The Glorious Mini-lathe

[Doble Troble]

I didn't want to hijack Horsefly's post, but DJ wanted more mini-lathe info - which I LOVE to provide.

 

Here's my mini-lathe set-up. The top is the entire machine, the second row are useful modifications - a spider (essential) and an extended bed (the red section of bed attached to the original blue - very useful). The last row are some pix of a Rem 700 barrel set-up and being faced prior to threading for a Turk.

 

What can you do with a mini-lathe? A better question is what can't you do. My answer would be that you can't work on BIG parts (Although you'd be surprised how big of things I've had spinning on it - unfortunately my front brake rotors are out.

 

I also can't work on anything of bigger diameter than military and sporter contour barrels - I can only get 0.8" through the headstock for threading and chambering. Even with the extended bed its a bit sketchy trying to do too much between centers. I've still gotten a lot of real chambering, profiling and muzzle work done on this little machine. I would like to be able to work on the Parker-Hale 308 bull barrels. I've thought about reducing the diameter of one of these between centers to 0.8" - this would also serve to get rid of external pits that the examples I have have. But this kind-of takes the "bull" out of the barrel - and who wants a "cow" barrel.

 

It did take me a while to start being productive with the mini-lathe. You will have to modify and adjust it for it to be really useful (e.g. the spider mod above). I would consider it a project unto itself for the first 6 mos or so of really trying to use it. After that it will be a treasured machine and essential component of your shop.

 

As a testament to the accuracy of the work you can do with a mini-lathe, my almost year long obsession with making wild cats and my own chambering reamers - all the reamers I made (dozens) were profiled on the mini-lathe. Some of that work is documented here. It was after making a few precisely tapered chambering reamers that I really began to feel confident in my ability to use this little machine effectively.

 

I love the little beast (sniff)!

 

[drjerry1st]

 

That's what I'm talking about!

Can you adapt an arbor from brownell's or midway and work on the actions?

J

[z1r]

That's what I'm talking about!

Can you adapt an arbor from brownell's or midway and work on the actions?

J

 

With your own lathe you can make your own. That's step one in gunsmithing school. Start by making the tools. they teach you all the crucial steps needed.

[Doble Troble]

J,

 

Yes, you can adapt the Midway and Brownell's tools, but as Z points-out it's more educational to make your own.

 

I think making tools first, doing gunsmithing second is very smart. When you've learned enough to make functional tools you'll have the foundation to start solving real problems (and bar stock, although not cheap, is still cheaper than rifle barrels).

 

I modified a Wheeler small ring receiver mandrel and made one for the large ring Mausers.

[Horsefly]

Would it be possible to buy a lathe,and all the instuction books I can find and maybe the AGI CD and learn to use it good enough to do barrel threading and tapering,and all the other stuff needed to work on guns? I have no one to teach me and a night course is not an option because of my job.Hearing the lingo you cats use when talking about your lathe projects scares the crap outa me.Jerry

[z1r]

Jerry, if I can do it, you can!

 

I think I have some pdf copies of some lathe instruction books.

Biggest thing is to get a lathe, it's all downhill from there. You do that and there are tons of folks here to answer questions you may have.

 

[donmarkey]

Jerry,

You can rent all kinds of lathe and mill videos along with lots of gunsmithing tape from these people.

http://smartflix.com/index.php?main_page=index

It's cheaper than buying alot of books and tapes.

-Don

[Doble Troble]

Horsefly,

 

People learn differently, but I'm with Z, if I can do it so can you! Just get one.

 

Everything I know (which I don't consider too much, but enough to put some accurate rifles together) has come from the internet, this board, mini-lathe.com, Steve Wagner's excellent Turk site, and of all things what convinced me to buy my own just for kicks was Varmint Al's website which I haven't visited in a long time and I hope is still there. The info you need is at hand.

 

There's something about the lathe that is internally instructive. After trying to use it for a little while you quit fighting it and see how really simple it is and how it works. Then you realize how to adjust and tune it so that it works perfectly - this is what I mean by it becomes a project in itself - you get to know it and its "personality" and what it can do and what it doesn't like to do - and most importantly what you can persuade it to do when everything is just right.

