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Input From The Stock Guys


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#1 donmarkey

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 01:48 PM

I am trying to reduce this club down to a gunstock, I thinned it out some and slimmed down the grip area. Where I'm having trouble is the transitions from the sides to the bottom and around the floorplate. I penciled in where the floorplate will be, and I know I need to get the side alittle more symetrical, but should the sides curve into the plate or into a small flat around it? I guess I should look around for some pics before going any farther. I like slim stocks, I just don't want to go too far. The other area of my concern is around the bolt sleeve, I don't like the wide shelf of some stock, but how thin can you go and radius it in.
-Don




#2 724wd

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Posted 01 July 2007 - 05:59 PM

don, i agree the stock could use some slimming. on the finer guns i've handled, and what i try to duplicate is as you describe, a noticeable "indent" if you will. the stock should, IMO, have a gentle curve to all metal parts, no flats, other than under those wings of your floorplate. i would definately trim the triggerguard and under the bolt shroud. dont worry about under the bolt shroud, but be mindful of the bolt stop position. i'll see what i can dig up for pics that show what we're talking about.
heath

#3 724wd

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Posted 02 July 2007 - 10:34 AM

ok, take a look at these and see if they help...











#4 z1r

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Posted 02 July 2007 - 02:59 PM

QUOTE(donmarkey @ Jul 1 2007, 07:48 PM) View Post
I am trying to reduce this club down to a gunstock, I thinned it out some and slimmed down the grip area. Where I'm having trouble is the transitions from the sides to the bottom and around the floorplate. I penciled in where the floorplate will be, and I know I need to get the side alittle more symetrical, but should the sides curve into the plate or into a small flat around it? I guess I should look around for some pics before going any farther. I like slim stocks, I just don't want to go too far. The other area of my concern is around the bolt sleeve, I don't like the wide shelf of some stock, but how thin can you go and radius it in.
-Don





First thing I would do is lose the whiteline spacer & grip cap. That would allow you to first off, bring the rifle into the 21st century laugh.gif . More importantly, and all joking aside, it would allow you to open the grip more. What you have going looks pretty good so far but that grip cap forces the grip closed abruptly and it is also on the big side. At least that's how it looks in the pic but I am only seeing it from one angle.

Next, slim the top of the sides of the stock to blend into the metal. Many folks simply leave this square and the result is a stock that has hard lines and appears too thick. That stock will look real nice when you are done.

Here are some pics that may help. The first shows a Commercial FN as sold by Sears (JC Higgins) on top. Note how blocky the stock is and how thick. Compare to the commercial Brno stock on the bottom which has a slimmer more graceful profile. Notice how the Brno stock starts tapering about midway on the bottom metal and the FN doesn't start tapering until around the front guard screw. Those three inches really slim up the fore end.



This next pic is of my .30-06. Excuse the poor pic but I think you can still see how the bottom edges are blended toward the bottom metal. It wears an issue Argentine guard but was inletted for another Argie guard that is fitted with a straddle floorplate that I'm currently fitting the plate to.



Here's another pic of the .30-06. It's stock was patterned off of a German sporter stock.



#5 donmarkey

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Posted 02 July 2007 - 03:54 PM

Thanks, that kind of what I had in mind, I allready ordered a grip cap and way planning on getting rid of the rosewood altogether. I was planning on cutting it right at the white line spacer and fitting the cap all the way to the rear and then tapering to it. The forarm tip is another story, I was thinking of cutting it of and then seeing if I need to put one back on or get away without one, it's real long right now. As for the sides, what I was thinking was to start to taper and round right at the rear of the ejector box and mirroring it on the other side. I don't want to do anything with the cheekpiece until I mount the scope as low as the bolt will allow and go from there. Make any sense?
-Don

#6 z1r

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Posted 02 July 2007 - 04:26 PM

