montea6b

Great stuff!

Success! I got up early this morning and after a little more tinkering I had it working. I too am concerned about the bolt being fully closed, however, it's about as fully closed as you can get. I think I was a lot closer than I realized when I first posted. I just couldn't understand how such a simple mechanism could kick my butt and wanted to ensure that I hadn't missed something obvious and simple before I ground away too much. I took just a little more off the bolt notch, widening and deepening slightly, but I also looked at it like my recent feeding problem; basically the plunger has to feed into the bolt notch. Taking that attitude, I very lightly beveled and smoothed the "feed rail" of the bolt notch. I also disassembled the safety again and deburred and smoothed the end of the plunger. That was all it took.

Hmmm... NO! Sorry for the mug shot quality of the photos. With the exception of the tailgate shot, these are my insurance/inventory pictures and were quickest and easiest to post. The Sharps is a hand me down from my father, who got it from his father when he passed away before I was born. No telling how long it had been in the family before that, but as my dad's side originally settled in South Dakota in the late 1800s, it could have been a while, and was very likely a bison provider for my ancestors. Pa had it reblued in the early sixties when it was just a rusty old relic, so collectible value ain't great, (which is immaterial since I'll never sell it) but it sure looks nice. It's a 44-77 and I've been meaning for years to get some dies and load for it since WalMart doesn't exactly carry that caliber. The obsolete dies are a little spendy though, and I've been busy with other projects. I've written a little about the Springfield before, but it's a circa 1935 National Match and was a gift from my father in law in sporterized wrapping. I've since restored it. I have another straight stock service grade 1903 which I'd like to clean up a bit.

Got it, thanks. On another note, I reassembled the entire bolt and with it out of the receiver, but with the sleeve rotated to firing position, I was able to push the cocking piece back and engage the safety. That tells me that the problem is one of alignment when the bolt is closed in the action. Yet the Mauser won't fire unless the bolt is locked up in battery. Unless it's just close enough I guess. I then tried taking just a little more out of the bolt notch on the right side where the plunger would hit if the bolt were under rotated by a bit and I can feel that is where I need to work as it starts to engage. (Had to knock things off for a kids Halloween party, so couldn't continue. Sometimes breaks like that are good as they give an opportunity for a question like this, and a fresh look when you start up again...) Now, however, I have another question and concern: Should I take a little more metal off the receiver under the bolt handle so it will close that extra hair? Any concerns here?

Per FC's request, here are a few of mine: http://home.earthlink.net/~montea6b/images/Range2.jpg http://home.earthlink.net/~montea6b/images/Revolvers.JPG http://home.earthlink.net/~montea6b/images/DVC00389.JPG http://home.earthlink.net/~montea6b/images/DVC00390.JPG http://home.earthlink.net/~montea6b/images/DVC00393.JPG Hope to have some photos and a range report on Project #1 soon!

Tried putting the scope on today and found that my Dayton Traister safety hits the scope with the low rings I bought. I don't really want to go higher, so decided to try to fit the Chapman safety and shroud that I had laying around for another project. I started slowly this time after ruining a cocking piece the last time I did this. I took just a little metal off the cocking piece, trying frequent fittings, and when it visually looked that it should clear yet still wouldn't engage, (it actually didn't even look like it was trying to push the cocking piece back...) I decided that it must be the plunger part that engages the half moon slot at twelve o'clock on the bolt body. I then carfully smoothed and ever so slightly enlarged this slot with a small dremel stone. When that still didn't work, I decided to try them individually. Putting the shroud on by itself, I discovered that the plunger would engage into the slot in the bolt body just fine. Indeed there was a fair amount of side to side play in it. Enough so that it is quite obvious that the slot on the bolt body is not undersized and does not need more material removed. Removing the screw that holds the lever in place, I took the spring and plunger out of the hole that leads to the bolt body and reassembled. This confirmed that I had removed enough metal from the forward edge of the cocking piece as it worked perfectly, camming the striker assembly aft just like it should. I would actually be perfectly happy with this configuration, as I see no need for a safety to lock the bolt in position, but the internal spring also apparently serves a function returning the safety to full forward "fire" position. I realized this because the lever had more play in it, and as I searched for potential failure modes I discovered with the safety off, (in fire) that the lever could wiggle backwards under gravity if the rifle was tipped up to the point. It would come back far enough that the first part of it that makes contact would partially protrude into the path of the cocking piece. If the trigger was pulled with this partial obsuration, the cocking piece would fall forward onto the safety lever, and if the safety was moved forward from there, the striker assemble would fire. Not good. So, I guess I need the spring and plunger part of it to hold the safety lever all the way forward when disengaged. I just can't seem to figure out where the engaging resistance is. It's not even really resistance per se, it flat out won't budge. I don't want to just keep on grinding more metal. It seems that the only real possibility is that the plunger in the shroud does not line up with the slot in the bolt, but at least to my eyes it appears lined up. Any suggestions on how to check this with everything assembled? Anything else that might be binding?