After that you and the lathe become kind-of a team of problem solvers. You need to make something, you know what the lathe needs in-terms of set-up to do it, and you and the lathe get the job done.

 

I don't want to imply that these little machines can take the place of "real" lathes. But I do believe that I am MUCH better off for having figured-out how to use this little one before going to a big one - which I will someday (as soon as I can figure-out how to get a big one in the basement).

 

After I do I'm sure that I will still do a lot of the little work on this little machine that I've gotten to know so well.

[AlaFan92]

Doble:

 

Like you, I also like my little mini-lathe. It was the only thing I could afford, and I have learned a lot with it. I just finished my first sporter, pictures of which I plan on posting soon. I recommend that anyone who has an interest should take the plunge. They are certainly capable of handling military and light sporter contour barrels for facing and rethreading.

 

With that said, how did you go about adding the extended bed? It seems like I saw a post about doing that awhile back on some other site, but I can't remember where. It seems to me that it would be difficult to ensure that the ways are aligned properly, much less getting the leadscrew to work. I might be interested in taking on the project if it isn't too terribly difficult. Any thoughts? Also, have you made a milling attachment for it yet? I was thinking that might be an interesting project as well.

 

AE

 

Jerry:

 

If you can afford one of the mini-lathes, go for it! Just be prepared to spend nearly as much again on tooling as you spent on the lathe. I bought the Cummins version since it was the only one available at the time, but I would have picked up the Homier version if it had been in stock.

 

Like you, I knew nothing about lathes when I decided to purchase mine. I rented one of the Jose Rodriguez mini-lathe videos from smartflix (it was called technical video rentals at the time) and off I went. My first real project was turning a small ring mauser receiver facing mandrel from 1" bar. It turned out pretty well for a first timer. My next project was making a spider for the headstock to assist in truing up my barrels. It was a little more difficult since I had to turn internal metric threads, but it still turned out great.

 

If you have a technical bent at all (which you probably do if you are interested in this site) you'll probably pick things up pretty quickly. I am certainly no expert, but it sure has been fun learning.

 

AE

[Doble Troble]

AE,

 

I got the idea for the extension from a website that I can't track down right now - it was probably the same site that you've seen.

 

Extending the lead screw was the easy part, the extra bed comes with an extra screw so I just bored it (using the mini-lathe -isn't it kewl! - it modifies itself) to accept the end of the original one and epoxied them together using the lead screw clamp to keep them timed. The replacement bed was an 8 x 12" from little machine shop. I cut the head stock mounting area off - probably about 4 " on my cheap band saw. I faced the cut on my mini-mill (hench no milling attachment on the lathe). Mating the original bed to the extension was tricky, and the result isn't perfect. I can "feel" the saddle catch the interface. It doesn't work for finishing cuts using the drive and saddle - there's a bit of a "bump". I think the only way to do it right would be to weld on an oversized extension and regrind the ways. That said, it still works well for roughing and the real advantage is being able to turn a long barrel between centers - you can file/sand off any irregularities.

 

When I did this it was the only way to turn a rifle barrel between centers. Little machine shop now carries a replacement 14" bed which I would have probably gone with instead of the extension. Extending the bed was definitely a PITA, but it has been very useful, even though it's not perfect.

[drjerry1st]

How are you guys making the arbor? a rod or round bar large enough won't fit in the spindle and between centers seems to short...and how would you turn it down between centers using a lathe dog?

Now I have exposed my ignorance! It clearly is possible as you guys have done it but I can't figure out how you did it...but then again, I have no lathe or experience and just the faintest glimmer of intelligence...12 hour days, the family home for the holidays, and my first scotch of the evening may have something to do with it! However I await enlightenment, hopefully you will use something other than a BFHammer!

J

[AlaFan92]

Doble:

 

Thanks for the information. I might look into doing the lathe bed extension if my wife will let me back in to the garage any time soon! It looks like a big project, so I'd better save up my brownie points.

 

DJ:

 

By "arbor" I assume you mean the mandrel for facing off the receiver. I did it, but it was a tough for my first project.

