.325 WSM

[Guest DEVO]

Question to all. Wolud it be easy to convert a stock 8mm VZ-24 to the .325WSM round? I have modified/sporterized one of my VZ-24s a-la-FMSNIPER.

I understand that I need to open the bolt face abit, but does anyone feel the feeding of this round may make this conversion a pain in the azz?

 

Thank you all in advance.

[roscoedoh]

Devo,

 

Search back a few pages. Brad just did a rifle or two in this cartridge. He answers just about all the questions you have and then some. Pictures are included.

 

Jason

[gunnutty]

Question to all. Wolud it be easy to convert a stock 8mm VZ-24 to the .325WSM round? I have modified/sporterized one of my VZ-24s a-la-FMSNIPER.

I understand that I need to open the bolt face abit, but does anyone feel the feeding of this round may make this conversion a pain in the azz?

 

Thank you all in advance.

8069[/snapback]

 

If it's an original military barrel, you'll have to set the barrel back 0.150 inches plus to clean out the old chamber. I don't know that there's much of a shoulder to seat against the face of the receiver after that.

 

There was a great discussion here a couple of weeks ago about all the work that it needed just to get the short magnums to eject from the Mauser.

 

If you want to use the original barrel, I'd look at longer cases that will clean out the chamber without setting back the barrel: 8MM '06, 8X68, 8MM '06 AI, 8MM Gibbs.

 

If it's a new modern barrel and you want 325 WSM, be prepared to do some work.

[z1r]

I'd instead opt for the 8mm-06 with similar ballistics and much less work.

 

As for cleaning up the chamber and setting back the barrel, note that you seat the barrel against the inner "c" ring not the receiver face.

 

You asked if it would be a pain, I say a royal one.

[gunnutty]

I'd instead opt for the 8mm-06 with similar ballistics and much less work.

 

As for cleaning up the chamber and setting back the barrel, note that you seat the barrel against the inner "c" ring not the receiver face.

 

You asked if it would be a pain, I say a royal one.

8082[/snapback]

 

Actually, good point on the "C" ring.

 

Now another question, as I have never seen this; if the '98 barrel seats on the "C" ring rather than on the barrel face, would it be permissible to have NO shoulder on the barrel?

[Guest DEVO]

8mm-06AI, sounds like the most resonable to get close to a 3000fps speed. Is there a website that has the ballitics of this round? My undstanding is that a AI round can take 10% more than a NON-AI round of the same calibre. Is that true?

 

Hey want to thank everyone that took the time to help me out.

[gunnutty]

8mm-06AI, sounds like the most resonable to get close to a 3000fps speed. Is there a website that has the ballitics of this round? My undstanding is that a AI round can take 10% more than a NON-AI round of the same calibre. Is that true?

 

Hey want to thank everyone that took the time to help me out.

8088[/snapback]

 

I have the Ackley books but consider the loads listed as unsafe.

 

There's another thread going about the .30 Gibbs. The book I have (modern) lists the 8MM Gibbs. It has a little bit more capacity that the AI. Max speeds for the 8MM Gibbs from a 26" barrel are:

 

150 gr 3346

170 gr 3202

200 gr 2913

220 gr 2797

 

back down a grain of powder, move to a 24" barrel, and you might lose 75 to 100fps. That's what I have.

 

[z1r]

Actually, good point on the "C" ring.

 

Now another question, as I have never seen this; if the '98 barrel seats on the "C" ring rather than on the barrel face, would it be permissible to have NO shoulder on the barrel?

8085[/snapback]

 

 

Yes,

 

I have a barrel like that. Truthfully, the outer shoulder is more of an aesthetic thing. We're used to seeing them. In practice, many people think these shoulders need to be torqued. In reality it is impossible to get two parallel surfaces torqued to the same degree. I cut mine so that it is about .002" long so that when torqued doenit just kisses the receiver. Looks like there is no gap.

 

here's a neat article: http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/arti...d=77&tocid=1078

 

As to the AI. Assuming you get 10% more powder capacity divide that by 4 and you get 2.5% increase in muzzle velocity. I think you are lucky to get 75 fps over the standard version. Aside from the .257 AI, I'm not really an AI fan. Too much work for so little gain IMO. But you go with what floats your boat.

