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Carcano Sporter


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#1 48mauser

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Posted 22 November 2006 - 04:20 PM

Has anyone done a Carcano sporter project? What would be a good caliber for it and are there any difficulties or problems using this action? Thanks, Paul P.

#2 AzRednek

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Posted 22 November 2006 - 05:39 PM

QUOTE(48mauser @ Nov 22 2006, 10:20 PM) View Post

Has anyone done a Carcano sporter project? What would be a good caliber for it and are there any difficulties or problems using this action? Thanks, Paul P.


The clip fed mag would be a nightmare to sportorize with anything other than the original 6.5. If you by chance have one in 8MM DON'T SHOOT IT if you enjoy life and your eyesight.


#3 riceone

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Posted 22 November 2006 - 07:01 PM

[attachmentid=282][attachmentid=281][attachmentid=280][attachmentid=283]Here is one done by a guy I know, Ralph Huffacre, I've kept these photo for just such a time as this. Proof that you can make a beautiful rifle out of most anything. riceone

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#4 AzRednek

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Posted 22 November 2006 - 07:22 PM

That is indeed a real beauty. Have any idea of what he did with the mag? I assume from the looks of the floor plate he fit a non Carcano magazine assembly. Is it possibly a single shot? I've got an original 6.5 Carcano military stock I would like to trade for a real sporter (not cut downmil-surp) in case anybody is interested in restoring one.


#5 Kyle

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Posted 22 November 2006 - 07:29 PM

Thats a very cool looking rifle. Some of the problems faced with building a carcano sporter are also prescent on the Gew 88 project I'm working on (both mannlicher type rifles). The bolt on my Gew 88 will probably look very similar.

As far as the problem of the enbloc clips, I work with CNC machines so I plan on milling a small notch on the side of the receiver and building a clip retainer with a spring to hold the cartridges in and make it feed reliably without the clips. Or you could just use an LER scope mounted further forward as to allow loading with the clips and you wouldn't have to mess with the bolt handle.

I don't think a project with a Type 1 Carcano is really the same though as it was build specifically for the Japanese navy just before WWII and it is a different design then most carcanos and I believe has many features found on the Arisaka. I don't even know if it even feeds with clips originally.

#6 Doble Troble

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Posted 22 November 2006 - 07:36 PM

Wow, that was a nice Carcano, riceone.

If I were going to do one I'd keep it in the original 6.5 mm chambering. It's very well documented to effectively kill large mammals.

#7 riceone

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Posted 22 November 2006 - 09:09 PM

That being a Type I the floor plate assembly was already there. But the action is the same. I don't see why you could not mill the bottom of the Carcano and attach a Mauser of some type on the bottom like the Type I. If my memory serves me right he made the 20 - 30 years back and still has it. Last time I heard from him he had recently shot it and was very accurate. I have a 257 sporter on a T38 action. riceone.

#8 48mauser

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Posted 23 November 2006 - 01:14 PM

I was refering to the Italian Carcano. I have a couple and was wondering if it would be feasable to build one in .35 Remmington? Azredneck what is the problem with 8mm? Would it be suitable for the .35 remington? I would probably go with some type of detatchable magazine.

#9 FC

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Posted 23 November 2006 - 09:08 PM

I just scanned a Carcano article that addressed sporterizing a little bit. Email me your regular email address if you want the article.

#10 gun nutty

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Posted 23 November 2006 - 09:37 PM

I've thought about this before...

The rim diameter of the 7.62x39 and the 6.5 Italian round are VERY close.

Would it be possible to "chop" an M16 or AK mag, open-up the underside of the receiver for the magazine feed-lips, and chamber the barrel for 7.62x39?

The M16 mag seems an ideal candidate, as its upper section is straight for insertion into the long M16 mag opening. Shortening the mag to 5 rounds and using the existing follower and spring would do nicely.


#11 AzRednek

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Posted 23 November 2006 - 10:17 PM

QUOTE(48mauser @ Nov 23 2006, 07:14 PM) View Post

Azredneck what is the problem with 8mm?


Years ago there were numerous warnings being published in gun rags not to shoot the 8MM Carcano. The 8MM is over the pressure limit of the Carcano. Best I recall the warning also warned against using the lower pressure USA made ammo. If you have or come across a 8MM Carcano I imagine there is some collectability as with all WW2 goods. The 8MM Carcano being some what of an oddity it should get a good price especially if it is in virginal condition.

