Ron J

Had trouble posting in sporterizing, will try here. Anyway, it's a Mauser problem my brother and I can't figure out. He has a Brazilian 98, DWM, Berlin. He rebarreled with a .338 Shaw barrel, Dave Manson .338-06 reamer and checked with Forrester gages. He had lapped the lugs very little and has 95% fit on bottom lug and about 50% on top. All on one side of the ejector slot. There was about .0025" gap at the front shoulder when torqued to the inner. Shot 5 heavies to check for set back tied to a tire. The bolt comes up but stops and has to be slapped to open. Also, the primers backed out some. Fired 36 more rounds , some heavy, some light. The primers come out on the light loads and are flattened on the heavies. Z once explained the primer comes out first then the case stretches back around it. This makes sense (except for the first 5 which were heavy.) All cases were full length sized and are lengthening .005" when checking the datum with a Stoney Point gage. Figuring set back we checked with the head space gages and there was slightly more closing on the no go. Very slight. He pulled the barrel and there is a bright spot where the bottom lug rests, but no steps. Anyway, faced off .0015" from the tenon and torqued back on. Now it is just a touch away from closing on the go. We have a tight chamber. Shot 4 more light loads and the primers are coming out of all four. The first 2 shots the bolt opened, the second 2 had to be forced open again. He had marked where the gages stopped the bolt before and after rechecking, there is no change. Lastly, with the bolt stripped, when you pull back on it while opening, there is some kind of snap as the lugs start down the ramps. Same area as when it tightens when trying to open after firing. Really confused. If you have a tight chamber, how do the primers back out? Why is the bolt hard to lift? Can the bolt move rearward or the recvr flex while firing and then come back and tighten against the case somehow? I know this is long, but I'm trying to give you guys everything we see. Thanks in advance for any help. Ron

Your hand work is always top notch, Don. I hope to be half as good someday.

That's great to hear. I'm sure I speak for many - we're all still pulling for her/you.

+1. Have a great 4th everyone.

We got the 55 deg tool from Brownells like Z said. The thread wires will be cheapest at Enco. Probably 20 bucks a set. You'll curse me to death until you get the feel of holding 3 wires spaced correctly and mic over them at the same time. I'll try to sketch up something as I don't know how to post pictures yet. It's not the easiest thing to make and cut internal threads, but if you can build a lathe from the ground up as nice as yours is coming, you'll do fine.

When I get home I'll check the book and try to figure it out. I may be able to help. Being in the threading industry for 20+ years I'll be surprised if even Kuhnhausen has an accurate way of checking an inside thread that any of us could afford. You mentioned LR recvr with SR threads. I am working on a Turk, my first Mauser. The threads were so bad inside, we made a fixture, bored it out and single pointed large ring threads in it. You can move forward quicker by threading a short plug on the lathe with a shoulder big enough to seat against the recvr face but not hit the inner torque shoulder. Maybe .500" from face to shoulder. Thread this until the recvr screws on with a good fit. You can get a cheap set of thread wires to measure the plug. They have instructions. You'll need a 1-2 inch mic to mic over the wires. You do not need to do all the math in the instructions to figure P.D. Just make your mandel to the same measurements. Now if you want to find out if the thread is drunk like mine was, take a light skin cut off the recvr face while fixtured on the mandrel you made. Put the plug back in the lathe and indicate it so the shoulder is running true. Screw the recvr on and see if it touches all the way around with a feeler gage. If it does you're luckier than I. If it's out more than you can live with, mark the plug shoulder & recvr where the gap shows. Unsrew off and face .040" off the shoulder of the plug (1/2 turn of a 12 pitch thread). Screw the recvr back on and see if the gap is in the same place on the plug. If it is, the thread is running on an angle to the center line. If the gap moves 180 degrees like mine the thread has a bad lead and I could not figure out a good way to repair it. Mine had about a .004" gap. Taking about .015" off the P.D. of the plug only lowered it to .003". The barrel thread would have to be very undersize for the shoulders to square themselves. A thread with a drunken lead can fit tight on something, with only 25% contact in spotty areas of the flanks. It's a b!t&h! FYI we did everything with a 55 degree bit. That's why I feel that a caliper type gage that measures inside threads is almost useless. It tells you one thing about one spot. This is alot of crap, I know. I hope it helps and I didn't waste your time telling you things you already know. Ron

