ken98k Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 http://www.yahoo.com/s/809795 I'll be very surprised if we are not told to start turning in our guns by this time next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimro Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 I'll be very surprised if we are not told to start turning in our guns by this time next year. They've already banned guns from schools, obviously taking them away again will have just as much effect. Jimro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Hess Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 He was a graduate student in Sociology. What group of people go into graduate studies in Sociology? I suspect that more of the a-hole's background is being hidden. Hey, I know, let's pass a law making it illegal to kill people!!! That'd solve all these problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z1r Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 It's pretty amazing how frequent these sorts of things are becoming. What the hell is the matter with kids these days? Seems to me the Dems missed the boat when they had a chance to approve the instant background check years ago. Instead, now they'll likely opt for an outright ban. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roscoedoh Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 Democrats hate guns anyway...this type of thing just adds fuel to the fire when they begin demanding tougher regulations on them. This doesn't bode well for legitimate firearms owners. All it would take is a couple more shootings by depraved, mentally disturbed invdividuals and the right politicians in office and we'll be kissing our 2cd amendment rights good bye... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FC Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 Think like Joe Public. The common thread in the public mind is the gun. The shooters are all different, but the gun is always there. Now the gun will be the target to decrease crime. I don't think the public will go for more lenience on carrying guns. We are losing the P.R. war. Did anyone see Rush Hour 3? The French cab driver complained that Americans and shootings go together. The public and politicians will crank down on being able to easily get guns. Registration and wait periods are what we're likely to see. Remember that this guy who did the shooting had a clean record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
911rat Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 Has anyone else noticed a common thread of mental illness? I think most States closed their last mental health facilities years ago. I might be mistaken, but it seems none of the shooters had really close family ties either. I don't expect to see a movement to make mental health services more available or open up State hospitals again and I think our society has "progressed" beyond the traditional family. It takes a village now you know. It's easier to hold guns responsible than to concede that perhaps the social enlightenment of the past few decades wasn't the greatest thing after all. That being said, I'm seriously considering picking up an AR lower this summer before I can't have one, and picking up that Browning HP I've wanted for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z1r Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 Has anyone else noticed a common thread of mental illness? I think most States closed their last mental health facilities years ago. I might be mistaken, but it seems none of the shooters had really close family ties either. I don't expect to see a movement to make mental health services more available or open up State hospitals again and I think our society has "progressed" beyond the traditional family. It takes a village now you know. It's easier to hold guns responsible than to concede that perhaps the social enlightenment of the past few decades wasn't the greatest thing after all. That being said, I'm seriously considering picking up an AR lower this summer before I can't have one, and picking up that Browning HP I've wanted for a long time. Yeah, and the ironly is that the liberals claim it was Reagan that caused them to be shut down. I still think that instead of the stupid brady bill, they should have gone with the instant background check. It's a slippery slope getting into the whole mental health issue. On the one hand you want these folks gettig help but if you document it then they're less inclinded to seek it. Especially if they know they could lose their rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doble Troble Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 It's a slippery slope getting into the whole mental health issue. On the one hand you want these folks gettig help but if you document it then they're less inclinded to seek it. Especially if they know they could lose their rights. Absolutely perfect analysis. Homocide isn't anything new. A disarmed citizenry is. The problem is that our fellow Americans are no longer willing to accept that they're responsible for their own safety and defense. Government, especially the Left, is promoting this release of personal responsibility. Police are there to document events - when seconds count, law enforcement is there in minutes. Ever since Cain there has been homocidal insanity. I think it was about the second sin. It shouldn't be surprising that it hasn't gone away. What should be surprising is that our free society has become willing to subject itself to disarmament. People have been and will always be killed by evil and homocidally insane people. But with an armed citizenry the extent of murder is diminished, and the frequency of events is reduced. This all started in Texas in the mid-60s, and the murderer on the bell-tower was rapidly pinned-down by faculty and staff with hunting rifles. This somehow has stupidly slid to the poiint where faculty, staff and students on any educational property across our country commit a FELONY if they are armed. People who are homocidally insane aren't so crazy that they choose to kill where victims may be able to effectively defend themselves. Of course this explains why educational areas have become preferred targets - more 'bang' for your life. Why hasn't anyone wondered why police and military facilities have been left out of these types of events? The longer that we as a nation accept the prescence of "gun free zones" is as long as we will be burdened