rustvyper Posted February 8, 2012 Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 Well I've been taking a lot of pictures & I intended to not post until my "simple" project was complete, haha, but being a engineer I can't keep things simple so I'm gonna throw this out in the intertubes for you guys to digest... I'm always trading this & that & somewhere along the way I aquired an ATI mossy oak sporter stock for the Mosin, an ATI scope mount & a 1942 Izhevsk 91/30 that is rouuuugh, but shoots on a dime. So, I thought to myself, "self" ('cuz I always talk in the 3rd person to myself) "self, you have all the parts, why not build a simple sporter for dad's farm." All we have there right now is a norinco sks & a nice scope rifle would not be amiss. Anyway, the SIMPLE way would have been to weld an ATI style bolt, D&T, chop the barrel to 22", recrown, sand blast & then duracoat, but that would be too easy, wouldn't it!?! I decided to shorten that ugly magazine to something flush with the stock. I was hoping to take a 5+0 design & go to a 3+1 or somesuch. Now, as you all know, the mosin nagant follower is not a simple "W" style spring like most of the mauser children are. I decided my teo options would be to try to reutilize the orginal design, except I anchor it farther up to a new pinned position. This was my first idea. This worked fine, except the follower would move past the orginal position so you coulnd't close the bolt on an empty chamber. The second idea was to use the spring & follower from a WASR-3 single stack AK mag I had laying in a drawer. The follower & spring fit like a glove, except there's nothing to keep the follower from shooting up through the chamber once the final round is out. I tried cutting the spring to the correct length, but it doesn't have the tension to reliably feed the last round in that configuration. So...here's the question to the internet collective. Can you think of a way to engineer a follower that will reliably feed 3 rounds, yet stay in the magazine when the bolt is open & the gun is empty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustvyper Posted February 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 Here's an illustration to better show what I'm babbling about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadio Posted February 8, 2012 Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 Here's an illustration to better show what I'm babbling about. I want to do this too, however all I have parts-wise is a bolt and a stripped guard. So without a receiver to reference my comments against, is it possible to "ear" the follower with tabs to keep it down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brokengun Posted February 8, 2012 Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 SHot gun news has recently published a new book of its gunsmithing projects. i got mine from amazon for i think $13. It has in it a section where a mosin Nagant is sporterized which includes the cutting of the mag to make it flush. Cotfield was the smith, the article shows how he cut the mag to be flush with the stock and how he got around the follower/spring problem. He cut the mag along a scribe line of the lower stock thus cutting the trigger guard in two pieces. He used a shotgun trigger guard to replac it. The way he did it allowed him to use the original pin at the front of the mag, spring and follower but he did slightly gring the follower to fit. I will try to study this more if it would help although having the books would be better since it has pictures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustvyper Posted February 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 SHot gun news has recently published a new book of its gunsmithing projects. i got mine from amazon for i think $13. It has in it a section where a mosin Nagant is sporterized which includes the cutting of the mag to make it flush. Cotfield was the smith, the article shows how he cut the mag to be flush with the stock and how he got around the follower/spring problem. He cut the mag along a scribe line of the lower stock thus cutting the trigger guard in two pieces. He used a shotgun trigger guard to replac it. The way he did it allowed him to use the original pin at the front of the mag, spring and follower but he did slightly gring the follower to fit. I will try to study this more if it would help although having the books would be better since it has pictures Yep, I've got this article in PDF format. His description is sketchy at best. I'm doing basically the same thing he is, making my own aluminum floorplate & replacing the triggerguard with a $3 shotgun bow I got at a gun show. From near as I can tell he relocated the pin in the original follower. I tried that, but it makes the follower protrude past the top of the magazine. I guess you could thumb-depress the follower to close the empty bolt (aka military Mauser style) but the new angle keeps it from feeding reliably as well. Cotfield may have had the same problem, he doesn't say. The AK follower works perfect, it just won't stay in the mag well. Maybe I just need to study it so I can figure a war to engineer a stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinkerfive Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 I'm having trouble picturing what you are talking about so I'll just throw out 2 ideas. 1. a retention lanyard that folds up with the spring and limits the upward travel of the follower. 2. guide tabs added to the follower that extend out past the follower such that it would be stopped by the bottom of the receiver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadio Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 I'm having trouble picturing what you are talking about so I'll just throw out 2 ideas. 1. a retention lanyard that folds up with the spring and limits the upward travel of the follower. 