Thor

I had a similar discussion several years ago with an ole Jarhead gunsmith, on the subject of cryo and molecular stress relief. He was pursuaded, reasonably so, that age does the same thing. I asked how long. "Oh, about 50 years". That's when I determined to buy Mauser barrels when possible. Already a Mauser fan, I determined that a Swede barrel is far better than any domestic barrel. Also, the lathe process used three stabilizers (that's why you have steps on a Mauser barrel). Mauser craftsmanship far exceeds all out modern technology. And an aged barrel is better than a new barrel. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Thor

AGREED! I have a set of Herters micrometer dies that I love. I can get dead accurate on bullet depth. Very consistent production.

Geez Doble Troble, I don't know if I can help much, but I'll throw in my 2 penny's worth. I just sold off my K31's a couple of months ago but didn't have any problems with factory bullets. AND, I don't know zip about cast bullets. I do know it was hard to beat the GP-11. That is one accurate load. I sold the rifles before being able to duplicate GP-11. But I can address the "Lee FL sizing die just barely gets the full neck before bottoming on the shell holder." I have two different shellholders for my Swede setup, a Lee and RCBS. They have different thicknesses, or distance from bottom of the brass to surfaces that touches the die. Thus, they give different setback/headspace results. You might want to purchase a different brand shellholder just to see if it makes a difference. Another alternative is to take a (spare) shellholder and shave off a couple of thousandths. It's got to be square though. Presses don't like unsquare surfaces. Best done with a mill, not by hand. Like I say, I don't know much about cast bullets, but believe your problem is probably more in shoulder headspace than in bullet.

It's been several years since I loaded for 243, but still load for its brother 6MM. I've got to agree with the guys recommending 4350 (I prefer IMR over Hodgdon). Everybody thinks slower powders are for the Magnums, but that's not true. I like to find a powder that just fills the case at medium load. That way, light load is around 90% capacity and max load is lightly compressed. The gurus (and I agree) that this is more consistent (standard deviation) than 80% or less loads. 4895 is just too fast, and doesn't fill the case, producing wider standard deviation. I'll also ditto that a deer can't tell the difference between 200fps. That's generally the range on light to max loads. Look for accuracy, not velocity. Trajectory doesn't change that much either. I also agree with waterdogz on watching out for hot loads developed in cold weather. That same load will pop primers in the middle of August. Ask me how I know.

Can I jump in? Sounds to me like you have a headspace problem. The dies are not setting the shoulder back and headspace is too tight. Factory brass should not be hardened after one firing. There is something else that needs to be looked at. Shellholders can make a difference. I have one RCBS shellholder and also a Lee shellholder on my Swede setup. The two shellholders have different thicknesses and result in different setback/headspace. Suits me as I like a partial setback instead of full setback. By using the one with less setback, my reloads give about a .003" headspace instead of .007". Stony Point used to make a gauge toolset with attachments for different calibers, designed to measure the distance from base of the brass to a midway point on the shoulder. By checking new brass versus fireformed brass, you get an indication of headspace. I say "used to make". I can not find them on vendors or their website anymore, but do find Hornady has a similar setup, albeit, about twice the price of the old Stony Point set. Such is Free Enterprise and profit making.

I tend to agree that freefloating is the way to go, but like Spiris says, handloading development has always been a part of my accurizing, and I've never had opportunity to scientifically test for freefloating alone. I have had opportunity to evaluate bedding before and after, and definitely believe every domestic and sportered rifle should be properly bedded. The original Mausers had a pressure point. Most of my experience is with Swedes, and I would have to say, they shoot pretty good with the pressure point. Their craftsmen were also expert at hand inletting and bedding. They didn't cheat with epoxy the way we do today. If starting from scratch, I suggest trying freefloating. Record your results. Then put a slight pressure pad, such as a business card or two, under the barrel. If it improves it, okay. Lay a coat of epoxy near the end and use the business card/s to hold the barrel in proper place. Once epoxy sets, remove the cards, and you will have the ideal pressure point. Essential to the process, whichever way you go, is to make sure the barrel channel is sealed so moisture doesn't shift the stock and change POI.

With no more recoil than a 22 has, recoil is not as important as just fitting the stock with glove fit, no slop. The rear tang would be a stabilizing factor, and cradling the receiver. I don't know how much effort should be put in a Romanian trainer. I've had one, not too much impressed with it. For me, an old Savage or Stevens would be a good economical candidate. However, they are becoming collectors now and not so economical. I was shocked at prices I saw at an estate auction last Saturday.

