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Trigger Recomendation


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#1 aplaceinspace

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Posted 17 July 2008 - 09:31 PM

I've been gradually peicing together a mauser target rifle for years, I actually had z1r do the action work for me last year, and my stock is due in from McMillan in early september.

So I ask you all, what trigger would you recomend for a seriouse paper puncher? Timneys look like they'd be OK, but I've started looking at Jard lately. Is there any noticable difference in performance between the two?

I currently have an original parker hale trigger like this one:

http://www.hoosiergu...s/ph_safety.jpg

The way it mounts to the rifle worries me a little, using the action screw to pinch the tang of the trigger between the receiver and the stock. Since I am planning on pillar and glass bedding this rifle I would think that this trigger system would actually degrade the effect of the bedding considerably, and I can't think of a decent way to modify it to make it mount in a more conventional method.

So I ask you all, what do you recomend? Other than Timney and Jard, are there any other alternatives that you would look into? I can't say that money is no object, but I plan on doing this thing right, so by all means, suggest away.

#2 Tentman

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 03:41 AM

My 5 cents worth . .. .,

There are a lot of Parker Hale triggers in this neck of the woods (being the down-under colonials) and I have had several, the rifles invariably shoot better with them removed and the bedding redone - sort of chicken and egg but they are not easy to bed "right" IMO.

I have a very expensive locally made target trigger on a 98, easily the best I've ever handled . . . but the second best (and superior to a Reknagel or NECG that I have) is a very well tuned standard military trigger. It is still two stage, but thats not a big deal for a target rifle. The second stage of a mauser is very little work to tune to a 2 1/2 lb pull that is very sweet. There are plenty of sites that describe how, sometimes they leave out a fairly important step IMO, and that is to have several triggers and sears, and do some mixing and matching after you have polished them all. Ofter very little extra is required.

Cheers


#3 Spiris

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 08:55 AM

Being the frugal guy that I am, I have used nothing but Bold triggers on all my conversions. That's four, with one being a side safety model on my 270 Win. with Remington barrel on a Turk action because the used stock that I bought had the slot for it. Only one had a tiny bit of creep which I had to adjust. All my Mausers have scope offset positive lock safeties for the firing pin, the budget type with standard shrouds. I have been very pleased with performance of the Bold triggers. For those who can afford the high priced trigger units, I'm sure you'll be happy too.

Spiris

#4 AzRednek

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 11:00 AM

I'm partial to Timney because it is a local industry and last time I was there I didn't see any illegals working there. Timney wont give walk-ins a price break but if I go in with a rifle they install and adjust it for the price of the trigger. The Parker Hale trigger looks just the ones I've removed from Santa Barbara actions. I wouldn't be surprised if the triggers didn't come out of the same factory.

#5 z1r

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 07:38 PM

QUOTE (AzRednek @ Jul 18 2008, 11:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm partial to Timney because it is a local industry and last time I was there I didn't see any illegals working there. Timney wont give walk-ins a price break but if I go in with a rifle they install and adjust it for the price of the trigger. The Parker Hale trigger looks just the ones I've removed from Santa Barbara actions. I wouldn't be surprised if the triggers didn't come out of the same factory.


Even the Timney Sportsman is a very good trigger. I'm not saying others aren't but 95% of the aftermarket triggers I've used have been Timneys.


#6 carzngunz

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 09:33 PM

I vote with z1r.
I prefer the Timney Sportsman over the Bold and many others that I have tried. I have recently aquired a Timney Featherweight for a tactical/target rifle that I am just getting started on. I have a couple of these and like them very much. I have used several of the Bold triggers but I like the Timney better. It may just be in my head but I would spend the extra couple of dollars for the Timney. I would probably save my money on the more expensive triggers to buy other parts!