 

As I recall, I cut a 1" cold rolled steel bar off to about 10 inches or so, which is about the bare minimum that would work with the length of the receiver. I chucked one end of the bar in a four-jaw chuck, set up a steady rest, dialed it in, and center drilled the far end. I then used a dead center in the tailstock and turned down the far end to about .700. Then I reversed the process and turned down the other end, leaving around .600 in length about 2/3rds of the way down the mandrel at the major diameter of the small ring threads. Finally, I threaded this area to screw in to the receiver. It looks like the Brownells receiver facing mandrel, just shorter.

 

I'm sure this would have been much easier and more accurate on a larger lathe, but all I had available was the mini-lathe. The mandel seems to work ok, however, since I am able to get about 1" groups from the rifle I built (using the original Turk barrel cut down to 24" and crowned on the lathe).

 

My next step is to build one for a large ring receiver. The only downside is that it takes a long time to reduce the diameter of the mandrel down to .700 or so on one of these small lathes.

 

Hope that helps,

 

AE

[Doble Troble]

DJ,

 

Here's a pic of the large ring mandrel that I made on my mini-lathe.

 

 

As you can see its about 12" long. I don't remember if I used the extension on my ML or not. I don't think so because I think I made it prior to the extension. I also don't remember exactly how I made it - but I can tell I was in a hurry - but there's nothing wrong with it and it works well. Let's see if I can do a little CSI and reconstruct...

 

It's made out of 1.25" aluminum round stock. I'd used this piece for something else because of the large diameter threads, I don't remember exactly what, I think it may have been an optics adapter that didn't work out, or I could have been just practicing cutting threads.

 

The small threaded portion is ~ 1.10" at the peaks of the threads. The more nicely finished shank is 0.7". It screws nicely into a large ring receiver with plenty of room to machine the ring when the unthreaded portion is held by a 4-jaw chuck.

 

This is an example of a crude, but effective tool that can be made on the mini-lathe. This didn't need to be as long as it is, but I suspect that there might be trouble doing it on an 8 x 10. There are ways to work around this, and part of the mini-lathe experience is learning to work around limitations. I would recommend getting an 8 x 12 model, and don't forget that you can upgrade it to 14" ways with a replacement bed.

[drjerry1st]

That makes sense, but turning the mandrel (thanks for the terminology lesson...You will see me make many of those mistakes...entirely new terminology to me) around requires having the lathe set up really well....right? For accuracy? Hey, I'm learning!

And thanks to you and others for that...I love this learning thing,

J

 

Oh another thing, The original Homier model had a few diffent features than the newer ones...does it really matter? I could wait on one on ebay or just go ahead and make the plunge....your thoughts?

J

 

DJ,

 

Here's a pic of the large ring mandrel that I made on my mini-lathe.

 

 

As you can see its about 12" long. I don't remember if I used the extension on my ML or not. I don't think so because I think I made it prior to the extension. I also don't remember exactly how I made it - but I can tell I was in a hurry - but there's nothing wrong with it and it works well. Let's see if I can do a little CSI and reconstruct...

 

It's made out of 1.25" aluminum round stock. I'd used this piece for something else because of the large diameter threads, I don't remember exactly what, I think it may have been an optics adapter that didn't work out, or I could have been just practicing cutting threads.

 

The small threaded portion is ~ 1.10" at the peaks of the threads. The more nicely finished shank is 0.7". It screws nicely into a large ring receiver with plenty of room to machine the ring when the unthreaded portion is held by a 4-jaw chuck.

 

This is an example of a crude, but effective tool that can be made on the mini-lathe. This didn't need to be as long as it is, but I suspect that there might be trouble doing it on an 8 x 10. There are ways to work around this, and part of the mini-lathe experience is learning to work around limitations. I would recommend getting an 8 x 12 model, and don't forget that you can upgrade it to 14" ways with a replacement bed.

 

 

DJ,

 

Here's a pic of the large ring mandrel that I made on my mini-lathe.

 

 

As you can see its about 12" long. I don't remember if I used the extension on my ML or not. I don't think so because I think I made it prior to the extension. I also don't remember exactly how I made it - but I can tell I was in a hurry - but there's nothing wrong with it and it works well. Let's see if I can do a little CSI and reconstruct...

 

It's made out of 1.25" aluminum round stock. I'd used this piece for something else because of the large diameter threads, I don't remember exactly what, I think it may have been an optics adapter that didn't work out, or I could have been just practicing cutting threads.