I went to another last weekend. My first in a while as I've been working every Saturday. This one had the most good stuff in one room in at least a year. Two Swedes that were sharp. Both Gustavs. One had holes drilled in the rear bridge on an angle across (???) the other was normal. $295.00. One Model 98 1937 in very good shape $275.00 and a 24/47 that was nice except the front tang on the bottom metal was banged up altough fixable $149.00. This was reciever porn compared to the last 5 shows. However, I wussed out due to my wife's recently becoming unemployed. I feel guilty about toys when I'm the only source of income and the mail box is full. I really was sick over the Swede. I have no desire to own a Mauser in original configuration, but I could make an exception for a 96. They are becoming my favorite. There were two rifles built by Keith Stegal in the 70's. IIRC they were pre-64 Winchesters. They were drop dead gorgeous, wood, fit, checkering...etc. $2,000.00 each. And no one was looking at them. Just like you guys said, everyones hanging around the sks-ar looking stuff. To each his own. I think they are uglier than a mud fence.

All the brain power in Washington - phooey! All it took was one German mind & problem solved! This is why we love Mausers so.

Thanks for all the ideas. We're so busy at work (good thing) I haven't been forum reading much. Hodgie, I don't have a clue how to make my own tap and 200 + is not worth a 70.00 recvr. I'll scrap it first. In Cleveland, Turks are 69.95, 47's + 48's are 100 - 150, VZ's are 200 - 250 and German 98's are 300.00. When you deal with threads issues 10 hours a day for a living, fixing recvr thds as a hobby just doesn't cut it. After this, I wouldn't take a boxcar full of Turks for free, delivered. z1r & Albertashtr, the sleeve fixture in the post may be the ticket and that's what we'll try. But trust me, locating the existing threads and cleaning up won't be enough. Best I can measure they are already so torn in the crests, they won't clean up by boring to 1.00". There will be approx .020" deep spiral still left. However it was threaded, the lead speed of the cut was exceeding the lead of the thread. They are like Acme threads in the root. And not consistent in helix. The goal is to bore to lg ring dimensions, thd 1.100 - 12 with a 55 deg bit. Make it standard Mauser. I just need to brush up on internal thd cutting in blind holes. Been a while. Thanks to all for the help. I'll post what happens, but it'll be April sometime. For now, I'm getting ready for a 2 day ISO-9000 audit for re-accreditation of my lab. Lots to do. Ron

Don, Z, The benefit of going lg ring mauser thd is that we made tools for lapping inner torque shldr, bolt face and a spring loaded deal that pushes the bolt while lapping lugs. All fixture by the threads and we made them for lg ring a while ago. I really just wanted to run the idea by the crew in case I was setting myself up for some other headache. This group would know. Milsurp, You ain't lying about making my head hurt. I've thought about this way too long. But even if I was going to use a tap it needs to be bored out first and 2 taps would be needed. I don't think a small ring thd tap is going to straighten this out. It's pretty drunk. The barrel will have to be about .016" smaller than the recvr (pitch dia) to hit the shoulder square. Seems awful sloppy to me, but I'm way more familiar with threading than rifle receivers. I will try to figure out if it is off center though - thanks for the warning.

I'd toss it if I hadn't done so much handwork cleaning it up. Besides I have access to a lathe and other than making the fixture there won't be any money spent. I thought about the Rem thread size. I'm not sure what the minor diameter should be, but I'm close to .992" on my threaded plug so it's at least that big inside. I was more curious about anything I don't know as there has been alot of that with this thing.

Has anyone bored out a Turk thread and re-threaded to large ring threads? I posted about my Turk thread problems in January. Limpid Lizard and a few others chimed in. I believe the threads are too far off to just re-chase. If I have to make the fixtures and all, why not just put large ring threads in? It would probably be easier. Ron

Thanks, Kenny. I didn't mean to wait so long to say thanks, but I can't log on at home. I need to check settings or something on that computer. At work it's just the opposite. If I don't log out, the next time I open, I'm already logged in. Me and computers = oil and water. Who am I kidding, anything electronic!

