planned, but thought I'd throw the question up here anyway for feedback. Thoughts? Is the just 4 threads left intact that I found unusual? What have you guys seen? Thanks, Dan

They all look great. I looked back at some of his older auctions. Very cool that each knife/tomahawk is so much different.

Mike, I like the last pic in the first post, this one: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/78z...es/P1010091.jpg what would you call that style? (for future reference when I send one to you to have done like that )

Gents, What Spanish model would have a hinged trigger guard like that? I've stayed away from the Spanish rifles but I wouldn't mind one of those trigger guards mated to one of my '95 Chilean actions. Thanks, Dan

Absolutely beautiful!

I hadn't wondered about it yet. I, of course, had heard of the Twedes before and I think it is an appropriate name, but I have no idea what to call a Brazilian, Swedish, Turk combo - ... Anything I try to come up with just sounds silly. BTW, thanks for all the comments, gents. I am pretty proud - it is a fairly good looking rifle, but I have to say that the pictures make it look much better than it really is. Like some women - it looks much better from across the room than it does up close!

http://danhounshell.com/photos/diggerdanh/...38/500x375.aspx http://danhounshell.com/photos/diggerdanh/...27/500x375.aspx http://danhounshell.com/photos/diggerdanh/...29/500x375.aspx http://danhounshell.com/photos/diggerdanh/...30/500x375.aspx http://danhounshell.com/photos/diggerdanh/...31/500x375.aspx http://danhounshell.com/photos/diggerdanh/...33/500x375.aspx http://danhounshell.com/photos/diggerdanh/...34/500x375.aspx Click here to see all pics. It is a Model 94 Brazilian Mauser - which I got as receiver only (from Sarco maybe?). Barrel is a surplus Swedish mauser barrel in 6.5x55 cut and crowned at 24" - I think I picked this up from Sarco about a year ago on sale. Bolt shroud, ejector, extractor, and triggerguard are all from a model 93 Turk Mauser. Bolt is some type of 93/95 that I picked up from one of the auction sites already forged and polished. I drilled and tapped for 1-piece base. Currently using a B-Square weaver type base with a Glenfield 4x32 fixed power scope with low weaver type rings. Clip guide on receiver was filed and stoned as was the rest of the receiver. There is still a little bit of pitting that you can see just above the woodline in one of the pics - but it's not too bad. Safety is a Timney buehler type. Trigger is stock - will switch to a Timney Sportsman as soon as it gets here in the mail. Stock is something I picked up from Ebay I think at least a year ago - the inletting was pretty close to mine - I got lucky. Everything but the bolt is cold blued (did a pretty good job, but it is really light - almost grey). It took about 10 days to do (at about an hour or so an evening and a couple of hours each day on the weekends), but I had all of the parts on hand before I started. I'm pretty pleased with the results for my first project. I probably only have about $160 in it including the scope, but minus the parts borrowed from other guns. Though I did probably spend at least another $250 on tools, which will definitely be re-used! I also accomplished a couple of the goals I set out to: make some mistakes and learn from them and identify the areas where I need more practice or a better process. One of those areas is in metal prep - in a couple of pictures you can see where I still have some file marks (especially on the rear bridge). I'm going to have to invest in a sand blaster and air compressor if I want to do as nice a job as I'd like to do. Additionally, I think on the next project I will attempt a rust blue - either that or I will attempt parkerizing and/or duracoat or another spray-on finish. I still have a little bit of work to do - mostly bedding. There is a little bit of a gap around the magazine well and the wood on the bottom and I need to bed the front ring and first couple inches of barrel. Best of all it was fun, took my mind off work, and gave me some pride in a job well done. I can't wait to shoot it!! I, too, have to thank all of you gents (and ladies!) for your input to MFRC - without it I would have never even thought to take on such a project, let alone have the nerve to do so. Thank you all very much. Now on to the next tune-up project - a 95 Chilean in its stock 7mm mounted in a synthetic stock - plus all the other goodies.

Tony, me too: diggerdanh at yahoo.com Thanks, Dan

So that was the plan. However, I've determined that I may be too much of a perfectionist to "practice on a couple of actions." First of all I have to say that I drilled and tapped my first mauser receiver for a scope mount about a week ago - it worked flawlessly! Thanks to all of you for the inspiration and examples - I would never have had the nerve nor the knowledge to do so without your help. So my first "practice" project was to be a '94 brazilian action that I picked up somewhere with a 6.5x55 swede barrel that I got from Sarco a while back. I took the bolt from a '93 turk that I had been playing with a while back - was already bent and polished and had a buehler style safety installed. I got the bottom metal, trigger, ejector and other needed hardware from another '93 mauser that I had laying around. The stock is some type of slight profile laminated stock for a SR that I picked up somewhere (probably on ebay) a couple of years ago. I figured the end result should be a nice lightweight sporter. I'll post some pics once I have something worth showing. So here is my issue: I figured I would be happy enough to just "go through the actions" with this project and be happy to get everything good enough and consider it a learning experience. Instead I find myself finding a small flaw, fixing it, looking deeper, finding some other small flawy, fixing it, on and on... For example I have spent the last two evenings continuing to work on grinding down and smoothing out the area where the clip guide used to be. I probably had it "good enough" two nights ago, but I continue to work on it. I'm sure this persistence will be worthwhile once I have an action worth the attention, unfortunately the one I have now has some pitting below the woodline. I guess I am just plain and simply "hooked". Thanks again gents.