 

The small threaded portion is ~ 1.10" at the peaks of the threads. The more nicely finished shank is 0.7". It screws nicely into a large ring receiver with plenty of room to machine the ring when the unthreaded portion is held by a 4-jaw chuck.

 

This is an example of a crude, but effective tool that can be made on the mini-lathe. This didn't need to be as long as it is, but I suspect that there might be trouble doing it on an 8 x 10. There are ways to work around this, and part of the mini-lathe experience is learning to work around limitations. I would recommend getting an 8 x 12 model, and don't forget that you can upgrade it to 14" ways with a replacement bed.

 

So, using aluminum is possible...kewl as the young folks would say. Reckon there is enough interest for a new category about how to use these little lathes for what we are doing...gun stuff? There seems to be some interest. The cost is probably less than a really nice, well done rifle including all the paraphenalia. I just spent a small fortune outfitting my little nephew with a decent riftle to begin deer hunting with and it was a weatherby vangaurd...it cost a lot to buy a gun, bases, rings, scope, lens covers, sling, ammo and on and on. So buying and outfitting one of these little toys seems to be about the same committment as one decent gun to me. And just thing of the possibilities,

J

[Doble Troble]

PLUNGE!

 

Regarding the accuracy, the real secret of a lathe is that it turns the part. Facing can't help but be true. Cutting mandrels does depend on the ways being straight, but if the saddle will travel tight then the ways must be straight. Problems with accuracy with these machines come from not having the gibbs properly adjusted. Crap, gibbs, another arcane term - but it just refers to the VERY simple devises that keep the saddle and tool rest firmly attached. If the attachment isn't firm enough (if the gibbs are loose) you'll get evil chatter when cutting and poor surface finish. If they're too tight it's hard to move things when cutting and you'll increase wear.

 

I remember when thinking about all of these things that I didn't have the experience to understand. They really aren't that complicated once you deal with them. And once you have them dialed in its hard to desribe the feeling of making your first precisely machined part - its a small miracle!

 

And you're absolutely right about it costing about as much as a new firearm - this is how I justified it to myself when purchasing my mini-lathe: "I really want an accurate rifle, the ones I have are OK, I've had some work done on them by "gunsmiths" and they if more problems aren't created, the old ones still tend to be there. Should I buy a Sendero, or is there a way that I can try to improve what I have myself...hmmm Varmint Al seems to be doing some interesting things...maybe I need a minilathe more than a Sendero"?

 

This was several years ago now, but I can tell you that you couldn't give me a Sendero today (not that there's anything wrong with Senderos - I just don't need one now - I can make my own accurate rifles [and a lot of other cool stuff]).

[ken98k]

Horsefly,

 

People learn differently, but I'm with Z, if I can do it so can you! Just get one.

 

I just did my first lathe work christmas day. I re-contoured a small ring 7mm.

Came out kind of rough (spiraled, sort of like super fine threads) but smoothed it up with a flat file.

Kenny

 

[Doble Troble]

You go, Kenak!

 

It sounds like your gibbss may be a bit loose, or you're feeding too fast, or you're taking too much off too fast, or you're not using enough lube...but what ever it is you'll get it figured-out, and the magic of the lathe is that it can't help but turn true and so you can always file/sand out imperfections.

[ken98k]

Yesterday I used my lathe to true some parts on my belt/disc sander.

I can't imagine how I ever got along without a lathe!

I can wholeheartedly recomend that anyone considering getting a lathe take the plunge.

Kenny

[cold shot]

doble troble- Iwould like to know how big a dia. barrel will fit for turning down. would a bull barrel blank fit? where did you get your mini lathe? I might be interested in purchasing one! DAVE

[Doble Troble]

Dave,

 

The spec for the headstock spindle diameter is 0.75", but I found that I could get a bit more through it unmodified.

 

I have since reamed it so that I can get 0.8" through now - so about a medium sporter is all I can easily work on with it.

 

That said I'm very happy to have it!

 

I got mine from Homier when they rolled through town a few years ago. They have the best price (I suspect that all of the 7 x 10 and 7 x 12 minilathes sold by various companies are the same things painted different colors). Another Homier advantage is that you can pick it up there - no waiting or shipping. They usually have one or two at each stop, so its important to be there when they open.