QUOTE(donmarkey @ Jul 2 2007, 09:54 PM) View Post
Thanks, that kind of what I had in mind, I allready ordered a grip cap and way planning on getting rid of the rosewood altogether. I was planning on cutting it right at the white line spacer and fitting the cap all the way to the rear and then tapering to it. The forarm tip is another story, I was thinking of cutting it of and then seeing if I need to put one back on or get away without one, it's real long right now. As for the sides, what I was thinking was to start to taper and round right at the rear of the ejector box and mirroring it on the other side. I don't want to do anything with the cheekpiece until I mount the scope as low as the bolt will allow and go from there. Make any sense?
-Don


Sounds like the plan. Most stocks are too long in the fore arm. I like 8"-9". So, if yours is the typical 11"+ then you can most likely slice off the tip and go without. Or, you can get a nice piece of ebony and add it after shortening.

QUOTE(donmarkey @ Jul 2 2007, 09:54 PM) View Post
I was planning on cutting it right at the white line spacer and fitting the cap all the way to the rear and then tapering to it.



that's how I do mine when I have to use a semi inlet. Amazing how much better simply moving the cap back 1/4" can feel. There is only so much you can do but it all helps.


#7 donmarkey

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Posted 08 July 2007 - 04:11 PM

It's starting to come along, I still need to thin in out some more. But the lines are starting to come together.
-Don



#8 walnut

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Posted 08 July 2007 - 04:24 PM

Your hand work is always top notch, Don. I hope to be half as good someday.

#9 donmarkey

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 06:13 PM

I'm at a point where I need to figure out what to do with this area. I have some ideas but I would like to hear/see some more.
-Don


#10 donmarkey

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 05:23 PM

Ok, I tried to remove the rosewood forarm tip but the factory used too long of and dowel to install it. Right now it's too short and the dowel still shows. So I ordered piece of ebony. This will be a first for me so it'll be interresting.
-Don

#11 z1r

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 09:00 PM

You'll do fine. I've done the same many times. Most factory stocks have forends that are way too long. I like to shorten them all when I use a semi-inlet. If it comes with a tip that we can use, I'll cut it off, shorten the forend a couple of inches then reattach the tip. The nice thing about that it sthat it forces you to slim up the stock behind the tip which goes to show that they usually use way too much wood.

#12 911rat

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 09:19 PM

Don, you make everything look too easy. Looks great so far.


#13 donmarkey

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 02:38 PM

I got the tip on.
-Don


#14 ken98k

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 11:48 PM

It's looking pretty good Don.
I like what you've done around the bolt handle and tang.

#15 donmarkey

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Posted 26 August 2007 - 06:16 AM

QUOTE(Rem721 @ Aug 26 2007, 12:07 AM) View Post
Don, very nice job! Show us the whole profile if you don't mind.

This is the other pic I have in the computer. I'll get a pic of the other side later.
-Don


#16 walnut

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Posted 26 August 2007 - 09:20 PM

Man, that rifle is gonna be a doll when it's checkered. What kind of finish is in store for it? A half teaspoon of linseed oil once a week till spring should keep you out of trouble! I like the shape of the tip. It's got a kind of British style.

#17 bilurey

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Posted 27 August 2007 - 02:14 AM

Your camera work is supurb! Really helps us see the great way the stock is developing. I like to remove the ejector box then insure that the top edges of the stock are of equal width from fore end tip back to the point where the ejector box is positioned. Many stocks simply ignore the extra width of wood if it is finished flush with the bottom of the ejector box, which leaves the left side of the stock much thicker than the right side. If the wood is thinned equally back to this point, then widened to cover the bottom of the ejector box, it leaves the ejector box sitting on a shelf which is then gracefully blended back into the left side beneath the ejector box. A little tricky the first time, but, very rewarding when properly done.

Overall, I found the easiest way to get a nice stock is to keep a model of a particular stock you like on hand. I like some of the lines in the grip area of Husqvarna stocks, also original Mauser sporting stocks, G&H, and other professional designs. I collect catalogs, pictures, Gun Digest custom rifle features, ect. The beautiful pictures by 742wd are exceptional examples.

