pacrat

I would say it is "MUCH" larger dia. than the 06 case. At .550" base dia. it has an unbelted base larger than the belt dia of H&H belted mag. class cases.

A belted case in any magazine rifle is just a sales gimmick for unwitting fools who have been bitten by the magnumitis bug.

Akin to the current trend of painting everything black and calling it tacticool to boost sales.

Most [but not all] shooting sports paraphenalia is designed to boost sales and doesn't really make marked improvements.

Like most fishing tackle is designed to catch fishermen's wallets not fish.

JM2c......but tainted by the fact that I'm a .270 Winnie afficienado.

You maybe thinking of the .264 Win Mag........same .264"/6.5mm bullet and similar ballistics. I think the new Nosler 26 is a fat case and may be troublesome feeding in a controlled feed mauser. But nothing is insurmountable.

It is a SMOKER for sure.............the 264 Win Mag went the way of the 220 swift. They were a bit ahead of their time as far as barrel metallurgy went. Buddy had a 264 Win Mag on a Md 70 and it's barrel only lasted approx 600 rnds.

JM2c

P.S. I still giggle when I make things go Boom. I just prefer it to be more than 1/4" from my nose. Tannerite is awesome!

OK Dude, go to Mom's house and blast off a pound of Tannerite in her basement and see how much SHE giggles.

Just kiddin...............Yes Tannerite is fun stuff............at a distance.

What I conclude form this is that in a Swedish Mauser, with a properly sized chamber and good bolt, and a properly sized case and seated bullet, I should probably not ever see pressure signs if loading to the published data for the older actions. Even to max loads.

Correct as far as primer indications go. The wonderfull 6.5x55 does not rely on high pressure and big boomer magnumitis velocity loads for its much acclaimed efficiency and long range accuracy. It is an almost perfect balance all built around its long for bore dia high BC bullet design.

Other pressure indicators are a stiffer bolt lift. Shiny ring around web of fired case. Rough extraction. Sharp recoil increase with small increment charge increase. All of these things are telling us something. We just have to listen and use accumulated knowledge to intrepret what they are saying.

Best to remember a simple........"all things are variable, all variables are relevent." If you change one thing it also creates variables as to how the other components interact. Something as simple as changing from a Spitzer boolit to a RN design of the same weight will create different pressure levels with the same powder charge. Because of the variable of bearing surface.

An example of this is the new All Copper boolits. They are longer and have more bearing surface than lead cores because they are a lighter metal. Thus even when same weight they increase pressure. Even then another variable is Nosler E-tips v Barnes TSX in a 270 they are both 130 gr spitzers of all copper construction. Yet the E-tip creates much higher pressures than the TSX. Nosler made the E-tip just like a lead core with smooth sides and high resistance. The TSX has bearing bands on the sides and the rifling rides on these, lowering comparative pressure by lowering resistance.

Take Lemski's advice and read, read, read from reputable established sources within the shooting community. The Lyman Manuals are good books. I have several dating back to the 1950's. along with about a dozen others. Those folks with the actual ballistic laboratories and all the years of experience using them have your best interest foremost.

The giggler in Mom's basement making Big Booms and posting on the internet who thinks he's smarter than all those ballisticians and Paul Mauser................well he just isn't.

Be safe, load safe, shoot safe.

JM2c

I am still having a hard time wrapping my head around the pressure thing though. I understand the effects of excessive headspace and seating bullets into the lands and such but those things CAUSE high pressures. Im trying to get my brain around what happens after the pressure develops because that instant is what will do the damage.

 

Let's say a case will show pressure signs at 65k psi with load A.

 

Then we make up load B which also develops 65k psi but with a slower powder.

 

Will load B also show signs of pressure because 65k psi is 65k psi or, is it possible that it will not show signs because the time to develop the 65k psi was slower? (assuming all other variables are the same)

Lets deal with the common misconception that excessive headspace causes higher pressure. It does not. If anything it slightly decreases internal pressure because it creates a larger pressure vessel. What it does do is allow the improperly supported brass case to be over stressed and fail causing the misconception.

Your load A to load B comparison is correct. 65k is 65K and max. pressure level is not time related even thought it happens at different times with different powders. MAX is MAX. It is an absolute.

OK, given it some thought, and here is my take.