Well, a little light smoothing of the edge was all it took. It's slick and flawless now, thanks for the help! Stand by for an eventual range report...

We call this doggie Almond Roca.

Thanks guys, that confirms what I thought I'd have to do. Jason, thanks for the suggestion about the follower. I hadn't considered this, but had wondered if a stiffer magazine spring might force the cartridges up into alignment quicker. The only aftermarket followers I've seen have been for single shot benchresters if I remember correctly. Is there another type I should look for? I'll try chamfering the rim of the chamber first, then order a new spring if that is unsatisfactory. If that still doesn't do the trick I may try some very careful surgery around the front lip of the feed rails. Or maybe take it to an expert...

Well, I finally got 'er done this afternoon and reamed my first chamber. (In between periodic breaks to watch my Seahawks achieve a spectacular last second victory!) Anyhow, it went pretty well for the most part. Lesson learned: The reamer can cut either very slowly, or very quickly. It depends on how much pressure you put on it. As stated above, I started with the receiver off, and would drop in a Go gauge every time I cleaned the reamer off to measure progress with the depth end of my dial calipers. To clean the chamber I used a can of WD-40 with the little straw to essentially flood and rinse all the chips out, with everything dripping on a towel I'd laid on the floor. Things were going slowly at first, and each time I measured there wasn't much apparent change. I had about .4xx to go so I started increasing the force a bit. The next time I took the reamer out and checked, the Go gauge suddenly dropped WAY in. I had calculated that the gauge needed to protrude by .118, and held my breath as I measured it at .17. So far so good, time to mount the barrel. I cinched it down good and snug and stamped an index mark on the underside just in case it should ever need to come back off. I then got out the extensions and bolt, and continued. Once again things were progressing somewhat slowly, so I increased the force a little. I was going slowly and checking frequently, hoping to achieve a nice tight chamber, yet suddenly on the next check the go gauge was just swallowed up! Oh oh... Once again I crossed my fingers and hoped for the best as I got out the "No Go" gauge. Thankfully it would not chamber, although it is closer than I had hoped. The bolt will stop about 10-20 degress of arc short of closing. Not exactly match quality, but I have to assume that it is at least safe. (?!) Now for the feeding problem... I then assembled the rifle to check for function. Since I don't have a way to load dummy cartridges, I decided to remove the firing pin assembly and very carefully attempted to chamber a few live rounds... with very dissapointing results. I can't get it to feed. At all. It's not just a little rough around the edges, it sucks! I'm pissed! The cartridges go forward about 1.5 inches and just jam. I tried to feed from both sides of the magazine with the same results. It is hanging up where the bullet enters the chamber. It's catching on the shoulder of the chamber just back of the tip a ways. Now I'm starting to see the wisdom of Winchester's "Coned Breech". I didn't mention it this post, but it's a .30-06 and these particular rounds were factory standard 150 gr spitzers. Nothing in the bullet length or seating depth that should cause problems. With careful fiddling, I could occasionally milk one in past the bullet ogive, only to apparently have the lip on the neck of the case also hang up. Even if I successfully eased one past this point the edge of the chamber would shave brass off. I feel like I need to de-burr or lightly bevel the edge of the chamber. Would this help? Should I open up the feedrails a little to keep the cartridge from trying to enter the chamber from such a sharp angle? I figured that such a standard cartridge would have no problems. Heck, I even tried chambering an 8mm Mauser, (which this action was originally chambered in) just to check and had similar, if not quite as bad results. I'm a little disappointed and frustrated at this point, and I'm not sure what to do next. Help!

Absolutely hilarious, that was the funniest thing I've seen in a while! "Do you need help little man?"... "Yeah, how about getting me a hunk of cheese!"

Gosh, I hope I didn't just incite a bidding war amongst my virtual friends!

$450-ish for the cheapest model. Here's a link: http://www.legacysports.com/product/index.htm It didn't sell and has been re-listed. Here's a fresh link: http://www.auctionarms.com/Search/DisplayI...ItemNum=7013710 I like the looks of the one in the auction better than the ones on legacy's website, the bolt handle in particular. Good luck if you want it!

I got an answer back from Legacy Sports, they're made by "Global Trading Company" in Italy. The name sounds more like an exporter than an actual firearms manufacturer, but since the answer came by message I didn't get a chance to ask more detailed questions. Italy... Hmmm, maybe Pedersoli? I'm trying to think who would actually turn out such an action and I know they do a lot of Sharps and other replicas. They look and sound to be pretty nice actions and the price isn't bad when you add up the cost of each individual item; New commercial receiver, complete bolt, hinged floorplate, three position safety, etc. (Resist... Monty, resist!)

