Clark

Short chambered A&B barrels are not just short chambered, they are narrow chambered.

A cartridge will stick out an inch.

It depends on how narrow the headspace gauge is.

I have two A&B short chambered barrels here, and the headspace gauge sticks out 0.3" on one, and 0.14" on the other

But a sized case sticks out 0.32" and 0.54" respectively.

Obviously, one chamber was cut deeper, but narrower than the other.

As long as the reamer pilot can reach the bore, it should be ok.

Why the .243 Win? In a Mauser, the 6mm/.244 might be a better choice for feeding.

This is for a girl on the East coast that will use factory ammo, and I have a 243 reamer.

I am sporterizing a rifle and giving it to the girl of an Iraq vet I have never met.

I have been working every night for 8 days:

The list of what I have done is:

True face of receiver

Center the barrel in the lathe

Change lathe gears for 12TPI

Grind 55 degree thread cutting tool

Cut barrel threads, shoulder, clearance, tenon, and chamfer chamber orifice

Grind trigger hump

Mill off charging hump

Chamfer charging hump

File charging hump

sandpaper charging hump

Drill and Tap for scope mounts

Shorten mount screws

Mill mount for height and offset

Cut off bolt handle

Weld extension on bolt handle

Put extended bolt handle in lathe and smooth out weld in the center

Weld extended bolt handle to body

Mill welded bolt handle

File and sand sharp edges on bolt handle

Blue barrel

Blue Receiver

Yet to be done:

Get ammo to feed.

Cut down trigger guard width

Blue trigger guard

Mill safety shroud

Blue Shroud

Assemble M70 safety

Broach barrel channel in stock

Pillar bed stock

Glass bed stock

Sling

Load ammo

Break in barrel

Mount target scope & test accuracy

Mount hunting scope and sight in

Ship

I got stuck last night on the feeding.

In the past, I have got 300 Win mag to feed perfectly, even up side down in am VZ24. To do that I made the mag longer in the rear and opened the lips.

So on the 243, I can cut the lips, weld the lips, block off some magazine in the rear, block some in the front, or a combination.

What did you do?

TIA

Clark

Cleaning welding paste out of a bolt body with a tooth brush and hot water is followed with twisted paper towels, compressed air, and an oily toothbrush.

I have done this dozens of times, and sometimes I make the toothbrush head narrower.

Aluminum conducts heat 5 times better

Aluminum has twice the specific heat

Steel has three times the density.

That makes Aluminum over 3 times better than steel of equal volume.

Copper, bronze, or brass is even better than Aluminum and that's what we made the buttressing threads from 8 years ago when my brother and I started this sporterizing.

The threads should fit tight and have welding paste all over the place.

And how to make buttressing theads?

Just screw up the "V" threads, and you are there:)

I converted a VZ24 to 300 Win mag and made up dummy ammo with Hornady 220 gr Round nose, becuase I have a huge number of these blems.

I cut on the lips until it fed perfectly, even upside down.

I shot single shot at the range with 180 gr TSX pointed bullets.

Then I went hunting, only to find out it did not feed right with pointed bullets.

The tip of the top cartridge in the magazine could get caught between the receiver and the front of the magazine box.

What does it all mean?

One must practice feeding with dummy cartridges just like the ones that will be used.

drawing of how to make an action wrench from MacFarland Book

pic of how my action wrench builds improved over time.

What I learned was that there is place on the Mauser where the large ring is over flat bottom behind the recoil lug. The action bolts should be in this same plane. This can be accomplished by cutting a relief in the face of the wrench to allow the action to slide into the wrench deeper. Without this trick there is a bind on the bolt threads that makes them hard to turn and get beat up a little and some bluing gets rubbed off the receiver.

My thread on this forum on April 1 about my soldered together .223 Turkish Mauser

I took that Mauser to the range, even though I had no .223 extractor that day.

I ejected the empties with a ramrod.