2. guide tabs added to the follower that extend out past the follower such that it would be stopped by the bottom of the receiver. #2 was my question above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gun nutty Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Looking at the follower assembly, there are three main parts (not counting the springs): the follower the follower arm the "floorplate" At the point where the follower arm connects with the "floorplate", there's a small pivot pin. You could put a pin in the top of the forward, radiused edge of the follower arm; this would be just forward of the pivot pin. You'd then grind slots on either side of the pin hole, in the "floorplate" for the pin to drop into. The deeper the slots, the higher the follower rises. If you can determine the final follower height, you could drill the pin hole through all three surfaces and then remove metal to create the slots for the pin the slide through. I'd rather add metal on the follower arm radius if I could; perhaps a small plate that I could file away-at. It might work without it. Don't forget about the follower:you'll have to tilt it down. A dab of weld on the top rear edge of the arm might do. You could heat the rear and "tweak" it with a hammer, bending it up slightly. You just don't want to upset the follower/arm pivot pin hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustvyper Posted February 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 I think I'm going with the ak mag follower. I giv Col. mosin his due, his follower system is ingenious but bulky. I solved the problem using the original system by shortening the bottom spring. However, it's too bulky & doesn't compress enough to fit 3 round in the magwell. With the ak follower I can do a 3+0 as opposed to the 2+1 the modified original affords me. I think I'll do a thin metal cutout that slips between the mag & the receiver. The bullet is only *slightly* smaller than the follower, which is only *slightly* smaller than the magwell opening so it'll be an interesting fit. I'll post some pictures soon of the design (if it works)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odies dad Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Would it be possible to convert it to a Mauser type TG/floor plate or a blind magazine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustvyper Posted February 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Would it be possible to convert it to a Mauser type TG/floor plate or a blind magazine? Possible - yes. Extremely difficult though. The rear screw's threads are located in the rear of the triggerguard (backwards from a mauser). So you'd have to engineer a way for the screw to anchor in a blind magazine. One day soon, I do intend to attempt the impossible & convert a mosin to a 30-06. At that time I'll attempt to convert the action to a mauser-style stagger stack, that will require milling the bottom of the receiver. I'm not sure you could do it with the x54R round. The rim makes stagger feed actions problamatic at best (though the soviets found a way with their squad level "sniper type rifles). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donmarkey Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 Never worked on one. Do they even have feed rails on the receiver or are they like the 1891 argie? Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyjim Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 the right side of the receiver works similar to the feedrails on a mauser. the interuptor pushes the cartridge against the right side of the receiver. on the blindee rimless conversions a steel plate was welded to the right side to push the cartridge more towards the center. the magwell on mauser bottom metal is to far farward to to work without a pretty massive redesign, and springfield bottom metal is even worse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustvyper Posted February 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 So I got this licked...it wasn't easy but I finally outsmarted Capt. Sergei Mosin! So basically I used the spring & follower out of a WASR-3 AK magazine (single stack mag). There were a couple of problems I was running into. -The first was there was nothing to keep the follower from popping out the top of the receiver after the last shot. I licked this by slightly widening the follower, then it was held down by the protrusion of the interupter. I had to anchor the spring to the follower with JB weld to keep it from moving when it hit the interupter, however, this spawned 2 more problems! Now, the interupter is too far down in the magazine, so it would hold the follower TOO far down & so the bolt could not pick up the final round in the magazine. PLUS, often times the rounds would jam on each other. The 54R being rimmed was the problem, if the round above's rim was BEHIND the one below it would catch. -2nd solution: To solve the problem of the interupter keeping the follower too far down, I cut a notch into the side of the follower. This allowed the follower to rise past the interupter to the correct height, then the interupter would make contact with the bottom of the notch keeping the follower & spring secured inside. -3rd solution: I studied the orginal follower & realized it ended well short of the back of the magazine well leaving a gap. The reason why became obvious. if the back of the rimmed round was resting on the follower, it pushed the round up just far enough to sometimes grab the rim of the round above it. This was an easy kill, I simply secured the follower farther up in the magazine leaving a gap the same as the orginal design. I've attached a crude illustration & I'll take several good photos once I get it all polished up. Time to press on & finish this build! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igorrock Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Has anybody ever tried to fit a Lahti-Saloranta magazine to Mosin. It feeds from middle but the rounds are in like mauser magazine. This magazine is very easy to cut shorter and then just make new upper lips to fit Mosin action. http://www.ima-usa.com/finnish-lahti-saloranta-lmg-20rnd-7-62x54r-magazine.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustvyper Posted February 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Has anybody ever tried to fit a Lahti-Saloranta magazine to Mosin. It feeds from middle but the rounds are in like mauser magazine. This magazine is very easy to cut shorter and then just make new upper lips to fit Mosin action. http://www.ima-usa.com/finnish-lahti-saloranta-lmg-20rnd-7-62x54r-magazine.html Wah! Wish they were cheaper. That might be the ticket right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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