What in the world? IZH, what are you doing over here moving around incognito under the pseudonym "littlecanoe"? Afraid somebody will catch you running around? Frankly, the other forum is boring me. Nothing going on much. Arch hasn't even come out to play in over a week We've talked about this stock in the other forum. Seems I may have even tried to sell it to you. I think I've got it within 1/16" now. It's coming along, just slow work. Rod (Tanglewood) has had the bolt, putting a new handle on it. Supposed to be back in today's mail, along with bolts for my Twede and 1909 Swede. I'll know a whole lot more then, how much more I have to go. Rod also worked on the magazine. It is single stack and designed for .473" brass. It holds the larger Swede brass down lower, and too low for the bolt to catch it to slide into the chamber. Hopefully that works too. I need all these pieces back together before I really have a definitive answer. I'll let you know more after the mail runs and I get this thing back together. I might be closer than I think. It just looked mighty gappy while I was getting the initial fit. It is definitely different than a Mauser. (I think it was a Mauser creation but lacks the major Mauser features of the 93-98, so I don't consider it a Mauser). You can allow a lot of slop on the later Mausers because it does not have the fitted removable magazine that must mate with the ramp.

I bought an 1891 Argie 2-3 years ago and put a Swede barrel on it, left in Argie stock. A few months back I bought a Herters Monte Carlo stock on eBay. The seller didn't even know what it was, just cleaning out "pop's" attic after the funeral. Anyway, I have found it a task to bed it. It was far from 99% inletted. I finally got the top and bottom inletted to fit, but now realize I've got to marry up that triggerguard and magazine to the receiver in order for the magazine to have ammo where it needs to be to feed. I've got a long ways to go. Anybody ever done one of these? Should I inlet the triggerguard/mag deeper or drop the receiver down lower? By raising the triggerguard, it will change the grip. But by dropping the receiver, the bolt is not going to clear the rollover cheekpiece without removing a lot of wood.

Rod, I thought I recognized it. I was there when he did that. Same day we did two of the bolts you have just cleaned up for me. We gave new meaning to "Ozark Tinkerin' Fools" that day.

Tanglewood, that one looks mighty familiar. Is that my Twede before plastic surgery?

I use Devcon almost exclusively. For release, I've used Johnson paste wax, believe it or not. Primary purpose is to fill the pores of the metal so it will not absorb the epoxy. Carnuba wax or Turtle wax is probably better, but I've got a can of Johnsons that I can't get used up. Supposedly the Carnuba and Turtle protect a car best from the elements, thus they must do a great job of filling the pores. Further comment on wax. I don't use oil on my barrels or exterior. I use the wax. Seems to smell less and shed rain/snow water better. My nose is not very sensitive, but maybe somebody would like to comment on which wax is least "odoreous"?

Doble Troble, I missed that line when I read it last week. Just so you know, I'm aging, and don't want a barrel younger than me.(:-) That means it's got to be at least 60 years old. hehehe

One point I missed on the preference of a Swede barrel. It has a 1 in 7.9" twist. If you buy the A&B, it will be 1 in 9" twist. That's okay for the lighter bullets, but if you shoot the heavier bullets, the tighter twist will work best. IMO, the 6.5 in any chamber is awesome. It does have the accuracy and penetration that is hard to beat, even with the lauded 308.

I'm sure that the other guys will say, "what else did you to expect Thor to say?". Yeah, well, seems I have a reputation for it, but I've just got to agree with Doble Troble on this. But let me add a few conditions. Use a Swedish barrel, not an aftermarket barrel. First of all they are seasoned by at least 50 years,which is the equivalent to cryogenics in that it relieves molecular stress in the steel. Secondly, the Mauser machining process far exceeds any domestic barrel. Thirdly, the ammo will feed through the 98 like it was made for it. Fourthly, the Swede barrel will screw right into a K. Kale action. Okay, the K. Kale is not as polished as the K98, but it's just as strong and can be blueprinted just like any other Mauser. It may be hard to find a "new" 29" barrel, but I still see ads for the 23" M38 barrel. I doubt you would want the Carbine barrel for your purpose, but there seems to be a few of them left. OR, you might consider a 96 takeoff barrel. Lots of them are still in good shape, just might need recrowning and cleaning up. I have several Swedes and will vouch for .240" groups with little effort, and none of them are blueprinted, just glassbedded. With a little work, I think they could make the competition grade. I built a Twede last year, a Swede barrel on a Turk action, but haven't had opportunity to put it through its paces yet, so can't say how it will do.

