J.B

What makes one war "more historical" than another?

 

I mean the War for Independence was a pretty historical war, as was the Boer War, and the Winter War. Some would even argue that the American Civil war has more historical importance than WWII.

 

But is the history of any given event somehow locked into the objects of destruction built for that war? Or are they locked in the photographs, letters, campaign documents, and graveyards? To me history is stories, personal connections, and rifles don't seem to convey either of these.

 

Jimro

I didnt say that the other wars werent historical, and would you hack a brown bess from the revolutionary war, it doesnt tell you a story?, a rifle want put on to the battlefield a sporter, and sporting it is just plain ruining all the history that the rifle has. There is nothing nicer than a good arisaka in original condition, a sported one is junk and it is imitating a hunting rifle when infact its not.

I agree there are tons of rifles without history that can be sported, but unmessed with arisakas, un messed with mausers, and certain mosins should all be left alone.

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"It would be crazy to sport an all matching K98k like my grandpas, because you would loose so much money in it(an all matched K98k would go for double what the nicest sporter around would go for). I am still a collecting purist to some rifles, including any unaltered or unrefurbished WWII or WWI rifle. But any K31, turk, refurb mosin, or yugo mausers I wouldnt raise any fuss over, infact I am currently looking around for a M48 for me and my dad to sport so we can have something to do."

 

I'm with FC (and many others) on this. I don't see anything wrong with turning a filthy implement of war, into a useful, maybe even beautilful sporting arm.

Millions of these were assembled by slave labor for the most murderous regimes in history. Yes I feel good about Hacking them up.

Not quite turning swords into plowshears but it's usually an improvement.

 

Kenny

It is still stupid to take an unaltered piece of history from WWII, and to sport it. Keeping them original isnt glorification of war. You can use a German mauser for hunting in original condition, I have used an arisaka in original condition for hunting. Its not some old rifle made in a small factory and put into a hardware store to be sold to a hunter and sit in a basement or safe for 60+ years, it was in one of the most historical wars ever. How in the world is hacking up a rifle going to bring back some of the people murdered? All WWII rifles have history to them, and hacking them up or refurbing them is just destroying the history.

It would be crazy to sport an all matching K98k like my grandpas, because you would loose so much money in it(an all matched K98k would go for double what the nicest sporter around would go for). I am still a collecting purist to some rifles, including any unaltered or unrefurbished WWII or WWI rifle. But any K31, turk, refurb mosin, or yugo mausers I wouldnt raise any fuss over, infact I am currently looking around for a M48 for me and my dad to sport so we can have something to do.

Arisaka no, Mauser maybe, Mosin yes. The Arisaka and matching Mauser I would consider as trading goods. If the Mauser currently has collector's value I would look to trade or sell before cutting it. I really have no interest in Nagant rifles and I would not put the effort or money into sporting one unless I could turn it for a profit.

What if it was an all original WWII vet bringback mosin(there were a few vets lucky enough to get mosins from russian soldiers, I talked to a vet who brought one back but later sold it, but it had papers which the vet still had).

What the purists dont realize is that it isnt going to hurt any history by sporting a turk, they made millions, and plus, its your second ammendment right to sport a rifle.

True, I forgot about the ottoman empire, but there is a world of difference between an original rifle and a refurb, question for you guys, would you ever sport an original arisaka, matching mauser, or a non refurb mosin?

Turks dont have much war history to them, so hack away(I couldve bought one for 50 bucks and it wouldve made a beautiful sporter). But guns like bringback arisakas, mausers, carcanos, vn bringback mosins, and the US milsurps should be left alone(I was told by a guy who hacked an arisaka "its still a jap gun, I just shortened the stock", collectors dont buy just because its a Jap or German, they buy it because its original, and just because its a WWII military rifle action, doesnt mean its WWII anymore, like the droves of mosins coming into the country, I could sport one, but if I got ahold of a non-refurb mosin, I wouldnt dream of sporting it). Sporting is like an art form, but there are some types of guns that should be left alone.

Yep J.B.,your grandads rifle is a whole different deal,and I'd be the same as you.Anything he had all those years and cherished to help him remember what he'd been through would turn it from a killing tool to a family treasure.Jerry

My uncle talked about rebluing it and replacing the stock, if that happened, it would never be all original even if I managed to get an original stock, I just hope to god I am the one who will inherit it as I am the only one who wouldnt replace the stock.

Why? And would it be ok to alter it to another configuration? Such as reworking a Gew98 into a k98? Or a k98 into a sniper variant?

 

What exactly is the historical value of an untouched specimen? It has already been brought up that collectors will pay more in the future for certain models, but that is a monetary value, such as any commodity.

 

But a doubloon isn't just any other gold coin, it has a value intrinsic to the gold it was cast from, but also the romance of pirates and conquistadors.

 

Is the history of a rifle so romantic in our common imagination that it somehow becomes worth more?

 

Jimro

A G98 made into a K98k is no longer a G98, but is still a german military mauser, as soon as it is sported it is no longer a German military mauser, but some hunting mauser, which they were never meant to be. Sporters are historic in their own right, but not military historic, there is nothing wrong with a vet sporting his rifle when he gets home, if it werent for him the rifle wouldnt even be in the US. If someone were to sport my Grandpas K98k and call it historic, it would be the biggest insult to him ever, it would also be an insult to the man he killed for the rifle.

