montea6b

Below is how I envisioned doing it. This is the same way that the Chapman two position safety functions, the only original Monty-thought was to notch the aft portion of the plunger to preclude rotation of the shaft and subsequent spring entanglement in the bolt. (I think spring tension takes care of this, but it is an added measure.) I think the plunger could serve as your ball detent in providing positive position stops and friction to keep the lever from flopping around. My sketch pad was wider than a standard 8.5x11, so the right side got cut off. One of the comments was that you'd probably have to add some material to form a mini-lever arm or cam for the full locked position since by my eyeball there may not be enough there. (depending of course on where you position the vertical shaft.)

That's pretty close to how I envisioned doing it. I thought I'd might try using the stock military safety lever, reshaping the existing portion that blocks the cocking piece into a cam shape that would push a spring loaded plunger forward in the existing hole to lock the bolt in the full aft position. I'll try to do a sketch when I get a chance. Nice work on your drawings by the way, you'll be dangerous when you get the CAD program up and running!

Well, that did it. Thanks for the pointer Southpaw! Took a little work though. I went back to the bolt that was binding the worst since that was the one I planned on using originally. The bolt handle is already cut off so I couldn't get much leverage. I started out with gloves and doing a motorcyle throttle twisting motion, but my forearms started to swell like Popeye, so I clamped the bolt in the vice, got a thick leather pad for the shroud, and went at it with some long handled pliers. I had to clean things up, reapply paste and re-work several times before I got it to thread all the way, but it is now slick as glass. It came with instructions Jason, but they don't cover ill fitting parts, only trouble-free installation procedures!

I agree. In fact, that's one of my beefs with the Chapman style. Seems like there's more need to cycle the action while safed than to lock the bolt. Still, that's how Paul designed it, and I think it would be an interesting academic pursuit to attempt it.

I caved in and recently ordered a three position safety, and am having trouble threading it onto the bolts I have. I goes on just fine on a couple thrashed older overpolished and well worn bolts, but the problem occurs on the two nicer ones I had reserved for this project. On one it binds severly and won't go more than a few threads in. On the other, it starts binding with a few threads to go, and stops about 20 degress short of all the way on. I have inspected the threads, both sets, and can see nothing out of the ordinary. Milsurp shrouds fit fine on both these bolts. I have lightly beveled the forward edge (at the end of the threads) to more closely match one of the milsurps, and have lightly filed the thread end at the same edge in case it is bottoming out. It seems to have helped a little, but still won't go on all the way. I am hesitant to remove too much material. Any thoughts or suggestions?

IC1, Very ingenious design! You've inspired me, and I've taken a renewed interest in a couple milsurp shrouds I have laying around. Ironically, I just recently purchased a Dakota three position safety which I had been doing a little contemplative reverse engineering of with the thought of converting the military shroud to a similar configuration. May I assume that yours is a two position? It seems like you'd be able to make a rod/plunger (similar to the chapman style) that would be cammed into position to lock the bolt if one wanted. Just to make sure I understand it, the ball and indent spring are intended to provide some slight resistance and a positive detent in each position?

I had considered trying the same thing actually, thanks for validating this option OD! How did you cut the slot?

Looks like you have to modify the stock for the Charles Daly/Zastava side release. I don't think I want to go there...

Thanks for the photos Jason. How much does the wood protrude past the bottom edge of the magazine on that stock? It looks like you still have some wood to remove to make it flush, but it's hard to tell in that shot. What I don't want to do is to have to notch the stock for the side release button like you did. Maybe just a little, but it would have to be almost imperceptible before I'd consider it.

Very nice Jason, congrats!