I'm in the final stages of apprenticeship project #1, but already accumulating parts for my next try. My lessons in trying to make do without a checkering cradle have lead me to seek out stockmaking screws for my next inletting job. I have seen two types, and was wondering if I need both to do a proper job. Type 1. "Inletting guide screws". These are the headless ones that screw into the receiver allowing it to slide into the stock and triggerguard holes from the top which gives you quick and easy alignment for 'in and out' test fitting. Type 2. "Stockmakers screws". These are the T-handled ones that go into the receiver from the bottom and allow for quick tightening without tools. Is type 1 typically used early on, then switched to type 2 for cinching things down and final fitting? Anybody have preferences or techniques as to when it is most benificial to use each type? Should I get both, or can I get by with one or the other? (I can "get by" with neither, but would prefer to do it right this time...) Just wondering what others do.

I remember that now! Seems to me you even posted a photo of the contraption once. You should repost the technique with a photo on the tech tips page. Thanks for the idea again, but I think I'll skip for now as that will delay the process for at least another month or two while I construct it!

Thanks Z, that's what I was picturing, but I always assumed they were specifically for wood checkering. I guess they work good on metal though... (?)

Is that what they call a "riffler"? (or something like that...)

My biggest problem is that if I check "chewing the cud" I get sucked in. Time as we know it becomes meaningless. The next thing I know is that I have three days worth of whiskers, I'm ravenous, and the phone message light is blinking from loved ones wondering if I'm still alive. That said, I like reading the spirited banter, although I do confess to mild dissapointment at the slow pace of my favorite - "sporterizing weapons". That was the one that got me here in the first place and it's where I always check first. (and sometimes the only one I check.) We need FM Sniper to get back to posting daily photo updates of his weekly completed projects to fire things up. But I also believe that you can't force the issue. Things will happen at their own pace and in their own way. Newcomers will very likely shift some of the focus back to our core hobby with questions, tips, and project photos. Some of the old timers will undoubtedly tire of rehashing the some old subjects, but they will, and others will chime in, and life will go on... I like this place. I too feel like I have made some "faceless friends". (Although I know what Fritz looks like in a sombrero!) It would be fun to have a big old picnic and get to meet every one in person.

Very nice! Now I need to get off my duff...

Well, still haven't started to make any chips yet, but I got everything out and started setting up. (I have to whittle away at projects like this in small chunks of available time!) I measured everything carefully, drew a sketch, then checked and rechecked my math. I also hand tightened the barrel and tried to chamber a go gauge to measure on the bolt how far I needed to ream as a final common sense check of my work before I start removing metal. (I've made enought mistakes in my time that I've learned it's worth the extra effort...) After all that I've determined that without a good micrometer I don't trust myself to get it reamed to the proper depth before screwing the barrel on. I tried multiple measurments with a good dial caliper and as careful as I was I still got variations plus or minus >.002. Not close enough to allow for a crush fit. So, I think I will start reaming with the barrel off for the best control, and once it is within approx .01 or so, mount the barrel and finish it off using the headspace gauge for final depth measurement. Maybe tonight? (kids have Scottish Highland dance lessons...)

I was at the hardware store yesterday looking for something else and noticed that they had a file for chasing boogered threads on screws. It was a neat four sided file, divided in half so that there were a total of eight file surfaces for different pitch threads. Anyhow, I got to wondering whether or not such a file would work for checkering metal. I'd like to try checkering a bolt handle knob or bolt release. Has anybody ever tried one of these, or are they too rough for decent results? The price was a lot better than a metal checkering file from Brownells. I know that some people have gotten decent results from using needle files, but the small stuff I've tried with them looks like garbage. Maybe it's just the cheap files I have...

Thanks to all, good advice. I'll let you know how it goes.

I've seen two techniques espoused for this procedure, and was wondering if there were any pros or cons to either or whether it was simply a matter of personal preference. method 1: Install barrel on action and use an extension to ream chamber, checking depth frequently with headspace gauge in bolt. method 2: Measure distance from bolt face to front of receiver ring, subtract the distance from shoulder to barrel shank, then ream unmounted barrel until gauge protrudes by this amount. (final test is obviously to try to chamber appropriate gauges...) Thoughts anyone?

This is the one that really got my eye: http://www.auctionarms.com/Search/DisplayI...ItemNum=6984071 I like that bolt handle in particular! I have been meaning to call the company all week to ask who makes them, but have been too busy. I'll post an answer if I ever talk to them.