#12 48mauser

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Posted 23 November 2006 - 10:36 PM

FC, email sent. Gun nutty, that was pretty much what I was thinking. An AK mag shortened to be flush would slick up the bottom metal as long as you could get it to feed. Azredneck, I had heard something along those lines also. That was why I was thinking along the lines of the .35 Remington. Do you think it would be a problem to convert the 8mm to .35 Remington or possibly 7mm Mauser or .257 Roberts? I have an 8mm Carcano with a real bad barrel. Thanks for the replies,Paul P.

#13 gun nutty

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Posted 24 November 2006 - 04:24 AM

Isn't the COL of the 35 Rem longer than the 7.62x39? You'd need to extend the front of the magazine to get the .35 to fit.

IF the gun has no collector value and IF you can lengthen AK magazine and IF you can handle the odd (left-hand) receiver thread, this might be do-able.


#14 48mauser

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Posted 24 November 2006 - 12:33 PM

Gun nutty, yeah it looks like the COL for the Rem .35 is 2.525, the 7.62x39 is 2.200 so some mag rework would be necessary but it does'nt look impossible. I had even considered a blind well magazine to help keep it light weight and smooth.
I had thought about the 7.62x39 but was concerned about the pressures. My thoughts were to pick up a surplus SKS barrel and drill the Carcano barrel stub to solder the SKS barrel inside. What do you guys think? It would make for a light weight compact economical to shoot bolt action. Thanks, Paul P.

#15 gun nutty

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Posted 24 November 2006 - 01:03 PM

The 7.62x39 data in my Hornady manual does not exceed 45k CUP. That should be well within the usable range of the Carcano..

http://www.gunboards...?TOPIC_ID=15683

The only issue I'd be concerned with is the twist-rate. With the relatively light bullets used in the 7.62x39, a 1-in-10 twist is too fast. I've seen many disappointing accuracy tests with the 'x39 (even in bolt rifles), and I've always wondered if using a 1-in-14 twist would be a better option. The Parker-Hale pull barrels were 1-in-15, whick would be just about perfect for the 'x39.

#16 Kyle

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Posted 24 November 2006 - 01:27 PM

I actually once saw an artical where an Italian Carcano carbine (Model 38 I think) was converted to 7.62x39 and it used AK mags. It was pretty cool and apparently worked very well.

To tell you guys the truth the 8mm Carcanos don't really have much collector value. I was interested in getting one for a while and I watched the online gun auctions and most sold around $150. Carcano collectors believe that the conversions were not even done during WWII but instead after the war in an attempt to make them more attractive to potential buyers like Isreal and the surrounding Arab states in need of weapons at the time. If I had one with a really cruddy barrel I wouldn't think twice about attempting some sort of project with it.

#17 Horsefly

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Posted 25 November 2006 - 06:43 AM

I've been messing with and reading about guns for 40 years,and shooting them longer than that,and all I've read for all these years was don't jack with Carcano's.They're one of the weakest actions.Them being used to kill large mammals around Dallas has always soured me against them too.If I was going to do a Carcano,I'd do it in .257 Bob or 7x57.You guys be careful,do a bunch of research so as not to get hurt or spend a bunch of bread on a gun that maybe iffy,when you could have started with a VZ24 or K.KALE for the same money and not have to worry about your grandkids someday hot-rodding some reloads and blinding them or blowing half their head off.Sorry to sound like an old mother hen,Jerry.

#18 AzRednek

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Posted 25 November 2006 - 09:49 AM

Jerry, I couldn't have said it better myself!!


#19 fritz

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Posted 26 November 2006 - 10:36 PM

Jerry,

Do you really believe that it was the carcano that did it?

Maybe so, but there had to be a backup rifle. Remember the fellow on the knoll, he had a better shot angle. But that is all history now, and the carcano in question is not for sale.

The little pistol that did in Lee Harvey Oswald did sell. It was returned to the family (they don't do that nowadays). At least we know who shot Lee.

It has been so long, I have forgotten who shot JR. Dallas has a legacy all it's own. Unless you are a Texan, it may be hard to comprehend the way the Dallas police force does things.

Even to this day.

BTW, I have one of those carcanos that I did a chop job on in the late 60s, and it was a poor performer (to say the least). It resides in an unlocked building along with some of my other items that are going to have to be disposed of someday. But it's the only firearm in that building, the rest of the junk is just as worthless.
If you have an unaltered one, keep it so. Someone may want, someday, the rifle that did in a president.

But don't lie.

fritz

#20 Horsefly

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Posted 27 November 2006 - 05:14 AM

I don't believe Oswald and the Carcano acted alone at all,but it was part of the scheme and a rifle name I recognized more than Mauser for lots of years. Jerry




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