I managed to get one .9" 5 shot group at 100 yards with a old crudely tapered 22 rim fire barrel soldered on to a Turk barrel stub.

Range report 2007-11-30 6mmBR Sav 99 1903 Turk .223

 

A) 6mmBR

From Ebay I got a 6mm PPC take off barrel with 460 rounds fired, 5.1

pounds, 21.5", one 14" twist, Stainless Steel Shilen for $75 + $12

shipping = $87.

From the Monroe gunshow I got a 1918 Savage 99 take down 250-3000 for

$175 dickered down from $200.

From Pacific Tool and gauge I got a 6mmBR reamer with .272" neck and

throated for 87 gr Vmax [Fb .085] for $138 + $9 ship = $147

I cut the chamber, shoulder, threads, extractor relief, shank relief,

bolt head relief, and loading finger relief. I headspaced with Lapua

6mmBR Norma brass. I was shooting 6mmBR rem brass, which did not fit

until I FL sized with a Forster 6mmBR die with neck honed out to .265".

I drilled and tapped the 1918 receiver with the Sav 99 308 as a pattern.

I cannibalized the Weaver scope mounts I had put on a Sav 99 308.

I ordered some 65 gr Vmax .243" bullets from Lock stock and Barrel. I

also ordered some 75 gr Vmax .243, 87 gr Vmax, and 129 gr 6.5mm SST

bullets while I was buying. The box came without the 65 gr Vmax. I

worried that the one twist in 14" barrel could not stabilize the .935"

long 75 gr Vmax bullets. I moly coated the bullets and tried anyway. I

wanted as much velocity as I could get. It looked like from Quickload

that 35 gr W748 would be the best. It would not fit. I wound up using

33.5 gr W748 to get it to fit. Quickload predicts 3208 fps 55 kpsi for

2.222" OAL, 21,375" barrel, 33.5 gr 748 and 75 gr moly Vmax.

I put on a Leupold VXIII 6.5x20x50 Varmint that I had never shot before

with Burris medium tactical rings.

 

http://www.accuweather.com said that the wind in Issaquah would be 7

mph, but when the range opened at noon, there was no wind. Black powder

smoke clouds were very slow to move.

I was firing from a a Dog-gone-good Large shooting bag and wedge instead

of a steady rest.

0.1" 3 shot group at 50 yards [nice first group for a rifle, very

encouraging]

I measured 3051 fps and 3100 fps, firing into the dirt to get over my

chronograph

2.3" 6 shot group at 100 yards

I started wiping the sizing wax and spilled powder off the ammo, because

something was going wrong.

1.35" 3 shot group at 100 yards

I reasoned that the one in 14" twist could not stabilize all the bullets

out to 100 yards, as some were going in one hole and some were flyers.

I went back to 50 yards

0.2" 3 shot group at 50 yards.

I went back to 100 yards:

1.65" 3 shot group at 100 yards

I concluded that shooting any more 75 gr Vmax ammo with that barrel is a

waste.

 

I need to order some 65 gr Vmax from another source.

The Sav 99 could use a trigger job.

 

.223

I brought along another rifle in case the 75 gr Vmax would not stabilize

in the 14" twist barrel. That was an old .223 project:

1903 Turkish Mauser ~ $80

.224" barrel 1 in 16" twist, roughly tapered, too small a shank for

threads, $33 + $11= $44 Ebay

.223 reamer from Manson, with .250" neck and .050" shorter throat

I cut that breech off a Turk barrel, bored it out and Silver soldered

the barrel in. I chambered it. Randy Ketchum welded the bolt handle

along with a dozen other for $60 each.

I drilled and tapped the receiver.

I put an old Vari x III 6.5x20x40 target dot boosted by precision

reticule to 13x40x40.

The extractor weld broke, so I used a cleaning rod for extraction

between each shot.

33 gr Vmax .223 mixed brass sized with .245" honed out Forster die, 15

gr Blue Dot, 2.170" OAL.