I should have posed this question before I ordered, but I recently acquired a commercial hinged triggerguard from Sporter Express and I have to say I'm pretty dissapointed. My specific complaints are that is cast, (with mold marks) it is military contour, (not tapered or slimmed like I'd expect a "commercial" triggerguard to be, and the fit and finish overall is poor. I could slim, recontour, polish and reblue easily enough, but the slop in the hinge pin area is unsatisfactory. Way too much side to side play which adversely affects smooth closure. I'd return it but I took too much time mulling over whether or not it was worth trying to salvage and missed their return policy timeline. Here are the other options I see for a hinged triggerguard: 1. Pete Grisel model. Top notch I'm sure, but $400 + is way out of my league. 2. PAWS aluminum unit from Brownells. Probably a nice unit, reasonable price, but not too keen on the fancy floorplate. If it were an elk or muley I might change my mind, but I live in Washington state where we have no pronghorn antelope and I'm building a .35 Whelen so it just doesn't seem right. 3. Zastava model. These seem like a reasonable, low workload option, but I don't know much about the quality. I don't want to get stuck with another turkey. Also not sure about the side release, (I've never actually used either kind...) but I could deal with it. 4. Argentine 1909. Probably the best option, but they're not always easy to find and are getting pricey. Floorplateless models can be had on occasion, which could be fitted with a straddle floorplate, (I like the custom look of this option...) but still need some work to recontour and could be a hassle finding the little release lever. 5. Make my own per instructions in "Do it yourself gunsmithing" by Jim Carmichael. Quality depends on my effort, which could be significant if done all with hand tools. And I'd like a different release than the lever type. But it would be fun to try and I'd certainly have some pride in showing it off to anybody who could appreciate the effort. Now for a few questions: - Am I missing anything? Any other good sources for a commercial unit or adapting something else? - What are the opinions of the Zastava units? - Any additional thoughts or suggestions?

Very nice! That is exactly the kind of thing I was going to try on my VZ leftover stock. Good work.

Actually, I don't think I have! I have handled several with this type safety and it seemed like a natural enough location to me. I guess I was primarily thinking about disengagement which would undoubtedly be easier... Good point 724wd, thanks for pointing it out. The upward engagement of the Dayton Traister was awkward enough in its own right. The thumb just wasn't meant to operate that way with any degree of strength. P.S. Don't know what happened with the goofy double post... I didn't realize that the first one made it.

My Dayton Traister safety hit the scope when engaged. I changed it out for a Chapman which I now like better anyhow. The "good" rifle will be getting a Dakota. Using the left hand was referenced for using a left side safety... I'd stay away from the left side cheapies for other reasons, but the thumb should curl over to the left side of the pistolgrip where the safety is anyhow, and the older FNs had a good safety that was left mounted, so I wouldn't let awkwardness be your determining factor.

My Dayton Traister safety hit the scope when engaged. I changed it out for a Chapman which I now like better anyhow. The "good" rifle will be getting a Dakota.

Thanks for posting the photos, it's always neat to see how others do things. I like the "immersion pipe" idea. Is it filled with water? Where'd you get the idea for it? I've never seen that kind of set-up before.

I think the best way is to use those steel bars that have been machined down to a pencil point to check out the alignment of your scope rings. I went cheapo on my bubba job because I was using an inexpensive scope that already had a crimp from a previous mount. As such, I was not concerned with marring it, but hoped to ensure internal alignment. (which I may or may not have achieved!) Anyhow, I bought the straightest piece of 1" hardwood dowel I could find and cut it in two. Clamping two different pieces in the respective front and back rings, I tried to discern any height difference or non-alignment with both the naked eye and a straight edge. I looked long and hard from all angles and couldn't see any deviation whatsoever. I butted the ends up against each other and tried running my finger along them to feel for any deviation. I've heard that the human fingertip is capable of feeling extremely small deviations... to test this for yourself, try lining two feeler gauges up next to each other and see if you can feel the difference when running a finger from one to the other. Frankly I was very surprised that I couldn't see anything as I had contoured the action with hand tools and expected to be way off. Now granted this was wood, and not precision finished steel, but I figured that I at least be able to detect any big differences. I'm certain that the machined bars would have revealed some misalignment, but I decided it was good enough for now... I next placed the scope in the rings and snugged it down a bit, removed it, and inspected for any sign of uneven pressure on the outside of the tube. Again everything looked good so I tightened them all the way, and upon reinspection could still see no indication of uneven bearing points on the tube. Probable not a good enough technique for precision work, and I'm not necessarily even recommending it, but that's what I did FWIW.