You have a very relevent question regarding the fired primer condition as pressure indicator. And IMO anyone who uses only that as the upper parameter for their loading is just waiting for a bolt in the face. Because they are baseing their loading safety on the structural integrety of a primer as opposed to that of their rifle. Just as you suggest.

It is also a very straight forward question. But I don't have a simple straight forward answer. Because my head just doesn't work that way when pondering a subject that is influenced by a plethora of variables, all of which are relevent.

People who purposely load up to the level of imminent primer failure are just damn fools. I personally put them in the same class as internet EGG-SPURTS who live in their Mom's basement and giggle uncontrollably while making things go BOOM.

That pressure indicator is a usefull EARLY WARNING system. Not a GOAL TO BE REACHED.

If while following PROPER SAFE loading technique of choosing compatible components for the round assembled and starting at start level by reputable loading manual and working up slowly with small weight increases you experience hard bolt lift and flattened primers before getting anywhere close to Max published data. Something isn't right. If you intentionally sit down and purposely start loading until something goes wrong. Then you aren't right. In the head.

The difference between magnum and standard primers isn't a stronger cup, it is only a slightly longer flash time to light heavier loads of slow powder.

Big stomper magnums operate close to 70k psi. Small Ring Mauser ammo is rated at about 50k psi. Same primer cups are used in both type ammo. Consistant loads with flattened primers may cause no harm in a modern rifle designed for sustained fire with magnum cartridges. But the same loads in a SR Mauser are causing unseen damage to lug seats, lugs, ring stretch, excess headspace, etc, etc. Accumulated over time these things will eventually cause a catastrophic failure. Usually though damage is caused by head separations, blown primers, etc all of which can and will damage rifle and shooter alike before a catastrophic failure.

Don't exceed maximum charges listed in reputable loading manuals. You have to trust that the actual ballisticians with engineering degrees who work for rifle, ammo, and component makers know more about structural integrity of rifles and ammunition components than the basement giggler. They have millions of dollars worth of tricky toys to measure pressure curves and max levels that loaders can't afford or know how to use if we could.

JM2c

Thanks, pacrat. I'm no expert in this. I just don't want the board to get into trouble. Teh Feds have been known to deliberately do things like set up sales or offers for sale that would violate laws, then come and bust everyone involved. I think that in the interest of the board, we should go out of our way to make sure everything is fully legal and there is no hint that anything might not be fully legal.

10-4 that Dude

You guys just remember about in person transfers or via FFL. We don't want the board to get in trouble. The Feds say a stripped receiver post 1897 is a firearm.

Just for the sake of accuracy. January 1, 1899 is the cutoff date between what is considered an antique or a firearm from a legal standpoint.

Stupid is as Stupid does.

Tom hanks said it but he was just reading a script because he is to stupid to have thought of it on his own. And he is another celebutard O-hole lover who would likely sign such a petition if given a chance.

And as usual when someone actually asks the Liar In Chief a hard question that the world already has the answer to. He either Lies again, obsfucates, reddirects, or misdirects by saying something lame as he did in this interview.

Repeatedly he was asked pointed questions that only required a yes/no answer and instead said "Now We're Focused On".

O-hole is a Lying A-hole

JM2c

I'm certainly not an egg-spurt but I've trained many GOOD DOGS.

A few pointers.

[1] No dog is smart..........that implies cognitive reasoning capability. Dogs don't have that ability. But they can learn. And a really well trained dog can have an understood vocabulary of approx 200 words. Some are easier to train because they are more predisposed to please their pack leader. That be you.

[2] Dogs learn by repetitive positive reinforcement for good acts. And repetitive negative reinforcement for bad acts. This is called "conditioned reflex". You have to decide good/bad because they don't know the difference. You have to be "CONSISTANT" or you just confuse and conflict them.

[3] Real good start that he already knows it pleases you for him to dump outside. NEVER hesitate, him dumping on floor you already know was your fault. Even though you know it was your fault, it is still your job to make him feel guilty for not holding it by scolding him. Everytime.

[4] Don't take him out to poop, let him out to poop. But watch him and don't let him in until done. Then do so immediately and praise him.

