7.65x53

[Wildlife Artist]

Hello

 

Can some one here tell me if these balistics sound correct for the 7.65x53 cartridge. Maybe some here has tested it?

 

Muzzle fps-------2920

Muzzle energy--2841

 

I'm interested in maybe building a gun for this cartridge.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

[AzRednek]

Just specualtion on my part. You are probably quoting Norma's ballistics through a 29 inch Argie military barrel. Although I've never cronyed the 7.65, my guess is the velocity will be lower in a shorter barrel. Don't let me discourage you, the 7.65 is a fine cartridge. One draw-back is the lack of available bullets and factory ammo on the market. If you intend to hunt with it the 308 Winnie would likely give similiar ballistics in barrels of equal length but the selection of available .308 bullets for reloading and ammo are probably the best in the business.

 

Freind of mine's father had been succesfully deer hunting with a hacked and bubbaized Argie for years. As far as the ol'timer is concerned there isn't a better cartridge made. He has a friend pull the military bullets and replace them with Hornady round nose slugs and he swears it is the absolute best ammo for deer. Can't argue with him, since I've known him he has bagged alot more venison than I have.

[Larry Gibson]

It is a very good cartridge for a M98 action. Groove depth should be .311-.312 and I'd suggest 24", preferably 26". There are actually quite a selection of .311/.312 bullets available these days from 60/85/100 gr HPs (pistol bullets) to 123/125 (AK SKS bullets) for varmints and several 150-185 gr bullets for hunting. There's a couple heavier ones also if desired as any of the bullets for the .303 or 7.62x54R will work fine in the 7.65 cartridge. There's also a very good shooting 174 gr Sierra Match King for serious target work. Case can be made from '06 size cases but I prefer to make them from W-W 8x57 cases, just FL size and trim. I believe there are 3 differnt factory cases available also. With modern powders like Varget a velocity of 2900+ fps is easily and safely obtained with 150 gr bullets in a 24" barrel. With 180 gr .311 Sierra Game Kings 2700+ fps is easily obtained which makes it equal to factory '06 ammo. For Varmints 3100+ fps is also obtainable with the 123/125 gr bullets. Loaded to equal pressures it will exceed the .308s capability and approach the '06s. It is a very balanced cartridge for the standard M98 lenght action.

 

Larry Gibson

[AzRednek]

Larry I have to agree the 7.65 can be driven to some respectable velocities but have to disagree with driving it at 308 pressures. Not a problem in a good 98 action but allot if not the majority of 7.65 is shot in the earlier and weaker Model 91. Without looking and working from memory. I believe the 308 delivers apx 48-50,000 lbs of pressure, way over the safe limit of a Model 91 which I believe and working again from memory is about a 40,000 lb limit.

 

I've loaded hundreds if not thousands of 7.65 over the past 30 years. As long as I or any of my shooting buddys have 91's I keep my 7.65 loads mild. My reloads based on published data tested in a 91 works fine and is very accurate in my 09's. I can't recall the exact load but I used IMR 3031 and Winchester 748. One of my friends uses IMR 4350 and gets similiar results using the 180 gr bullet for the 303 Brit. My load coupled with Hornady 174 gr round nose slugs follow the iron sights pretty closely. The loads also worked well in and are very accurate a 09 Carbine so I can assume they would work well in a barrel cut to sporter length. The lighter AK/SKS bullets shot way high and the group spread. Possibly it could be tamed with another powder. I assumed the twist wasn't right for the shorter lighter .310 sized bullet. I've never tried the 32 cal pistol bullets but it sounds like an interesting project. Sure wish I had thought of it when I was forming 7.65 brass from 06, could have saved some hard earned bux on bullets.

 

My biggest gripe with the 7.65 is the price of factory ammo. Norma's price is crazy and as far as I know there isn't any other factory ammo available. I believe Hanson made it for a short time before they closed up. Friend of mine has some 1950's 7.65 made by one of the USA biggies. I'm guessing but think it was made by Peters before they became part of Remington. In the 80's Century used to import non corrosive Argentine made sporting ammo with a 180 gr soft nose pointed bullet at a pretty decent price. The ammo was as accurate as Norma's at less than half the price. The boxes were specifically labeled not for use in 91 actions.

 

[BobVZ]

Here is an ammo source(boxer primed):

 

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/7.65_Argentine.html