I like that! It looks "phat"... I have seen this before on custom safari type rifles and never really gave it a thought as to how it was accomplished. I guess with the big cartridges it is needed to bring the magazine capacity up. Practical to be sure, but I like the look too. Makes the rifle look more beefy and tough in my opinion. Terry, where did you get the checkered bolt handle from? I like it, as well as the wood.

Can't see the front ring too good, but you have an idea what the action looks like here. The shiny area at the back of the ring is where the stamp obliterates the year.

Here's a current look:

All right, I thought I was slowly getting smarter, but I guess I'm not. What is a "drop type magazine"? .... I am currentlly inletting the triggerguard on project #2. The other night I turned the stock over to tap the triggerguard out, and it bounced off the workbench and onto the floor. Is that what I now have?

Here's some old shots of what it looked like last December: (not great pictures...) Here's the other side: I've got some fresher photos, but they're still on the camera and I need my laptop to get at 'em. (It's at work) Since these pictures it's been refitted with a Chapman safety, barrel actually torqued on and chambered, fitted with scope, and 95% checkered. I've been building the full story, warts and all, on a web page and when I get it updated I'll load it and post a link.

Took my 30-06 VZ-24 to the range today for it's first firing. Functioned flawlessly. A little dissapointed in the accuracy. Groups about the size of a hand span at 100yds. Plan on bedding the action yet, and I think the right side of the stock forearm may be touching a little. Photos to follow...

Thanks guys, for the well stated opinions. This is the kind of discussion I need to make a proper choice. I think I'll take option #4 above. No metal work on this one, but reshape, refinish, and checker stock, bed action, and possibly fit with a no-drill scope mount. If anybody is interested in the barreled action, shoot me a PM.

OK, given the opinions here plus a little internet research, I've established that it is a 94 carbine, and that it would be wise to preserve what I have. No metal surgery for this one. One other comment/question on collectibility before this decision becomes final: On the front receiver ring below the Carl Gustafs crest, the year (1918 as far as I can discern from the serial number) was ground off and it was stamped "INTERARMCO G33/50". This spot was then reblued in a shinier finish. (I'll try to post a better photo at a later date...) I know this seriously degrades the collectibility, but is it degraded to the point that I can have at it guilt free, or is it still worth preserving? Options as I see them at this point: 1. Unlimited amatuer bubba-smithing as outlined above. 2. Restore to the best of my ability, cobbling together milsurp stock, handguard, and accessories, and then sell or keep as desired. 3. Sell barrelled action to anyone interested in restoring themselves. (sell stock with or without action, or keep stock for another small ring project.) 4. Compromise, a la Clarks photo above. In other words, keep all metal original, but make stock modifications and keep as a iron sighted sporter, or fit with scout scope. This keeps option to resell to an interested collector when the time is right while scratching the itch to tinker with it. Meanwhile, keep eye out on eBay, gunshows, and other sources and attempt to slowly accumulate appropriate parts for restoration later. I am leaning towards the last option right now, but would be interested in hearing what others vote for. Keep in mind that I have no real NEED for this rifle, nor for any additional actions that I could barter a trade for or purchase with the proceeds. It was inherited, and seemed like a worthy candidate for polishing my hack skills on with the possibility of gifting it back to a nephew eventually. If I were to sell it I would give the proceeds back to my mother-in-law as she told me to keep what I wanted out of the collection, and entrusted me with finding good homes for the others. Clark, I'd be interested in more info on the scout scope mount you have pictured above. Is that a no-smithing required mount that affixes to the rear sight? B-Square maybe? Also, what kind of scope? Would any long eye relief scope for pistols work?