by the repeated incidence of mass homocides. Nothing other that the threat of immediate, lethal response will deter homocidal insanity. This should be obvious to anyone in a leadership position in our country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlunity Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 Nothing other that the threat of immediate, lethal response will deter homocidal insanity. This should be obvious to anyone in a leadership position in our country. True..but History teaches that the hereditary ruling classes ALWAYS restricted the carnying of arms to their own class. One could make the case that the ARMS are what make them the ruling class. America is unique in that we, till this point, have no heredity ruling class, but the progressive are working to change that. The sooner the people can be disarmed the sooner their can be Put in their proper place. So these public mass shootings are seen, by our betters as a boon, as they help the convince the commons to hand in their arms in the name of public safety. Karl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FC Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 I don't have everything figured out, but the gun-owning community had better figure out how they are going to reach the majority of Americans who just want gun crime to stop. We haven't done the best job of trying to think like the average person, and esp. like the average American female. They haven't grown up around guns or hunting. Most just see guns as killing machines, which they do quite effectively. They want the machines of death controlled. Average Americans don't see any better ways to control criminal behavior other than what we are already doing, but the mass killings keep happening, and they see the ability to efficiently kill large numbers of people the problem, and guns are the center of the problem in each mass killing situation. In Iraq and Israel the mass killings are associated with explosives, but here it is the modern firearm. Here are the questions a lot of the public, and esp. women want answers to. We must tackle these questions better: 1. How much firepower should one person be able to own? (It's not the day of the flintlock anymore.) 2. How do you make the public comfortable with the idea of private gun ownership? 3. How do you relate to city people who see guns as killing machines with no modern purpose? 4. Law enforcement works to a point, but the mass killings continue. The gun gives nutcases the ability to kill a lot of people quickly. How do we address this issue? (Notice the StreetSweeper shotgun that was banned, or the Thompson wasn't used, because they aren't available.) 5. People want the violence to end. How can we make that happen if guns are easy to obtain? (our typical answers aren't working very well.) 6. Guns make most of the public afraid. How do we change this? (Hey, I've been shot; there really is reason to be afraid.) 7. A lot of people don't hunt, and some don't care if other people hunt, but firepower in excess of hunting needs is deemed dangerous. 8. What should the litmus test of gun ownership be? How should gun owners be accountable to the public? Some say they shouldn't be accountable at all. Some say nobody should own a gun. 9. How do you prevent somebody who is stable today, but not tomorrow from getting a gun? 10. How should the public be able to protect themselves? 11. Gun technology keep making leaps. How much access should the public have to that firepower? 12. The average person will not accept gun-toting college students to protect them. How are we going to address school shootings in light of this discomfort in carrying guns? 13. This stuff didn't happen when we were kids. It's obvious the American family has broken down, and spiritually we're sick. Now we have to deal with a broken-down society with access to guns, mixed with normal people who want to carry guns. We, and the NRA, have to get beyond just trying to win in court. We'd better tackle these problems. Some of these questions might upset some of you, but if we don't take on these questions in new ways, there won't be any firearm future apart from strict legal control. Take the emotion out of the argument, and come up with some real answers. There is a lot of dogmatism on in both the camps that are for and against gun restrictions. But I have to say that our side is largely fragmented. Real vision and leadership is scarce. There are loads of shooters, hunters, and gun owners that have quotes like pulling their gun "from their cold, dead fingers." That sort of talk won't win anyone over. My thought is that we need to pull back and look at the issues, the facts, the opposition's frame of mind, and especially look at the average Joe and Jane that don't want a gun in their house. We either learn to talk to them about what concerns them, or we'll lose the whole shootin' match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlecanoe Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 FC, All good points. I think that the answer is possibly in public awareness. You're point of where the NRA focuses is well made. No matter how many laws we make on either side and no matter how many politicians vote the right way we still have a problem. Public Perception. Public perception is the enemy because of political pandering. How many of hour trusted officials will stand by principle if it means losing the vote and losing power. Many, hopefully not most, would scuttle the 2nd amendment in a heart beat. Maybe it's time for the NRA and some of the other organizations start to educate the masses. Billboards, TV and Radio ads. It won't win them all but it might win a majority. Beyond that, I can't think of another catalyst except a total breakdown of our way of life to the point that arms are necessary for survival. lc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlunity Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 When I was born there were about 160 million Americans and about 3 billion people on earth. Assuming that I live till 2040 they estimate that there will be, birth control and the "Gay" lifestyle not with standing, 400 million Americans and about 9 billion people on the same sized earth. In is getting crowded and the pressure of success is getting more intense, the life time factory jobs are long gone and longevity is now seen as a minus at the office. Professional skill, once a protection, remember the "Third Wave" is gone. You