roscoedoh Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Gentlemen, 90% of my welding experience thus far in life has been with Lincoln arc welders and Miller MIG welders. I just changed jobs and since I may have slightly more income for things I want rather than need soon, I am looking ahead to future tool purchases that I will be able to use from now on. Though I have welded with oxy/act rigs before, I do not know anything about them. For someone like me that plans to weld small things like bolt handles, magazine boxes, and other little dirt dauber welding jobs, oxy/act makes a lot of sense. I have access to a Lincoln AC/DC crackerbox if I need to do any large stuff. However, I do not know enough about them to know what I want. I plan to budget $250 for a good starter kit and possibly the bottles/fuel. I may raise this budget as I haven't priced the fuel lately. Since I know many of you are welders or have a good deal more experience than I do, what should I look for? What brands are good and have parts available? What may I expect to pay for the two small bottles of oxygen and acetelyne? What are the costs? And lastly, what size tips should I look for to do gunsmithing and magazine thickness sheetmetal work with? Thanks for your time, Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Jason, I wish I could help you out and have you stay within your budget, but I will try anyway. If you plan to do cutting operations, you need to have the oxy/acetylene torch. If you plan to weld a lot of small parts, tig is the way to go. If you can't afford a tig machine now (and I must first say to you to go down to your local welding supply company and price them, and then tell them what you plan to do). I can tell you this--they won't fit into your budget. So, back to square one (how to weld small parts without tig). You can weld them with the oxy/acetylene setup using small tips, or you can use the smallest coated rod available (1/16) and use the ac/dc welder you have acess to. Use dc since it is easier to control the weld and results are better. You can ask the welding supply store about adding a high frequency unit to the ac crackerbox, but they will probably tell you to forget it and buy a regular tig machine. BTW, the tig machine only needs an argon bottle and not oxy or acetylene. But you can't cut with tig. The best thing (if you have a limited budget) is this---for cutting, get a small oxy and small acetylene bottle. These will not be cheap, but are necessary if you are serious about cutting metals. Then the torch and tips. I use Smith, but the pros like Victor. There must be a TSC store near you, and they sell the Harris torch kit. It's cheaper. The technique with tig is the same as with oxy/acetylene welding, and it takes a lot of practice. And without the high frequency of the real tig machine, trying to convert a crackerbox machine to tig is going to be real frustrating (scratch to start instead of arc start before touching the work). You can weld some small parts with the machine you have acess to if you are good at arc welding. But it won't be as smooth as the tungsten inert gas method. There will, no doubt be those who will state that many gunsmiths never used anything but oxy/acetylene for welding their guns. But that was after a lot of practice at it. Hell, I guess I'm trying to say there just ain't any easy way to do it without practice. Do it the way you have the most experience at. fritz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racepres Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 I have to agree that in this instance money probably does buy happiness... Don't loose sight of the fact that any "buzz box" will cut very nicely indeed, it's just hard on the rod supply. I like what fritz said abt the small rod and the buzz box, it does a fair job. If you have an ac machine now,, don't forget abt. the carbon arch torch, I hate 'em, but some folks are darn good w/ em. Personally I much prefer a good oxyacetelene [sp] torch set with a welding handle [i like the smallest ones cause they are not so unweildy], as well as having a good ole buzz box. But I'm just a poor dumb [old] farm boy. MV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doble Troble Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Jason, I got a used Smith torch complete with small, medium and large tips and hose on EBay. If memory serves it was all less than $100. I bought the smallest O2 and acetylene tanks that the local supply offered. I don't remember where I got the striker and essential goggles. The hardest thing for me to learn was how to create a neutral flame. Too heavy on the acetylene and the parts will be hardened an unfileable. Too much O2 and its hard to weld and if you do succeed its weak. It did take some practice, but I'm feeling pretty confident now. I figure I'm in to this for about 2 yrs now. I actually use it more for heating stuff up and hardening parts than welding. Just this weekend it saw duty melting down a chunk of lead that was too big for the pot - very handy. It is a very useful piece of equipment for many things. I do recommend OA - its versitle which is just what a young man needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest_claytonfaulkner_* Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 victor is all ive ever used and they seem to be good to me, but ive only been around welding and torches for about 6 months... but its been 5 days a week for 6 months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 and i beleave sears will finance miller and lincoln welders so you really might want to look into getting a tig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest_MorgansBoss_* Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 There are guys here with a lot more knowledge on welding than me but since you asked for input... I have an oxy/Acet outfit, don't know the brand as it came from an estate sale, but it is a quality little job with all the attachments and acessories. Gas isn't all that expensive but the oxygen always seem to run out first. I upgraded to the larger size Acetylene tank simply because I already have two presto-lite units I use for soldering and they use the bigger tanks - 15lb. I think. I've done a lot of work that'd been better suited for tig but I don't have one and its not always convenient to use my buddy's so I do what I have to. Today I used the torch to replace the end of the top tang and the front of the trigger plate on an antique shotgun being restored. These were pretty small and delicate parts but the finished product looks good as new except for the engraving that was lost. The real plus to a torch is that you can't use an electric machine to heat, bend, braze and silver solder! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave h Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Over here we have a company CIG that sells complete Oxy /Acete kits of various sizes .WE can hire the bottles from several differant companies Try http://www.cigweld.com.au this may help answer a few queries Ps: we call em Gas axes over here as a nickname Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest_horsefly_* Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 dave h,flaming hacksaws here in Texas.Jason,there was a guy at work selling one of the small Victor cutting rigs that has the small bottles that fit in a carrying case,like plumbers use.I'll see if he still has it.After many years of welding,Victor is my first choise,Smith is next,and I have a Harris somewhere that never worked worth a crap new out of the box.If could find it,I'll mail it to you,but haven't seen it in years.Oh ya,Victor just moved to Mexico,so Smith maybe number 1 soon in sales.Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indian Creek 1 Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Though I have welded with oxy/act rigs before, I do not know anything about them. For someone like me that plans to weld small things like bolt handles, magazine boxes, and other little dirt dauber welding jobs, oxy/act makes a lot of sense. I have access to a Lincoln AC/DC crackerbox if I need to do any large stuff. If you have access to an AC/DC cracker box you can get a dry TIG rig and a small bottle of argon and use it with the cracker box set on DC. That is the rig I use and it works great for gunsmithing . You do not need high frequency except for aluminum. A.J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 "You do not need high frequency except for aluminum." I disagree. Especially if you work on very small parts. Without the high frequency you will need to scratch the tungsten to the work piece (or the part it is resting on) before the arc starts. With high frequency the arc starts by simply moving the tungsten close to the work. If you have small parts all aligned and ready to bond, and then you accidentally move them out of alignment by the scratch technique necessary without high frequency, they may get out of place and you are back to square one. Trust me, I've been in this business since 1963, and tig without high frequency is going to be frustrating. Sure, you need it for aluminum. And you can do fine on larger parts of ferrous metal without high frequency, But when the parts become small (like reworking a Mauser extractor to accept the small 7.62x39mm) you need all the help you can get. Just my two cents (as they say). fritz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indian Creek 1 Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 "You do not need high frequency except for aluminum." I disagree. Especially if you work on very small parts. Without the high frequency you will need to scratch the tungsten to the work piece (or the part it is resting on) before the arc starts. With high frequency the arc starts by simply moving the tungsten close to the work. If you have small parts all aligned and ready to bond, and then you accidentally move them out of alignment by the scratch technique necessary without high frerquency, they may get out of place and you are back to square one. Trust me, I've been in this business since 1963, and tig without high frequency is going to be frustrating. Sure, you need it for aluminum. And you can do fine on larger parts of ferrous metal without high frequency, But when the parts become small (like reworking a Mauser extractor to accept the small 7.62x39mm) you need all the help you can get. Just my two cents (as they say). fritz Well Fritz it seems like we both have been in the trade for a long time(I started welding in 1958) and I agree that for someone who has not had a lot of experience it may be frustrating but that is the rig I use and have no problems. It is certainly less expensive and with practice can be no more problem than high frequency rigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clark Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 I went into a welding store and bought somone an Oxy acetalene set up so we could bend Turk bolts. I loaned the money and wrote down a loan agreement. Here is part of that agreement: $480.56 on January 4, 2000. The loan is to cost 7.5% per year compounded monthly plus full reimbursement. The loan is for the cost of an oxy acetylene welding setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedestal Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 Don't fool with any equipment other than Victor or Smith, with Victor preferred. The cheap stuff on Ebay, etc. is not worth fooling with. Expect to pay about $250 for small tanks (ox/atc), and about $250 for a beginning Victor kit (new). Of course, used prices can beat that by a considerable amount, if you get lucky. If you decide on a MIG, do NOT expect to use one of the gasless, flux core wire for gun work. (They are not bad for general repair work, though.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z1r Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 I agree on the Victor setup. You can get parts anywhere. Besides, you pay for it once and use it forever. unlike some of the cheaper brands which you will end up replacing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Victor is my no.1 choice too,until I see the new stuff that comes from the Mexico plant,and Smith is ok,but don't waste your money on Harris.Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toney Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Atwoods home and gardern store here has the victor firepower sets for around $250, bottles and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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