Curioandrelic, Welcome - Sounds like we may be a stones throw or two aways from each other. I live in Monroe and work in Loveland. It really is nice being close to AIM and SOG. I agree with Z1R's recommendation about the scout mount - it is definitely the easiest way to go for the first time. In fact that is exactly what I did - bought and installed a Darrell's scout mount, a used ATI stock that I picked up on ebay, and an inexpensive LER 2x scope. Added a decent sling and a cheap bipod and had a slick little rifle for about $100 + the initial cost of the MN. It's no Steyr Scout, but it's in the same neighborhood and for a whole lot less money. (the bipod has since been moved to the front sling swivel - I was just trying it out on the barrel in this pic) This kind of project really is a good introduction into sporterizing military surplus because it doesn't take a whole lot of skill, time or previous knowledge. However, I have to warn you (or your father-in-law) that by the time you wrap this one up - you'll be hooked. Another recommendation is to start slow. Go with the scount mount and LER (or IER) scope first. Decide if you want to go with a synthetic ATI stock or a wood stock and then do that. Buy a bunch of surplus ammo and shoot it up. Maybe go with a Huber Concepts trigger later on. Perhaps cut down and recrown the barrel. Give it an Acraglass bedding job. Maybe get a sniper style bent bolt from Jim the Boltman. The sky is not the limit with the MN's, but there are a lot of things you can do with it and most of rifles (especially Russian 91/30s and various Finnish models) are pretty accurate. The M44's are not so accurate, but they do create a hell of a fireball.

Tinkerfive, Thanks for the offer. I'll have to take you up on that if it looks like something I can do. I'd love to see pics - that will help a bunch, I'm sure. Thanks for the information - much appreciated. I have a couple of 93 mauser receivers sitting around that I plan on using for practice: hitting them with a wire wheel, filing/griding down charger hump and any other imperfections, drilling & tapping for scope mount, polishing the receiver, and probably some rust blueing practice. Getting a grinder/buffer setup is about the only thing I have left to acquire before I can start on that stuff (oh and an India stone). Once I do a couple of those I think I'll be ready to take on one of the "real" projects I've got sitting around - a 7x57 95 Chilean in a Ramline synthetic, a 6.5x55 on a 38 Turk in a drop-in wood stock I picked up somewhere, and a .308 PH barrel on a 98 (don't remember the country of origin right now) in an ATI stock for more of a tactical look - ala FMSniper. Those are just the things I've been stocking up on over the past couple of years. I'm sure the C&R will bring plenty of new projects!! Thanks again, Dan

Gents, I've been reading for a couple of years and I've done a few Timney trigger installations, buehler safeties, restocking to synthetic stocks, some scout style mounts, and cold blueing jobs. I have decided that I am comfortable enough with the smaller jobs and I want to go ahead and step up the activity a bit. The C&R is on the way!! I'm not a machinist or welder, nor have I had any exposure to those things (being a computer programmer) so I don't plan on buying a lathe, mill, or a welder (though I plan on buying a welding outfit in a couple of years if I can do reasonably well with this stuff - hell maybe I'll even buy a lathe at some point, but not until I get much closer to retirement). I have been collecting tools for the past couple of months: benchtop drill press, receiver drill & tap fixture, barrel vice & shims, receiver wrench, various hand tools to fill holes in my collections, etc. I have a short list of things that I still need to pick up - one of them being a bench grinder and a buffer. I have read you guys talk about using wire wheel brushes for removing finishes and buffers for polishing, etc. Will one piece of equipment fit for both of these needs? Can I just buy a bench grinder and have it double as a buffer as well? Will a cheap bench grinder do? Like one of the $29.99 bench grinders from Midway or Harbor Freight? Or do I need to buy a separate buffer - I've seen those at Harbor Freight for about $45-$50? Or do I buy a grinder and just use a buffer with a hand drill or on my drill press? Or alternately buy a buffer and just use a wire wheel on a hand drill or my drill press? What kind of setups are you guys using? What do you recommend? Of course I have a limited budget, too - which is why one tool for both would be great. Any recommendations and links will be appreciated. Thanks, Dan