can get your floor plan or part designed in India and sent via the net for one third of what a US firm will charge. So people go mad..same thing happens to rats in a small cage. Going mad they kill as do the rats..I see more bans and if the Dem's win, when something like this happens again, rather draconian bans. I may have to vote for "the little mac". Soon I see a limit of 6 shot handguns and five round rifles..." surely 6 shots is MORE than enough for for the needs of self defense and 5 for hunting...any reasonable person ...." "It is for the children"..Till next time..... It may seem that we SHOULD hand in our collections for the public good, but once our arms are gone only the state will have arms, recall Waco and Ruby Ridge, and the state is controlled by men, not demigods down that grim path hides chains and slavery. The only answers as I see it are a Fourth Great Awakening or space colonies or a class system to rival pre-British India or a really big third world war. Perhaps education is an answer, but we first have to regain control of the educational system and the mass media. It may be easier to colonize Mars. Karl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimro Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 Karl, I understand your point, after all what you predict is the way of Europe. But Germany has quite a number of school shootings every year, and the well publicized Finnish school shooting last year makes it clear that the "gun limit" policies are completely ineffective at reducing "mass slaughter". However, the Israeli model of armed teachers and a volunteer security force made up mainly of grandparents has shown to be effective at deterring those who would endanger our children. We don't need the European model, we need the Israeli model. Jimro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlunity Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 We don't need the European model, we need the Israeli model. Jimro. I agree, but how do we get there? karl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlecanoe Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 A third great awakening would be awesome! A less desirable thing would be a 3rd revolution. I don't think that people care about freedom that much. The frog is in the pot and the water is very warm............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlunity Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 speaking of revolution, I am starting to hear a buzz on the net that there will be riots if Hill "steals" the nomination from obomby. Interesting summer wot? Karl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlecanoe Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 Don't wanna hijack the thread, but hill is in a tough spot. If she cuts Obama's legs from under him she's a hippocrit. There may be riots, but the dem party just might be set to splinter. If he wins the delegate count and the supers override the regular delegates WOW. Duck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doble Troble Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 A friend just sent me this in an email. I think it's a really good analysis. There’s a holster on my side whenever I leave the house. No legislation ever conceived can place a gun in that holster, or remove it from there. I am the only person on the planet who has the power to do that, regardless of what a bunch of people in Raleigh or Washington, D.C. or on CNN’s Reader Comments page have to say on the matter. In the end, I make that decision, and I am the only one who has to live with the consequences of it. Should I carry where my masters have decreed that I may not, I can be arrested and incarcerated. Should I not carry when I suddenly have a need for a gun to defend myself, I may die. In the end, the decision is mine, every day, regardless of what laws are in effect. I’ve made my decision on the matter a long time ago, and I have decided that other opinions on it are irrelevant, because the people who hold them will neither go to jail for me, nor die for me. Whether you want to carry a gun to defend yourself, or you go unarmed because of laws or personal philosophy, understand that the choice is your own every day, and that the consequences of that choice will be yours alone to bear as well. People shouldn’t be forced to choose between their right to self-defense and their freedom. The very thought that a bunch of people in some far-away gold-domed building can decide for you whether you may bear the tools to save your own life merely because another group of people gave them the authority to do that is ludicrous. But who in their right mind would give a rat’s ass about permission slips and majority approval when one’s own life is at stake? It would be like obeying your elected officials if they tell you that you may only swim when you’re wearing approved swim trunks, swim in approved swim zones, and ask permission from the State in writing before swimming, and then drowning when your vehicle rolls into a “no swim zone” canal because you don’t want to get punished for swimming. Sure, you may blame the law when you swim anyway and then get arrested and incarcerated for Felony Swimming, but you cannot blame the law when you die for lack of swimming…because it was your choice whether to swim anyway and bear the consequences of that decision, good and bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
724wd Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 Karl, I understand your point, after all what you predict is the way of Europe. But Germany has quite a number of school shootings every year, and the well publicized Finnish school shooting last year makes it clear that the "gun limit" policies are completely ineffective at reducing "mass slaughter". What i see wrong with your post here is the assumption that German and Finnish school shootings are common knowledge. i have never heard of them. i dont pay a lot of attention to the news, mainly because of its focus on the negative. now, were the NRA or perhaps a group not so villified place tv ADS (which i do see) and magazine ads in women's magazines and TV shows, the message might get out there. instead, they (the NRA and other sportsmans groups) concentrate their advertising on Outdoor Channel and sportsmans magazines. we sportsmen know the score. it's the millions of city dwelling moms that don't. they need to refocus their