 

.75" 3 shot at 50y

.95" 5 shot at 100 y

1.125" 5 shot at 100 y

1.1" 5 shot at 100 y

 

That rifle would shoot better with and extractor and a trigger job.

I have a 24/47 that I pulled the barrel, drilled and tapped.

The breech face of the barrel is not flat, but has some extractor relief feature.

I would rather have the longer VZ24 actions, but they are no longer on the primary surplus market.

Z1R,

Your fancy pictures got me to buy a TIG welder.

It takes more skill than bending bolts

I have done a hundred work ups in 9mm that resulted in the same primer falling out and guppie belly bulge.

I have done the same in 25acp, 32acp, 7.62x25mm, 380, 9x23mm, 40sw, 10mm, and 45acp.

You had too much pressure.

That can be caused by a number of things or combinations:

too much powder

wrong powder

bullet jammed into lands

bullet pinched by brass and chamber

fouled throat

bore obstruction

switching to magnum primer

The case failure you experienced is not too dangerous, except in a CZ52 the chamber can fail.

But if you continue to add more powder the primer will pierce, the guppie belly will open into a hole, and the case head will blow off.

When the case head blows off the extractor can exit stage right at lethal velocities.

There used to be Weaver #45 military rear mounts for Mausers, but one can just relieve the rear of the rear base with a grinder or die grinder until it fits over he hump.

Picture of AR riser for scope mount on my Hex M39.

I think that the 91/30 action is ugly and inferior to Mausers, but still pretty good.

Somewhere on the internet I saw someone add an aftermarket trigger with a safety.

When I was a kid we used to make firing pins with a file, a nail, and an electric drill.

What does the bore measure on your barrel Clark?? MV

I think it was on the small side.

I know pressure.

Thicker is better, but once something is .2" thick, it is usually stronger than the brass.

The problem with 22 rimfire barrels in .223 is the steel is too soft and wears fast [i read this in books, but have not measured it]

The Douglas rimfire barrels are 4140 steel.

The only problem remaining is the slow twist rate.

55 gr bullets will not work.

35 gr bullets work great.

In between depends on velocity and bullet length.

5-23-2007 I went to the range with some newly acquired replacement guns:

3) 1903 Turkish Mauser, with the barrel cut off and a 22 rimfire very old new stock barrel from ebay [the add said Douglas, but who knows?] Silver Soldered on, old Leupold M4 scope, welded bolt and ground down for scope this morning, cut down stock, barrel channeled out this morning, scope mount glass bedded yesterday, I went to the hospital from grinding the ears off this receiver. I cut the chamber with a .250" neck .223 reamer from Manson. The rifle cost $60 from Century, the barrel was $33 on ebay, and the scope mounts were $10. Not much into this rifle.

The bore was previously unfired, so cleaning was easy with Alcohol before moly burnishing.

a) a few shots to get it on the paper

1.4" 5 shot @50 yards

c) 0.9" 5 shot@50 yards

d) 0.77" 5 shot @50yards

Two of us guys with 2 vehicles went to Montana 5-24 to 5-29 to look for land to buy and prairie dogs to shoot.

On an Indian reservation our guide loaned his .223 to the other guy, because his 17HMR was no good at 250 yards.

He came back wanting a .223, so I gave him the Silver Soldered rifle, with 4X scope.

He has not given it back yet, so maybe they bonded:)

I told him, "Fix the trigger, get a bigger scope, maybe it will shoot, maybe not."

Many of the guns made 100 years ago were take downs.

My brother was speculating last week that it was because the car was not popular yet.

The rifle or shotgun had to fit on a horse, bicycle, or luggage on a train or ship.

I just got back from a varmint hunting trip, and I filled the car to the ceiling with stuff.

The .223 web is ~.175" thick compared to Mauser case heads ~.205" thick.

The distance between the bolt fact and the butting side of the inner C ring is ~.105.

The extractor must not tough the barrel, is the extractor is limited to .105" above the bolt face.