Every time I see this thread, I've wanted to answer that question. But hey, Odie's Dad is a nice guy, so I've passed. He reminds me of my cocker spaniel. Nice to have around, even if he does chew on your slippers. (:-)

I think you can forget about the 29" barrels in 6.5x55. They reached the BOTTOM of the barrel. But there are still some 23" and 17" barrels out there. Samco DID have some left. The Midway barrels will be A&B, probably 1 in 9 twist on the 6.5, not sure on the 7x57. Another thing, the old barrels are aged. Aging has same effect on metal as cryogenics, destressing the molecules. I'll take the old Mauser barrels any day. Also, craftsmanship is much better than any domestic barrel. 257 Roberts is another option for the small ring actions.

I've been in Missouri too long. I just had to try it. So I bought a jug, and applied it to the cylinder with a rag, not submerged. Best I've come up with is a graying. Project is a snubnose 38 that is in sore need of beautifying. I may work on it some more tomorrow, submerging it if I can figure out how to disassemble it completely. If I submerge the whole pistol, should I plug the barrel?

It sounds pretty much Latino for sure. Spanish, Mexican, Chilean, etc. Surely there are some markings somewhere to help out on this. It wouldn't hurt to have it slugged, but hey, if it's 7x57, that's a pretty good chamber anyway, provided the riflings and crown are strong. Otherwise, threads should be same as the Swede. There are still plenty of new Swedish warehouse barrels out there. The 29" seems to be getting scarce but I'm still seeing ads for M38 and M94 barrels. It's been a while since I've had a Latino, but seems the guides are different and the Swede bolt will not work, even if you could find one, which is next to impossible. So you will need to find a Latino bolt.

Even a jig requires common sense. ANY tool that does not fit the application properly, needs adjusting. I've tapped a couple of K. Kales and not had the problem others complain about. Must be something I'm doing right, making sure everything is aligning and there is no binding when tightening the bolts.

Must agree with z1r. The analysis of an untrue receiver is strange. I've never seen a Mauser action, even a K. Kale that was not true to the barrel. Even at that, E.R. Shaw should have caught it and corrected it. I wonder if it is the barrel, not the action that is not true. E.R. Shaw's prices are not cheap. They should have installed the barrel properly, true to the receiver. Regardless that the Millett rings fixed the problem, until the barrel is trued to the action, I question that you will accomplish the accuracy of a blueprinted rifle. That's what you paid for. That's what you should get. I may sound hardnose, but you paid good money for the job. Expect it. I agree that they have a reputation to uphold. Let them redo the job.

I'm with odies dad on using Millet Rings to solve the problem, but I also believe the gunsmith owes you big time. I have a friend who had M95 held up 6 months by the gunsmith for a simple D&T and bolt bend. When he finally went to get it, it was a mess. The gunsmith gave him his M95 back PLUS a VZ24, and didn't charge him a dime. He patched the 95 and still hunted with it. I informed him that I have jig and blocks, he has torch, so we plan to do the VZ24 together for next year. Sometimes it's best to get the jig and bending blocks and do the job yourself, unless you're all thumbs.

Sounds kinda like heat paste. Spray should be mighty convenient and cleaner to work with than paste.

z1r, that's the way I do stocks, handrub a coat every couple of hours and can do 6 coats in a day. As previous coat is still soft, bubbles and errors can be worked out and folowing coats bond to previous coats, building as you go. Otherwise you have to sand a hardened layer to give next layer something to bite to. But bluing is a different mentality altogether. My question, is it similar to Oxphoblue? Once metal is clean, apply Oxpho, burnish (or card), then apply again, burnish, etc. Of course, with Oxphoblue, you can continue the process without delay. What is the process of rust blue? Is it similar except for the delay? I'm not worried about time, just want a better job than I'm getting, and not set for hot blue. Some of the spray ons call for baking afterward. Don't have a big enough oven for that.

Doble Troble, is the process about the same as Oxpho Blue? Except for the time process?