I have little artistic ability, but, I learned to copy rather well. I actually use protractors on pics to get exact dimensions which are then blown up or down on 1/8th inch lined squared paper. The difference between beauty and mediocrity of line can be amazingly tiny. We can all easily distinguish the face of a beautiful woman from that of of an average woman's face. But, try to alter the average face to one of beauty and the difficulty becomes immediately appearent, so, copy beauty with very close attention to exacting detail. It's now getting difficult for me to pick up and hold a rifle any more, much less work on one. I finally began buying unfinished, or poorly finished project rifles, actions, stocks, ect. and trimmed them up as this really reduced the amount of work involved. But even that is getting beyond me. My beloved spouse, Spousasauris, recently asked why my mouth didn't get weaker like the rest of me. Such a caring person, noticing all the small details of my condition. Bill

#18 donmarkey

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Posted 02 September 2007 - 08:48 PM

It might sound dumb, or maybe I had too many Labatts tonight. But I'm thinking of getting rid of the rollover and go for a more traditional type of lines. Of course I'm waiting for the scope (Leupold vx2-compact) to arrive before I cut the comb to low. Waiting until Weds of Thurs for the scope to arrive is killing me. Why is it that the farther along in a project you get the more impatient you get?
-Don

#19 z1r

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Posted 02 September 2007 - 11:31 PM

Don,

It wasn't until a couple of days ago that I noticed the rollover. If it were mine, that would have bene the first thing gone. It seems to me that all you have tried to do to date has been along the lines of following an older more traditional styling. With that in mind, the rollover doesn't really fit. However, as far as rollovers go, I must admit, that one is very unobtrusive. Your rifle, do what makes you happy. Nice thing about having your abilities is that you can leave the rollover, try it, and if you change your mind, remove it later.

QUOTE
Why is it that the farther along in a project you get the more impatient you get?
-Don


Because, if you're like me, it's taken you two years to get to this point, lol.

Didi your package arrive?

#20 bilurey

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 03:14 PM

Don, I agree with Z about the comb rollover. I have an '03 Sprngfld stock I bought because I like the way it raised the comb line for a scope while maintaining the classic look of the stock by simply blending it into the curve of the stock on the offside of the cheekpiece, no curl or crashing wave effect.

Jerry Fisher once did a freehand drawing of a stock which showed the shape of the forend as a series of circles all the way back to the rear face of the receiver ring. The top of the stock simply had a longitudinal slice remove to reveal the top half of the barreled action. A similar slice began at he front of the TG tang and ended at the rear tang. From the rear face of the rear receiver ring, thru the complete buttstock, the circles rapidly became ovals. This produces a smooth but somewhat thicker stock than the design used by Husqvarna which is about as slender as a stock can be reasonably made.

Most classic stocks begin slenderising, at the point where the fore end meets a vertical line between the front end of the barrel reinforce down to the foorward tip of the magazine floorplate, by flattening the sides of the stock into elongated ovals. The ovals become more rounded from a verticle line behind the rear face of the rear receiver ring to the front face of the trigger guard bow. This ends the flatness of the stock thru the action area, where extra wood is necessary as it is the thinnest wood depth in the stock. The pistol grip is rounded gradually blend into the long slender oval cross sections of the butt stock.

The beautiful pics above show several ways of running the lines blending the ovals of the action area into the more rounded and smaller ovals of the pistol grip and then blended gradually into the buttstock. The pistol grip area is the primary point at which a stock is judged from being ugly to beautiful. Most mass produced commercial stocks simply blend these curves into the stock while a real custom stock very clearly define the lines where the butt of the stock is reduced to a pistol grip and then enlarged to accomodate the action mortise. I used to study these lines, then draw them on the stock with a soft lead pencil, experimenting with different curves until I knew exactly where and how much wood to cut. I used swiss files to blend the lines into the cuts while keeping the lines distinct. I didn't begin by examining close up pics of beautiful stocks, I gradually learned to do things because it reduced the laughter of others when I showed my work. Much easier to study the pics and practice on an unfinished stock than to have your friends do a Mexican Hat Dance on your ego. Bill




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