karlunity Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Folks. I am not what you might call a "peace-lover". I think that I was and would be again, if called, as quick to go to war as the next Marine, but I do not understand why folks want to go to war with Russia over Georgia. Can someone explain why Georgia is worth driving Russia into the arms of China and risking an atomic war? This was the birth place of Stalin and part of Russia for, I think, 200 years!!! What would we do if the folks in our Georgia voted to secede again and Russia recognized and sent arms to a new CSA? Unlike some, I have NEVER been anti-war but I do think that there should be some national interest involved or national insult to avenge, here, I don't see one. Karl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimro Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 Georgia angered the bear by requesting membership in NATO when NATO couldn't protect it from the bear. Jimro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Hess Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 Yeah, I have a problem with "defending" Georgia too. I don't really care what the Russians want over there. It is their part of the world. NATO is obsolete. We defended Europe for 60 years, they send a handfull of troops to Afganistan and think we're all even. Why should Georgia be in NATO? I don't think they are anywhere near the North Atlantic anyway. Even inviting them or the Ukraine is just a stick in the eye to Russia, like they need an excuse to get mad. Their economy is rebuilding and they are looking to rebuild their empire now. Meanwhile, we seem to be doing everything possible to destroy our economy and empire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FC Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 I support arming Georgia so they can fight for themselves. The Russians are bullies. I support helping people who want to be free. Iraq and Afhanistan are in their neighborhood too. Being in their hood doesn't mean they are part of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken98k Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Folks. I am not what you might call a "peace-lover". I think that I was and would be again, if called, as quick to go to war as the next Marine, but I do not understand why folks want to go to war with Russia over Georgia. Can someone explain why Georgia is worth driving Russia into the arms of China and risking an atomic war? This was the birth place of Stalin and part of Russia for, I think, 200 years!!! What would we do if the folks in our Georgia voted to secede again and Russia recognized and sent arms to a new CSA? Unlike some, I have NEVER been anti-war but I do think that there should be some national interest involved or national insult to avenge, here, I don't see one. Karl I would not have believed Karl said this if I didn't read it myself! Can it be that you're finally seeing things as they really are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flaco Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 Right on Karl and Dr.Hess. The risk/reward ratio is way out of balance. There's nothing to be gained. flaco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlunity Posted September 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 Fellas. I still think that there are times when war is not only required but a positive force for good and then any man should rush to enlist. I just don't see this ( Georgia ) as one of those times. I support the war in Iraq and would love to bomb Iran "back to the stone age" ...I recall the Hostages. Karl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FC Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 Okay, I get it- screw you if you are our friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimro Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 Tony, if we were in a position to affect the outcome of the spat in Georgia the spat in Georgia wouldn't have happened. Georgia was stupid to anger the Bear when it couldn't call upon the support of the West. I truly wish it weren't so, but it is what it is. Jimro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FC Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 And we'll sit by and watch it happen to Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, and Ukraine. Bullies know force, and that's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimro Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 It happened before, and history has a way of repeating itself, especially in Europe. Europe usually ends up as a Russian hegemony or a German hegemony if America doesn't step up to the plate for the little guys. Although I don't know how that will play out with the current political sentiment in Germany. Ever since the Third Reich rampage across Europe the Germans have been very sensitive about military action. Jimro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FC Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 I had a friend in the 3rd grade named Randy Stenzell. The toughest guy in school was picking on him. I told him to leave Randy alone. He said, "What are you going to do about it?" The friend of Mr. tuffy, the second toughest kid in school and I fought. I got beat up pretty good, but I beat the pulp out of his face. Randy was never picked on again, and the kid I fought ended up being a good friend. Yeah, just a school story, but Russia really watched to see if anybody would do anything about it. Nope, nobody did anything. What happened next? They didn't leave, and then one of their generals threatens nuclear force on Poland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlunity Posted September 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 FC. You did the right thing. But the nation will NOT go to war over Georgia. Nations should not make promises to other nations that they cannot, not will not, cannot keep . You know I think that Marines are the best troops to walk the earth since the Roman Republic, but we just don't have enough of them to take Moscow. Short of SAC and atomic weapons, we don't have the means to defeat Russia at this time. Before you go to war, you worse case. Are we willing to go as far as it takes to win? Russia is an Atomic power, are we willing to lose NYC or Dallas? Is it worth it to the Nation? If the answer is "yes" you go to war. If the answer is "no" you don't go to war. Karl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Hess Posted September 15, 2008 Report Share Posted September 15, 2008 Tony, I agree with you on the bully thing, but you also have to pick your fights and know your limitations. Right now, we are pretty much alone against the Moslems. We're stuck in Afganistan, a shiite-hole that has sucked up the world's superpowers since time began, we're cleaning up Iraq and making war noises with Iran. In all our wars, we have to pretend to play nice, otherwise we might "hurt the feelings" of the people trying to kill us. Our economy is under attack by the oil exporters, most of who happen to be Moslem (go figger), and it's taking some serious body blows. Our government has been taken over by communists (just a matter of degree) promising everything to everyone, cradle to grave. Our borders are virtually non-existant as we pretend to arrest Mexicans coming up here to steal our jobs. We are in no position for a war with Russia or anyone else, regardless of the rules that will be put in place. And with Russia in particular, right in their back yard. Georgia was actually part of the USSR, wasn't it? I sympathize with the Georgians, certianly. I don't know what's going on there as we never get any real news (see commie takeover), but it is entirely possible that what happened is the Russians sent people into part of Georgia to settle, then those people say "we're Russians and we're breaking away and joining Russia" and the Russians go and kick Georgia's ass to make it happen. Not unlike the Mexicans sending their people into the US southwest, then declaring it part of Mexico. I strongly suspect that's what happened, and the reason for it comes down to money, as usual, as that part of Georgia happens to have oil and a pipeline running through it that supplies something like 10% of Europe's energy. So, we're talking real money here. And just how far are we willing to go for Georgia? Marines on the ground shooting Russians? B1Bs and B52s dropping bombs? Nukes? For what? To ensure that 10% of Europe's energy supply is not firmly in Russian control? I don't want to see my friends like Tony sent to go get killed to protect Europe's oil supply, much less start an actual shooting war with a nuclear armed and really rather tough collection of barely stable bullies. Screw the Europeans. Let them deal with it. We have enough problems right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FC Posted September 16, 2008 Report Share Posted September 16, 2008 I support arming Georgians to fight for themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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