Monte, here's a sketch that may help. I made this at 1.5 : 1, but I don't know if it will print that way. Either way it's to scale. It's a Turk guard that my brother did the Winchester style button release to. Like Don said a little reshaping is done for better access with the fingertip. The 1/8 thru hole helps to remove from the top with a punch if the pin gets dirty / sticky. The well in the upper section above the bow gets filled so you have some material to work with. I think he got the spring at Sears hardware. I'll try my hand at posting pictures when my wifes camera gets home from spring break with my son. This was all done with a drill press and files. Same with the hinge. The X & Y axis vises will work with a milling cutter in a drill press except they tend to cut oversize. It's tough to justify a mill for what little we do. triggerguard.pdf

My brother has done 2 Mauser guards Winchester style. I believe he sketched out what he did. I had made him a 1:1.5 scale drawing of the bottom metal so he had something to draw his ideas to. If there is enough detail to help, I'll scan and try to post. Like you said he angle drilled for the button which he made on a lathe. The button has a notch on it's side with enough length for travel. Then a .093" roll pin was put through the guard to prevent the button from coming out. I don't remember if he counterbored the back of the button for the spring. I'll talk to him tonight.

Thanks, Flaco. Not trying to hijack here, but is this done for any other reason than cleaning something that got on the wood? Standard preparation step?

What does the oxalic acid do?

I saw a grip cap in a picture on the Campfire Forum once that looked cool. The stock was burl maple and the grip was a contrasting red wood. Not rosewood looking more red like paduk. Anyway the guy cut a radius around the outside edge inwards so it looked like the steel ones they sell in the catalogs. It added a nice touch. I think it would look good in ebony if it had some streaking.

I just realized my e-mail is not accessable. PM me if interested. Ron

I wonder what it would look like if the metal was acid etched first. I've read about "acid striking" before bluing to help prevent purple colors associated with carburized parts. I deal with platers every day but not nickel. I'm guessing your action is or will be carburized. I could etch some carburized parts of ours and send them to you to practice with. I don't know that they would be any duller than the blasted finish you already tried, but it's easy to do on my end if you want to try. However, when something is hardened above say 30 RC and has hydrogen introduced to it (hydrochloric acid), precautions should be taken to prevent or eliminate hydrogen embrittlement. This is a very real cause of catastrophic failure in a stressed item such as a torqued thread. Inhibitors in the acid would help and then baking after neutralizing the etched part. I edited this post afterwards thinking you might try to etch a hardened receiver with hydrochloric. My e-mail is in my file if you're interested. Ron

I purchased a classic stock from them in Myrtle. It was in their bargain section. I paid 100.00 for it and it has a very straight grain pattern, which I like. (It was pictured on the site.) I spoke with Henry who may be the owner, not sure. I asked if it was possible to send along some floor scraps of Myrtle as I had never finished or worked with it before. He sent 4 or 5 large pieces at no extra charge which I thought was more than fair. They also cut for intermediate 98's. I have only bought one other stock, a $350.00 French Walnut one from Fajen 25 years ago. The mill work is smoother on the Fajen, but it was alot more, a long time ago, so there's some value there. I like the extra knobs sticking out of both ends that they left on the Myrtle stock. It will give me something to hold against in my checkering cradle while working the outside. I also read a pretty rough post about Great Am. on another forum. But I also read that Richards and others take forever. I got this stock in about 2 weeks. All in all I would use them again. Long winded, I know. I try to make up for lack of experiences with details. Hope it helps.

Very nice work. Been 10 yrs, huh? Well you didn't lose anything for time, that's for sure.

China, my friends. They are buying copper like crazy. Steel too. We are getting so much for scrap steel now, we keep types separate. What frosts my balls is why don't American companies put some people to work and make more. No it's more lucrative to run low and rape whoever needs it. Just like f&^#*&g oil. Sorry about the rant. Just the 2cents of someone in mfg for 25+ yrs. Well we still mfg here and we hired two people last year and bought 2 more machines! No big wienie, but growth nevertheless.

Gotcha. I have one more question. Assuming it's now too far off, would this set up handle boring out and single pointing to the thread size a large ring Mauser has?

I followed you up until the part about using 2 DTI's. Are DTI's dial test indicators? How did you indicate the end of the mandrel that was in the jaws while the cylinder was in them?