The .223 web is thick enough, I guess I don't have to be too anal about case support.

I have bought a Mauser extractor blank from Brownells and fitted it and cut it down to .223.

I am not doing that anymore.

It is too much trouble to fit around the extractor collar.

I have taken the stock Mauser extractor off and had more material TIG welded on.

Then I cut it down to .223.

I will do that again this time.

The bolt face also needs some material trimmed off the rim so that the extra extractor material can spin around.

I have not been bushing the firing pin hole to convert from large primer to small primer.

The Mauser firing pin works just fine on small rifle primer to way past the SAAMI max average pressure for .223.

Some material can be take off the end of the extractor so that the breech can be made longer to give more case support.

The extractor also needs to get the chisel type bevel on the end, unless you have figured out how to make it controlled feed.

I cut down the small shank of the Douglas 1 in 16" trist barrel to fit inside the bored out Turk stub.

Then I Silver Soldered them together.

The idea is to make a .223 that shoots 35 gr bullets at 3600 fps with 15 gr Blue Dot and hit ground squirrels out to 180 yards.

I went to see Randy Ketchum of Lynwood Guns [a real gunsmith] today to get the last of my chopped VZ24 parts.

He had seen this thread and had some criticism for me.

He said that every bore is bent.

Every bore has a spine.

You make a spud [he does it with a tool post grinder], .0002" smaller than the bore.

You dial in the breach.

You adjust the muzzle spider, possibly off center, so that the spud is dialed in at more than one distance from the breech.

Then the chamber is cut.

That way the chamber is cut concentric to the part of the bore just in front of the chamber.

The muzzle may be whirling around catywumpas, but that does not matter.

The 85 gr Factory S&B ammo is nearly all I have tried.

I may have exagerated how bad it is.

Here are my range notes:

 

First trip

 

 

1) I started out with some new S&B Tokarev ammo, with oil still in the

bore, with a 40X scope, the best I did was 1.2" 3 shot group at 100 yards.

 

2) At the end of 165 rounds fired in two hours [half the rate of

squirrel shooting]but the accuracy went down to a 4" 13 shot group at

50 yards,

 

Second trip

1) 30 Mauser rifle with M8-4x Leupold scope, S&B ammo and then Polish

surplus ammo.

a) S&B ammo 1.3" 5 shot group at 50 yards, 2.33" 5 shot group at 100

yards [could barely see the target with 4x scope]

Polish 1955 surplus ammo 4.8" 19 shot group at 50 yards

I should go to the range again and try longer bullets.

Clark,

 

That is an interesting barrel contour. Right where the steady is set up, there appears to be a raised ring. I assume that you will cut a dovetail for a rear sight in that ring, correct?

 

Clemson

Correct.

That is a Rem700 30-06 take off barrel from Ebay that I was re chambering to 30 Mauser [7.62x25mm] to be put on a 1903 Turk.

I have bought dozens of old take off barrels off ebay.

The barrel was too short to fit through the headstock, so I had it in the steady rest.

That was a 6" at 50 yards boondoggle project:(

Today I ordered a .272" neck 6mmBR reamer from Pacific tool and gauge.

I have 5 benchrest take off 6mmPPC barrels and THIS TIME I am going to make a tackdriver.

It could happen.

I dial in both ends of the barrel and put the breech swiveling in a gimbal of a single wire wrap in the 4 jaw, but I worry that the barrel is is flexed and not parallel with the lathe. That is why I push with something that provides axial force but not radial alignment.

I am sure there are alot of ways to do it, but like glass bedding, handloading, scope mounting, etc. when we each get our own system tuned up and working, it seems like the only way.

The first barrel we chambered in 2000, took the two machinists and I all night.

7 years later in my own shop,I cut threads and chambers like I am cleaning fish. It is a conditioned response.

I have a system.

As soon as a rifle gets a .5" 5 shot group at 100 yards, the chambering process was good enough for me, now to produce them faster.