I used to live at Eielson AFB near Fairbanks, during the winter, I got so cold that Al Gore would be praying for global warming. Where do you hail from in Alaska?

I saw a franken luger at a show one time that someone made, it was made from a bunch of different parts from different countries, but still looked cool.

Cool.

I had entertained the idea of making a frankenrifle from a hodgepodge of parts, but just havent gotten around to doing it.

What action was the rifle originally? Looks like a mauser action.

Nice deer, where in west virginia are you from?

To alter a rifle from WWII from its military condition to a hunting rifle IS not historical. I have a rule with sportering rifles, if it was not in use by a military during a war(like an all matching K98k which would be absolutely stupid to sport anyway as you are losing ALOT of money on it, Arisaka, or other rifles that were used during this period), I wont sport it, but if its already sported or just a plain bubba gun abortion, I will finish the job or if it was a complete refurb(like one of the mosins they are importing nowadays which are basically frankenguns that are refinished and dont hold much history anymore unless you count their 60 year long cosmoline bath). To see them as just tools that have no history is wrong, they all have history to them(unless refurbed like the mosins or already sported) and are all memories of a time that has passed us by. To look at a vet capture gun and say its just a tool and not a piece of history and can be messed with isnt right. I have no control over what anybody does and its their rifles to sport, but it looses its collector value and is screwing with their history, sporting should never be considered apart of the rifles history as sporting is ruining the history, and the rifles are not infinite in number(unlike the mosins that are imported today, I could care less if one of them was sported as I have plenty to choose from), I have seen some sporters that were sported because the seller thought it would increase value, I had to drive 60 miles to get an original arisaka that the owner bubbaed on my way up there, lets just say I wasnt happy about driving 60 miles for nothing.

I already have money ready for an M48(these things have no history) and I plan on sporting it just to have fun.

As to the 1903s, alot of them were made just for deer rifle actions, not for military actions, I never get tired of seeing sportered 1903s as they are all unique. Alot were sported back in the day where you could get one for a few bucks and if you sported it, the rifle would end up earning you money.

The vet bringback K98ks would never be a good candidate for sporterization, if my grandpas K98k was sported by anyone, all hell would break loose, it had been in Germany for only about a year, but has been in the US for the past 60 years. Some rifles are history and shouldnt be messed with, I do plan on getting an M48 and sporting it just for something to do, but I would never use a rifle that was actually used during a war.

I had the chance to buy a hacked stock/barrel type 99 for 10 dollars, but turned it down because it was "bubba", I couldve bought it and made it into a good deer rifle. I was to purist and I learned my lesson(I wont buy sportered japs, but if I can buy a 10 dollar sporter, I will jump on it).

Although I would rather not see Mccain as president, if it is him against a Democrat, every gun owner must vote for mccain. Staying home and not voting because you dont agree 100% with either candidate is stupid and gets you no where when there is so much at stake as there is in this election, I believe McCain will end up being president.

I dont like the way they did the bolt, It would make an excellent sporter project, but a collectible, never.

I wonder why they worry about preserving M48s and arsenal refurbed rifles when the large majority of these rifles have never seen combat. I think I will sport a M48 or something like that so I can have a good deer rifle and something to do. What I wouldnt do is sport an all matching or vet bringback German mauser or an arisaka or something that was actually used in combat or something historical. The Yugo SKS rifles have never seen a day of combat and their only history is sitting in a bath of cosmoline. There is a world of difference between a sportable milsurp and a historical milsurp. These guys on that other site look like fools thinking that we must have all of these guns that havent even been issued to a soldier. Would I sport a post war mauser or a mauser that wasnt used in WWII, of course, would I sport a rifle used in WWII or WWI, no I wouldnt.

There is also a difference between bubba and a true customizer. Here is a bubba job for sale on auction arms

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayi...itemnum=8447620

A bubba doesnt take pride in their work and just hacks at the stock to make the gun resemble a deer rifle, a customizer personalizes the rifle and takes care in making a hunting rifle. Bubbas are vandals, customizers are artists(there are a ton of artists here on this site).

I could translate it into Kana, but not Kanji. I cant even read Kanji.

それは非常に優秀である。 = excellent it is

Thats neat, do you speak japanese? I actually bought all of these rifles in order believe it or not. I am glad I got the type 38, as I was going to spend 200 dollars on a less common variant, but it had a sanded stock, replaced sight, and a bent bolt handle which didnt match it. Although I am going to buy a sporter arisaka someday(if I can find a super cheap one that isnt too sported) so I can have a gun that I am not worried about shooting too much. These arisakas are so very well made, and very high quality(even the last ditches, I had the pleasure of shooting one at a range not to long ago, it was made in about march 1945, and the 100% last ditch rifles started showing up in about early 1944). These rifles are fun and addictive.

Your welcome,

The second one has a good story to it as I got to talk to the vet who captured it a few months after I bought it. I also hunted with the first one in the pic, but didnt even see a deer in the woods.

Not much, but this is my collection of jap rifles.

All the 99s are nagoya. The first one is a second series, next is a third series(only rifle with a mum in my collection), 3rd one is a fourth series, last one is a Koishikawa type 38.

I never thought a frankensporter would look so cool.