 

Have you considered the 8x68? It does require some bolt face, feed ramp, and rail work but it just slightly less powerful than the 8mm Rem Mag. best of all, it fits a standard length Mauser action.

[gunnutty]

[roscoedoh]

gunnutty,

 

Was there ever any work done to determine what pressures the Gibbs cartridges generated? I don't doubt for a second that Mr. Gibbs could get those kinds of velocities, but my initial thought is that the pressures those cartridges were loaded too must surely be significantly higher than the standard 8x57 or 30-06?

 

Thanks,

 

Jason

[gunnutty]

This is not Gibbs' data. It's Wolfe Publishing, I believe Roger Stowers. The book was printed in 1991, and he notes specifically about watching for pressure signs. These are listed as MAX. Also note the 26" barrel used in testing. I just put the data here as a reference.

 

I'd say the pressures run in the "heavy" '06 range, or modern magnum cartidges. I look for the same pressure signs on a Gibbs as I would an '06 when handloading for a bolt actioned rifle. I can exceed factory velocities for an '06 virtually every time with handloads; I would definitely say I could do this 100% of the time with 8MM loads. I'm matching a specific load to my particular rifle, resized to my chamber and using components of my choosing.

 

Velocity for a given caliber is pretty much a function of case volume. You can make the case short and fat, long and skinney, or put a belt or flange on the thing. The reality is that for a given barrel measured from the case mouth to the end of the barrel, for a given caliber and pressure, velocities should be identical. An improved 8MM-'06 should outperform an 8MM-'06 by approx. 75 to 100fps.

 

I will of course use the dirty Economics phrase "All things being equal". Some barrels are "fast", allowing incredible velocities. Others drag, never meeting or exceeding anyone's expectations. I'd say the 8MM barrel used to gather the 8MM Gibbs data may have been fast. I know other Gibbs data from this book was on par with what I experienced.

[z1r]

I've found a better indicator of expected velocities to be calculating the increase in case volume in % and dividing that by 4 to get the % velocity increase all things being equal.

 

In this case asuming a starting velocity of 3000 fps and a 10% increase that equates to 75 fps more. About what one can expect from a .30-06 150 grainer and the same weight in the 30-06AI.

 

Still, these new numbers are certainly more realistic than those claims Gibbs made. I still think those velocities come as a result of higher pressures even factoring in the longer barrel.

[BradD]

Hi Devo,

 

If you haven't done so yet, look back in this category a ways. There is two rather lengthy postings I did about a 325WSM conversion on a standard length 98 (I used two FN commercials). One posting was done for me as a favor by Jason (Roscoedoh) since I couldn't get any pictures up. It has pics and an abbreviated narrative. The other posting is a rather lengthy narrative.

 

Bottom line: wellll, yes it is doable, but not worth it. Go buy a Model 70 and be money ahead and grief behind.

 

Also, other good words of wisdom from z1r. The 338/06 AI looks pretty good on paper, but it also is a colossal nuisance, from case forming to case annealing to some feeding problems and they are very fussy about bullet seating. I have one which I completed three years ago and I'm still screwing around with it. The reloading dies are breathtakingly expensive and almost impossible to find (although I do have an extra brand new set I would sell you at the price I paid for them if you think you REALLY have to do it).

 

I have also found with these Ackley's that I am losing one round capacity in the magazines, due to the increased shoulder diameter. So take a long hard look at the data. Is the difference really worth it? The standard 338/06 (aka 338/06 A Square) is very friendly to reload and both commercial brass and commercial ammo is available for it.

 

If you're just playing, go ahead, have fun (and spend mucho money). If you're going hunting, do the standard 338/06.

 

You can get a lot of loading data for the AI's at www.huntingnut.com. It is all anecdotal so follow with caution. Another good resource for a lot of AI loads is "Nick Harvey's Practical Reloading Manual". I can't remember where I got mine, but I think it was Amazon.com. Otherwise do a search.

 

Good luck,

Brad

[z1r]

Brad,

 

That is one of the better posts I have read in a long while!

 

Thanks!

[Guest Guest]

I'll check them out Brad.

[BradD]

I'm not quite sure how I got off on to .338's (I must have been up past my bedtime), but of the five AI's I've done they all had the same annoying problems.

 

Life is too short for that. You could be out hunting.

 

B

[z1r]

Here's a similar thread on the merits, or lack thereof, of the AI's. 338-06AI