advertising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimro Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 What i see wrong with your post here is the assumption that German and Finnish school shootings are common knowledge. i have never heard of them. i dont pay a lot of attention to the news, mainly because of its focus on the negative. now, were the NRA or perhaps a group not so villified place tv ADS (which i do see) and magazine ads in women's magazines and TV shows, the message might get out there. instead, they (the NRA and other sportsmans groups) concentrate their advertising on Outdoor Channel and sportsmans magazines. we sportsmen know the score. it's the millions of city dwelling moms that don't. they need to refocus their advertising. I should clarify, the Finnish school shooting got a lot of press for about a week. German school shootings always get a short blurb in "international" section of cnn.com. They don't get the mass hand wringing hysteria that a US school/mall shooting does, with experts weighing in on how it could have been prevented by stricter gun control. I get most of my news from the internet so I probably have an easier time sorting through the BS than someone who gets a local paper and watches the evening news... But we get our way in this political climate by having good lobbyists who can sell the Israeli model of public security to congress. Unless we can get a mass education campaign that lets people see the disastrous course gun control/confiscation will take us down then there is no way to affect the legislation of a democracy without having very well funded lobbyists. Jimro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Hess Posted February 24, 2008 Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 Here's a little info on that last school murderer that didn't quite get reported by CNN: http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=57086 School shooter studied Hamas, says friend 'He would especially enjoy practicing his Arabic on me' -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted: February 22, 2008 6:00 pm Eastern © 2008 WorldNetDaily A former Northern Illinois University newspaper reporter says the killer who gunned down five innocent students in an apparently unprovoked attack liked to study Arabic and the terror group Hamas. "'Assalamo alikum,' he [steve Kazmierczak] would say to me, which means 'peace be with you' in Arabic," wrote Rasmieyh Abdelnabi in an essay published in the Chicago Sun-Times. "He would proceed to ask me how I was doing and what I was up to, all in Arabic with a thick accent and a huge, excited smile," she continued. She said the two met in class at the university, took several classes together over the years, and periodically kept in touch when they didn't share classes. "Our topics of choice: foreign policy and the Middle East. He would especially enjoy practicing his Arabic on me. In 2004, NIU decided to offer a year's worth of Arabic classes. Steve took both classes without hesitation, excited as could be," she wrote. Just over a week ago, Kazmierczak burst into a lecture hall and shot and killed five students and then himself. The New York Times reports he was taking an anti-anxiety drug and a sleeping aid in addition to the antidepressant Prozac. But authorities have yet to announce what they believe could have been a motive for his attack, which left Daniel Parmenter, 20, of Westchester, Ill.; Catalina Garcia, 20, of Cicero, Ill.; Ryanne Mace, 19, of Carpentersville, Ill.; Julianna Gehant, 32, of Mendota, Ill.; and Gayle Dubowski, 20, of Carol Stream, Ill., dead. On Thursday, a week after the attack, the university observed five minutes of silence, one minute for each of the victims. Abdelnabi wrote that she initially could not believe Kazmierczak was the killer. "But now I find myself wondering if I ever knew Steve, the man who shot and killed five people and then himself in a lecture hall at my alma mater, Northern Illinois University," she said. She found out about the killings through a text message from a friend, and confirmed it online. She said she acted as his "walking dictionary" occasionally. "'What does this word mean in English?' or 'What is this word in Arabic?'" she reported he would ask. "Once we took a course called 'The Politics of the Middle East.' At the beginning of the course, our instructor informed us a research paper would be due by the end of the semester. Steve decided on Hamas, which is known mainly to the world as being a Palestinian terrorist group, which was the first thing that interested Steve about the group. But he also heard Hamas funded many social services, which also interested him. How could one group be put into two completely different categories, Steve would ask," she wrote. "Unlike most of us, Steve started his research from day one, reading every book he could find on Hamas. He'd give me a status report when we saw each other in class. Steve said that his perception of Hamas changed with all the research he did," she said. Authorities also have reported that Kazmierczak took several precautions that would impede investigators, including removing a memory card from his cell phone and removing the hard drive from his computer. Hundreds of witnesses are being interviewed, but university officials have said it's unclear of Kazmierczak's reasons. On a a blog called Muslim Watcher, writer Bruce Keegan noted Abdelnabi was the women's representative in the Muslim Student Association at NIU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FC Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 Gee, I wonder how this escaped CNN?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlunity Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 Now..now FC You KNOW, better than us that ISLAM is the religion of peace. Any way can't let this sort of thing ..bad for business don't you know ? If the People find out, they may get mad....the Saudis won't like that...might cut off those petro bucks the pols of both parties need. Karl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doble Troble Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 Islam promotes peace to non-belivers if they convert or are enslaved. Otherwise its "smite the neck" time. But of course peaceful conversion is preferred (slaves can be expensive to keep, and neck cutting is really messy [as OJ demonstrated - is he muslim?]). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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