If he just yelps and scratches door, time for negative reinforcement. He is already a skiddish pup, that is a help. Wait inside door quietly where he doesn't see you. SLAP the door and make him jump while scolding with a firm "NO" if he does the scratch/yelp thing. It usually doesn't take very many times until he associates the scratching/yelping with an undesirable scary result. And it reinforces that even if he can't see you, there will be negative results. As soon as he does business "CALL" him in and praise him.

[5] His relationship between barking neighbor dogs has nothing to do with the [you boss/me dog] bond. But you can use it to MODIFY his response to them while reinforcing his response to you. Sit with him "close to the fence" with a pocket full of treats,[ best done when he is good and hungry]. Pet him, rub his belly/ears, rump whatever he likes to get his full undivided pleasurable attention. If he shies away drag him if necessary and sit him down. If he turns his head or tries to run, jerk his choke chain and demand his attention. Demand he sit where you want him to sit. REMEMBER who is boss. 15 minutes at a time with at least 1/2 hr between sessions. As many times a day as you can manage. All the while rewarding him with nice words and treats for paying attention to you and ignoring the barking idiots next door.

He learns that their noise has no ill effects. But sitting with you close to their noise is rewarding. If he is really really rowdy and just won't sit still. Take him away from the situation then bring him back but farther away. Don't just move back from the fence. Make it YOUR idea where you sit. By leaving the area for a time and coming back he disassociates that it was his idea to misbehave that allowed him to prevail. Move a little closer to the fence each session until he is totally comfortable with where ever you want to sit as long as he is ALLOWED to accompany you.

Most dogs are better people than most people are.

JM2c

Amen That

Most of Commyfornia is trying to outlaw plastic bags from stores. Putting thousands more out of work. All in the name of "GREEN". The only way plastic bags leave my house is one of three ways. With garbage in it. Rolled into a ball and tied in a knot for recycling if it has a hole. But the vast majority get rolled into a ball loosely tied so they don't unroll and placed in other bags until full. When I get 10 or 12 bags of bags, I transport them to the local Salvation Army food bank so they can be reused to provide food for families in need of assistance.

Yes there are 2 legged pigs who use mother earth as there personal trash receptacle. But people of that bent are also the same ones who drive down the street throwing fast food bags of crap out there car windows. All the stupid "GREENIE" feel good but actually do nothing laws won't change those people.

They were raised that way and learned the behaviour from their parents.

JM2c

Maybe somebody thinks so.

What I see is a buggar stuck on a stick

I'm far from an expert. But I thought I'd offer this for you to give a little thought. In Missouri we are required to have 8 hours of class room training as part of getting our CCW , which I have in addition to some advanced courses I've taken .In all of these classes they stress the point that in todays world of sue happy lawyers if you have to use your weapon you will more than likely end up in court over it right or wrong. I'm sure your sharp enough to know that. Something that I had not thought about was that reloads are evil and reloaded hollow points.... well they are the most evil thing on the planet. Every one of my instructors stressed making sure that not only did you not want anyone alive to testify against you ,you want you ammo store bought and it needs to say something about defense on the box. Just as an aside they also suggest calling a preacher at the same time you call your lawyer, looks good in court ya know.Jim

I'm far from an expert. But I thought I'd offer this for you to give a little thought. In Missouri we are required to have 8 hours of class room training as part of getting our CCW , which I have in addition to some advanced courses I've taken .In all of these classes they stress the point that in todays world of sue happy lawyers if you have to use your weapon you will more than likely end up in court over it right or wrong. I'm sure your sharp enough to know that. Something that I had not thought about was that reloads are evil and reloaded hollow points.... well they are the most evil thing on the planet. Every one of my instructors stressed making sure that not only did you not want anyone alive to testify against you ,you want you ammo store bought and it needs to say something about defense on the box. Just as an aside they also suggest calling a preacher at the same time you call your lawyer, looks good in court ya know.Jim

I agree with all you,ve said. I'm in Commyfornia, where you can't throw a dead fish over your shoulder without hitting a liability attorney. For clarity sake my 45 acp defense ammo is not reloads. It is out of the box PMC which has shown best expansion for me for factory ammo.

My practice ammo, which I've fired thousands of, are hard cast 195 gr SWC from Lee moulds. All three of my 45's have been throated, ported, and polished, and tuned to feed both reliably.

Hmmm, one question with many sides to possible answers. First yes, 380's, 9mm's, and 38spl's do expand but .45's never shrink. Is one line of thought.

