karlunity Posted April 2, 2006 Report Share Posted April 2, 2006 I went to a seminar again!!! Now this is NOT my fault. My boss loves to send us to these things" professional growth" ! Anyway, this was on American History and one of the topics was "Columbus hero or villain"? Now every other word was "native American". Now a native is a person that was born in a place..so I, Karl am a native American. HOW!! I told them if they did not understand the use of English, I would send them to special ed. I was told, sternly, that one could not use the word "Indian" and this by a paleface. I asked than, where the expression "native American" came from...did they ask a "native American"? "No..as WE all know, the "I" word is racist." "Who said so?" I asked? "IT IS CLEAR" was the response...I pointed out that one of my friends (Emul8) prefered "wagon burner" . They refused to take any more of my questions!!! Now I know that "names ouside the family" can annoy..I don't care for the use of "JarHead" by non Marines. so I ask Emul 8..what do Indians think is proper? Karl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistJG26 Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 How about calling them by their tribe? Navajo, Sioux ect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 While we await the position of Emul8, let me say that my people who came from Germany were treated badly when WW1 broke out. Hell, they were here before the spat began (and they weren't "guest workers") they were citizens. But that's another subject. We were treated like the enemy, only because of our last name. We were farmers, and we produced the goods needed for the troops in the War. We named our community "Germantown" because Germany is where the people came from to establish it. Under threat, like the negroes had with the KKK, we renamed our community "Schroeder" in honor of the first local boy killed in France in that War. That simple thing (albeit the result of pressure) let us live in a bit more harmony with the rest of the country. I don't know what Emul8 will have to say about the people who were here even before we were, but I can guess her people have more experience in this than mine. fritz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimro Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Karl, depends on the Indian/Native American/Indigenous Person/Aboriginal People that you happen to ask. Most of them I knew didn't worry about the term "Indian" unless it was said in a disrespectful tone. Of course I don't go around calling people "whitey" either, but maybe we should start a trend? Jimro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc0332 Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 In boot camp I innocently asked a question, that resulted in many pushups. We were told that we are no longer white or black. We are now light green and dark green. I asked something to the effect that what do we refer to the shades between light and dark. My 2 hispanic DI's took turns wearing me out. I was not being a smart alec, but I had been awake for about 2 days straight. I never did get an answer. I am from small town Minnestoa. This was a place where we would all have been referred to as light greens. I had next to zero exposure to diversity. My determination is that that some people like to be offended, and some like to offend. I fell in the group of those that prefer neither. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emul8 Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Hey karlunity! Wow, that whole thing about the seminar people refusing to take any more of your questions was a total crack-up! While I hesitate to speak for the entirety of all tribal nations, I will tell you that amongst ourselves, most "native Americans" refer to ourselves, simply as "Indians". It's just easier. That whole native American thing has been a complete bust because white people got their noses out of joint around that. The term "Indigenous American" isn't really appropriate because we're not really indigenous either. The term Aboriginal, meaning, of course "from the original", goes right along with the term "indigenous". Besides, the Australian aborigines ripped that one off, which I guess is what happens when your people go back a verifiable 40,000 years...you can actually almost really mean that you are "from the original". Indians too have a number of terms that we jokingly refer to each other as, aside from the generic "Indian". Most of them I wouldn't use here because, like the term that karlunity used as another colloquialism for Marine, Indians don't really appreciate the use of those phrases by others/outsiders. Like Jimro said, it's often all about the tone in which a term is expressed...even my favorite phrase "wagon burner", said by different people could cause me to either laugh or get all riled up depending on how I took it, depending on how it was delivered. I think that the only real way that using a tribal reference would work is if everyone knows the tribal affiliation of the person. And there isn't always just one tribe either. I personally have the blood of three tribes, two of which I will "claim" readily, but only one of which I am an enrolled member. Indians can be as touchy about their lineage as the huffiest blueblood, so, I am pretty sure that wouldn't work...someone is bound to get things wrong. Aside from that, there are literally hundreds of tribes still here in the U. S., and while to an educated eye, there are ways to distinguish one tribe from another in their traditional dress, in the modern world I don't think that most people, Indians included can tell a Ponca from a Pawnee without some effort. So, basically we all know that the term "American Indian" is a misnomer...hence the attempts of the past for us to adopt the use of the incredibly ugly and oh-so-goofy "Amerind", which went over like a quiver of lead arrows. I also have to suppose that there could be some problems with interpretation are far as Indian immigrants from the actual sub-continent of India are concerned where the term "American Indian" is concerned, but let's get real, we all know what we're talking about, right? Furthermore, the "I" word isn't any more racist than the "E(uropean)" word, or the "A(merican)" word, when you think about it. And to anyone who suggests that it is, I have to ask "Who died and left you in charge of my destiny? My identity? My heritage?" It is as presumptuous for someone white to tell me that the "I" word is racist to me as it is for me to tell that someone that the "C(aucasian)" word is racist to them. They are just handy cultural identifiers, that's all. For me, the bottom line can be most personally summed up by a discussion that I once had with an attorney from the Bureau of Indian Affairs when they were trying to finesse a deal where a person leasing some of my land in Oklahoma could just be "overlooked" instead of being charged when he wasn't grazing his cattle there. The BIA mouthpiece was trying to pull his fast one by going into quick patter mode, and he was asking me if I preferred to be called an Oklahoman (apparently because I was born there) or a Californian (because I reside here). I considered what he was saying for a moment, and I finally got irritated and said "Look, I don't give a f*** what you call me, just stop trying to steal my f***ing land, OK?" And that's all I've got to say about all that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 My Grandma called other Indians,Indian.The word was one she used and I know she wasn't offened at all by it.Now,you call her a Mexican,and your soul won't make it to the after life.Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest karl Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Thanks folks. It was most kind of you to help. Karl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doble Troble Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 "Look, I don't give a f*** what you call me, just stop trying to steal my f***ing land, OK?" I think this is what is important in all of this - we need to spend our time being concerned about things that are important and things that really matter. We're all people. We all share anscestors and we all have the same destinations. Let's try to do some things that are worthwhile along the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emul8 Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 karlunity -- That's IT? After my prize-winning reply? Hmph! Well I never! Just stick with "wagon burner", I am hoping that it'll become popular! Doble Troble -- You sir, are correct, dealing with issues of race and the like isn't what's important. We need to stick with a good old-fashioned "battle of the sexes", because before there was any of this stupid race/culture stuff, there were men and women. And of course, women are better. LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimro Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 women are better says the squaw... Sorry Emul8, I couldn't resist the "twofer" (two insults for the price of one). I just hope you find my humor half as funny as I do. Jimro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest_karlunity_* Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Of course women are better..... at cooking ...cleaning...following the advice of their lords and masters.. Hold on... here comes the Hippy with my beer on a silver plater...: ) karl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 ("Look, I don't give a f*** what you call me, just stop trying to steal my f***ing land, OK?") That could also be applied to the bureaucrats who are attempting to steal my land today. How many eminent domain laws for condemnation of personal land does it take before the public acts? Just because they are a taxpayer who does not own land, will they stand by and let the bureaucrats pass one after the other? At what point will common sense (or the ballot box) have the final say? There was a case here locally, and it seems to be ending with at least a bit of common sense (albeit in the words of the losing party, because it would cost too much in court to steal 209 acres of prime farm land for the $600/acre they offered. This for a landfill! And the party wanting to steal the land was the City of Victoria. They looked at the value (with the agricultural use) on their books, and offered $600. A private appraiser put it at $2500/acre. They seem willing to settle for $2000/acre. The landowner agreed to that figure, but the fundillo city attorney still says that is too much. But he knows he will lose in court, and will have to pay more. What a sieso. So, the land grabbing is still going on, and now the governor wants to put a 1200' wide super highway through the middle of my ranch. And take it for the least he can get it for. Makes no matter that lots are selling for $5000 an acre here. He will not want to pay that. Give him the power of eminent domain, and he will steal it from me, just as the bureaucrats stole that land from the Native Americans. fritz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailormilan2 Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 "In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people." Theodore Roosevelt, 1907 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swamprat Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 Karl, In my tribe I'm known as Chief Trouble Maker. The native name I go by is Hoc Paw Twoee. However you can just call me friend. Swamprat Half breed Creek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest karl Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 "Friend"..that works for me. Take care Karl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Uncle Unclean Buffalo Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 Heap good question white eyes.......me think-um me like to be called "Larry"... OR! you could use the term I Corp came up with to describe the tribes living in the highlands of Cambodia and Laos......"INDIGS" Army speak for indigenous people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan in S C Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 Any fool knows they are just plain "Injuns". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emul8 Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 Oh that's original, Stan in SC...gee, at least I contributed "wagon burner"...far more creative and far less overused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Uncle Unclean Buffalo Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 Oh that's original, Stan in SC...gee, at least I contributed "wagon burner"...far more creative and far less overused. "Wagon Burner" old speak......new speak..."SUV Burner". wagon heap tough to find... Larry freeze little red ass off waiting for wagon to come by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistJG26 Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 I thought the term Indian came from Columbus as he attempted to call the people he ran into "people of God." But then again what does a belagaana know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emul8 Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 Yeah, but you can't trust anything Columbus said...that man couldn't navigate for poo! Hmm, come to think of it, he sounds just like some men that I know! Not you fellas here of course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShooterTom Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 Geezz how did I miss this one!! Too late now! LOL Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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