BradD Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 I am starting a new project (finished my 9.3x64 and am getting bored). I had couple Siamese Mausers which have had much done to them including reheat treating and they have just been staring at me ever since. I've built three 45-70s over the years and couldn't think of much more to do in that vein. They have been great hog guns and I think the world of them. Just don't need anymore, thank you. Then I discovered the 45-90. Same cartridge 1/4" longer. With the 350 gr Hornady or the 325 gr Barnes Condor-approved bullet it fits with room to spare in the mag and seems to function just fine. This could be a real beast. My 45-70s are churning up about 2100-2200 fps. Although there is no loading data to even start from, except 45-70, I think I can reach 2500-2600 fps with the 45-90 and 325-350 gr bullets. 458 Win Mag get your fat butt out of the way! Has anybody done this or heard of it being done? Will be awhile till it gets back and I get it stocked but will let you know how it goes. Heck, I may do a 45-100 next. Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Hess Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 I have one of the NRA Tom Selleck 45-110 rounds here on my desk. Go for it. I bet those hogs would drop and roll. I remember reading in the newsletter/catalog flyer from JD Jones that the 45-70 (Contender) made a good elephant gun as hardball would go through 6' of elephant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailormilan2 Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 Which 45/90 are you going to build? 45/90 Winchester or the 45/90 Sharps? 45/90 Winchester case is 2.40" long(2.88" COL), and 45/90 Sharps is 2.75"(2.85" or 3.00" COL). I don't think the 45/120 Sharps will fit in the action, since the case is 3.25" long. The 45/70, 45/90 Win cal be fired in a 45/90 Sharps chamber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradD Posted April 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 Which 45/90 are you going to build? 45/90 Winchester or the 45/90 Sharps? 45/90 Winchester case is 2.40" long(2.88" COL), and 45/90 Sharps is 2.75"(2.85" or 3.00" COL). I don't think the 45/120 Sharps will fit in the action, since the case is 3.25" long. The 45/70, 45/90 Win cal be fired in a 45/90 Sharps chamber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradD Posted April 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 Oh Dale, please don't confuse me with too much info. You know I'm getting old. As far as I know I'm going with 45-90 Win. Is the Sharps round really different or just have a third lube ring on the bullet or some such thing? The one I'm doing is 1/4" longer than the 45-70, otherwise SOS. Appreciate the intense questioning, even if I can't cope with it. Seriously, I'm hoping to up an already great chambering by a few hundred feet. The RCBS dies weren't out of sight as they listed them as "Legacy" dies instead of Group F as they used to be and Starline brass is less than a buck a piece. My barrel guy thinks I'm goofy, but is willing to do it. Should be an E Ticket ride. Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailormilan2 Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 The 45/90 Win case is roughly 1/4" longer than the 45/70 Gov't, and the 45/90 Sharps case is approx. .3" longer than the Win case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rivitir Posted April 2, 2010 Report Share Posted April 2, 2010 Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the 45/90 & 45/110 (Quigley round) sharps are black powder and the 45/70 is smokeless? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gun nutty Posted April 2, 2010 Report Share Posted April 2, 2010 Shhhh... If he uses smokeless instead of black powder, I won't tell. In a dual-lugged Mauser, it won't make a difference. In a Sharp's rifle or some old original 45-90, sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roscoedoh Posted April 2, 2010 Report Share Posted April 2, 2010 Glad to hear you're up and about and building rifles again Brad! Keep us informed. I've often thought about building a thumper like a 45-90 but haven't had the time or skill to do it. Just to be different, how about building it with a long barrel and flip tang sight? Sort of like a bolt action Sharps. Have fun! Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailormilan2 Posted April 2, 2010 Report Share Posted April 2, 2010 Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the 45/90 & 45/110 (Quigley round) sharps are black powder and the 45/70 is smokeless? 45/70 started life as a black powder round. 45 Caliber, 70 grains of black powder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic1 Posted April 3, 2010 Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 i have a 45/90 reamer if you need it.......and yes you can use smokeless powder and filler..in a 45/90 load Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gun nutty Posted April 3, 2010 Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 i have a 45/90 reamer if you need it.......and yes you can use smokeless powder and filler..in a 45/90 load Do 3031 and R-7 need filler? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradD Posted April 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 Sonic, appreciate the offer on the reamer, I may take you up on it. My barrel guy said "What!" when I brought this whole matter up to him. I may need yours. Just like the 45-70 the 45-90 is an old buffalo cartridge in black powder. And just like with the 45-70 I'm going to to do a switcheroo into smokeless and develop some real man sized smokeless loads in a heat treated Siamese. The 45-110 is out of the question for future events, at least in a Siamese. I appreciate Dale's info, but I don't think a 45-whatever Sharps is going to be a part of this adventure. Action goes off to my poor head-shaking barrel guy (IT&D Custom Gun) on Monday. I will still have the whole stocking proposition ahead of me when it gets home so may be a while till I report how it works or how many fingers I lost. One more item, the Hornady 350 gr. RN was a beautiful bullet in this ctg. The 350 gr. Barnes TSX sucked. As most of you know, I live in the condor-approved-bullet zone. I opened the mag well some (lots of meat to remove there) and squished to bullet down more than I wanted and made it function. I think the sissy-assed 300 gr may be the way to go on the Barnes bullet. I hate being under gunned. Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradD Posted April 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 Gun nutty, IMR 4198 has always been a fantastic powder for me in the 45-70. I will probably start with my 45-70 loads and then work up to whatever I can get away with. If it doesn't put out I will probably switch to Benchrest or Varget. No luck there, I'll go 'splorin. Get back to you, Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gun nutty Posted April 3, 2010 Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 Gun nutty, IMR 4198 has always been a fantastic powder for me in the 45-70. I will probably start with my 45-70 loads and then work up to whatever I can get away with. If it doesn't put out I will probably switch to Benchrest or Varget. No luck there, I'll go 'splorin. Get back to you, Brad 4759 is similar to 4227, but "bulked-up" by having a hole in the center. I think the data between the two powders is damn near identical. Should fill that space much better. I love R-7. Versatile and very uniform. Meters very well too. 4198 is very universal, but is more Lincoln-loggy. Every time I mention R-7, someone chimes in with 4198. Both are great performers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradD Posted April 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 Gn, thanks for the info. I'll give it a try. Don't have any around so will pick some up. Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradD Posted April 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 Gun nutty, I thought I better check back and be sure, is R-7 Reloder 7? If so, it does indeed look very promising. I have always had good luck the Reloders, maybe only once it was too bulky to make a good load in something or other. Sonic, Im seriously thinking about your reamer. Will check with Dave on Monday and see what he wants to do. Is yours the 45-90 Win (aka 45-2 1/4")? Thanks, Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gun nutty Posted April 12, 2010 Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 (edited) Yes. R-7 is Reloader-7. I use it for everything I can. I can't think of a more versatile powder for rifle cartridges. OK, OK... I guess you could TECHNICALLY use 4227 in a 30/06. Works great in my .223 and my .17 Mach IV. Dandy for the 30/30 and works effectively in the .308 Win. It's not a "scorcher" powder, but generates excellent accuracy with mild to moderate loads. For R-7, 50 grains behind a 300gr jacketed is starting for 45/70, if I remember. An old acquaintance used an Elmer Keith load of IMR-3031 and a 405gr, but I don't remember the charge. The web says anywhere from 51-53 grains. That's some impressive recoil. That extra 1/4" longer 45/90 case should look like a fool's errand with that load! IMR still lists 4759 on their website. As stated earlier, its burn rate is similar to 4227, but it was designed with a hole in the center like a donut. This allows the power to take up more room in the case and should eliminate the need for fiber fillers. It's advertised as a top choice for reduced loads and should help to eliminate S-E-E and ringing of chambers (due to cardboard toppers). Edited April 12, 2010 by gun nutty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradD Posted April 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 GN, thanks for the info. Will give me a place to start on that road. Sonic, I just went out to look at my stuff because all of a sudden it wasn't making sense. Remember how sailormilan was asking the questions about WHICH 45-90 I was using? Well, when I started looking closer I noticed everything they sent me was the 2.4" stuff. It was from Graf's. Some places at Graf's it says 45-90 Win (2 1/4") and others 45-90 (2.4) and you can't get any clear info, but as I said, what showed up is 2.4". Okay, finally got it square. The 2.4 IS the 45-90 Win round. Is no 2 1/4" case. So, sir, if you get a minute to check, and you're still willing, would you check to see if you can ascertain which reamer you have? Thanks again, Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradD Posted April 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 GN, By the way, I'm stuffin' that mother with gunpowder. My 45-70 does well with the 4198 charge and no filler is needed. I figure with either 4198 or perhaps RL-7 or something close I can fill the case to around 85-90% and go boom. If I was shooting some lever gun or ss, all of this would be out of the question, but with a Mauser, especially a heat treated one, I'm running with the big dogs. Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gun nutty Posted April 12, 2010 Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 http://www.reloadersnest.com/frontpage.asp?CaliberID=91 Rock 'n roll! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic1 Posted June 1, 2010 Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 brad hows the 45-90 project going ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradD Posted June 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 brad hows the 45-90 project going ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradD Posted June 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 Ken, it's been back at IT&D for a little over a month. Your reamer went back as soon as I got it from you. I told Dave to call me if it didn't look like the right one and didn't hear from him so I guess all is well. A buddy sent an action back to him to become a 350 Rem Mag at the same and has gotten his invoice so it must be moving along in the line. I may call him tomorrow and get an update and let you know. Thanks, Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Gibson Posted June 10, 2010 Report Share Posted June 10, 2010 Brad I have a Siamese Mauser I converted to 45-70. I have it throated long so the Barnes Original 400 gr SP can be seated to magazine length. This basically gives the case the 45-90s case capacity. I load the barnes over RL7 and run it at 2310 fps. My Oheler M43 PBL gives that load a psi of 62,000. I need to revisit the 350 gr bullets as i used to push the hornady to 2525 fps with BR748 and I've no idea what it will do with newer 748 or other powders. My barrel is 24' so if yours is at least that long you shouldn't have problems reaching 2500+ fps with the 350 gr bullets. I think the 350 SPs at those velocities are more practical than the 400 gr bullets for any game on this continant. I have a canelure tool and with that and a Lee factory crimp die I can seat to about any practical length I need to to take advantage of the mag length and case capacity. Be interesting to see what loads you come up with. Larry Gibson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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