On the other several thoughts. Hardball ammo no matter what the cal. has a tendency to over penetrate and not dump all its energy in the target. My own personal choice for "DEFENSE" ammo in my 45 acp's is a 185 grn hollowpoint loaded as hot as possible. I want it to expand "VIOLENTLY" not just to do as much tissue damage as possible but so as not to croak a neighbor after the fact. If you poke a hole in a critter in a vital area it will die [sooner or later]. If you poke a BIGHOLE that gets EVEN BIGGER when it enters at high velocity it creates massive HYDOSTATIC shock which causes cessation of bodily functions much quicker.

If ever forced to shoot another human being. I want them dead ASAP. My LEO friends always say a one sided story is much preferrable to a responding officer than having to listen to some criminal whine about his lousy childhood.

Thoughts expressed are as usual .............JM2c

Gee, I wonder if they'll also regulate forest fires and volcanoes???

LEOs should have lectured the dickhead that called them that. Real guns go BANG< BOOM< or KaPOW. Un-guns go Phiiiiit.

Why the love affair with the 9mm?

Due to the "Spray n Pray" mentality that spilled over since the latter half of WWII. With most involved in the conflict using cheap to make and easy to teach use of sub-guns aka machine pistols. Then the US jumped on the 9mm bandwagon to standardize with NATO for handguns in IIRC 1985.

Cops went 9mm to compete with the gangbangers high cap bullet spitters at the urging of Media and out of touch Chiefs of Police.

Cops now compete with the Army to see how much ammo they can waste and collateral damage be damned in gun fights.

That is another reason the media is full of incidents where half a dozen cops spray over a hundred rounds of ammo in the general direction of a bad guy and then miss or only wound him.

I own 3 .45acp 1911's and no 9mm's.

just say'n

Yo, Flatulant Fowl.

I'm game whenever needed. Just remind me when that is.

Remember wars are planned!

 

In the middle east getting someone else to do your dirty work by starting wars is just normal practic for them.

Amen that! It was NOT Iraqis or Afgoonies that flew planes into the Twin Towers on 9-11-01. It was a Saudi planned and financed operation from the get go. If there is ever peace in the middle east, the Saudi's will loose the US Military to do their bidding. And the leverage of "hosting" US Military bases there.

Well, I have looked at the recommended sites and came up empty. I also found a 23 stamped on the extractor. It is fairly large and fancy compared to the other stamps. I also found a small plain 61 on the bolt release. I tried to disassemble the bolt but could not. I could see a small T on what I believe would be the firing pin. I will try again tomorrow to get the bolt apart.

Here is a C & P from a post I did on the Mauser Central forum a while back. Your rifle has a Buehler 2 position after market safety not the original 3 position mil safety. Take down is different.

 

Your safety is an aftermarket 2 position not an original 3 position.

 

Pull bolt from rifle.

 

Hook cocking piece over edge of table or workbench. Pull down on bolt body until front of cocking piece clears rear of shroud.

 

Slip a penney or dime between Cocking piece and shroud.

 

Release tension by relaxing the pull down motion. Until penney is captured by CP against rear of shroud.

 

Unscrew shroud/CP/ Firing pin assem. from bolt body

 

drill a 1/8" hole in a block of scrap wood.

 

Put point of FP in hole.

 

Push down on shroud until FP spring compresses enough to release penney. HOLD THERE.

 

Unscrew CP from FP. Give it a 90 degree turn to disengage. Slowly ease shroud off FP while maintaining good grip on shroud.

 

You're done.

 

See, wasn't that easy???

JM2c

Thank God for wheel weights.

 

Oh, wait, those are harming wildlife too. I'm sure those will be copper now.

Nope, they are now Zinc, grab all the lead ones you can find. But don't mix the two. Zinc will ruin your bullet alloy.

According to the chatter and FAQ's from bullet manufacturers. Closing this smelter will have no effect on bullet lead supply. They all use secondary sources from several manufacturers most "recycled" lead.

Merry Christmas from Santa to the White House

Any places to look for clues as to when it was made?

Yes, under the scope bases, and under the woodline of the stock. Clear close ups of any markings or proofs can likely be translated.

OBTW, you have a Large Ring Model 1898. Many ww2 mausers were letter and number coded to keep the allies guessing where the factories were.

Beautifull Rifle by the way.