#7 Horsefly

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Posted 19 July 2008 - 05:32 AM

I have 3 Bolds and 2 Timney's,and am so pleased with both,I have no preference.I don't like the notch in the stock it takes for my side safety,but it really works well. Jerry

#8 strait shooter

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Posted 19 July 2008 - 09:48 AM

Howdy, guess I'll throw my 3.5 cents worth too. The timneys are great but my budget said otherwise,so I bought a bold optima,w/side saftey. It is adjusted to a nice 2.5lb pull with no creeping. I have shot rifles with timney and the pull was nice
and crisp..It's goin to be your choice, I would try to shoot as many rifles with different triggers as you to get the feel of each.
My hunting rifle has a modified mil trigger.It works just fine. If you are building a target rifle then I would change out to an aftermarket one. This is just one opinion of many...Dave

#9 aplaceinspace

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 12:16 AM

Thanks for all the recomendations, guys. I think I'll be going with the Timney featherweight delux.

One quick question on the different model #'s for the FWD.

They list FD M98FN #301 and FD M98K #302 on the Timney site. Which would be appropriate for my receiver (Santa barbara M98) and why? I read in the descriptions for the same product over on brownell's website that it has to do with the trigger guard?



#10 donmarkey

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 05:20 AM

The fn, the 98k has the trigger moved forward to work in the short guard bows. Unless of course you have a guard with the short bow. The fn will sit nicely to the rear of the bow in a 1909 guard for example.
-Don

#11 aplaceinspace

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 10:04 AM

So the trigger bow that the M98k is supposed to fit is smaller in size? I couldn't find any info on google about smaller trigger bows, but what is the standard size? My trigger guard came from a mixed lot of parts from ebay. The follower and floorplate release button both have waffenampts, but the guard itself does not. My trigger guard measures approximately 2 inches across on the inside.

#12 donmarkey

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Posted 21 July 2008 - 03:16 PM

Here's how the fn sit in a 1909



Here's the different bows



#13 aplaceinspace

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Posted 21 July 2008 - 10:10 PM

I see. Thanks for posting the pics to help me see the difference.

#14 BradD

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 08:19 PM

ap,

I did a post on this a few months ago, but will reiterate (it's in "Triggers" or something like that).

Until a couple years ago Timney made about four different triggers to accommodate Mauser variants (K, Siamese, M-98, Commercial). Then the engineers or the bean counters got creative and developed a one-size-fits-all FD. Good idea, except it doesn't.

The K is still the K, you don't need it unless you are doing something with a 95/93. I always put hinged 95 tg's on my Mexicans, so I need the K even though it's a 98.

However, just today I mailed four of the 301's back to Timney. Not one of them works on any commercial Mauser I have, regardless of brand. They either slam fiire or lock up when you try to open the bolt after firing.

The problem, according to them, is that the one-size-fits-all sear is too low. So if you send your trigger to them they will put a higher one in that works. They are a good outfit and make great triggers. They will do as they say and not charge you for it. Just keep in mind it is a pain to mail it to them and adds to the cost and you have a wait.

I still endorse them highly, but I sure wish they would rethink this.

Brad

#15 BradD

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 12:05 PM

I received my triggers that I mentioned above. I mailed them to Timney on August 4, they mailed the repaired triggers back to me on August 8. I got them on August 11. That is pretty impressive attention to business and fast turn around for me.

All function flawlessly now, except in one FN action the bolt drags a bit on the high sear. Everything else I tried was fine.

They designate it as the Model 301/A.

Brad

#16 aplaceinspace

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Posted 26 August 2008 - 10:35 AM

I have my trigger from them, but in the preocess of "gently bending" the safety plate to make it fit I broke off the lever. I emailed timney that day to let them know about the problem and within a few hours they had responded saying that they would replace the broken part. I sent them my trigger info and address. That was back at the begining of the month. Still haven't received anything or heard back from them.

Other than the safety plate issue its a nice trigger.

#17 bilurey

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Posted 04 September 2008 - 11:59 AM

The PH trigger shown requires a special cocking piece which has a flat, uncut, bottom on it's foot. This lack of a cut holds down the sear after firing and during the initial opening stroke. These cocking pieces are very difficult to find, and very expensive when available. I fit a piece of scrap into the cut-out in the bottom of the foot of a standard M98 cocking piece, as an alternative to holding the trigger completely to the rear when recocking the bolt after firing, which is a real pain. Also, glass bedding is very tricky in the rear tang when using this trigger.

The older Timney's worked very well, although the Kar98a requires a special unit due to the trigger being mounted closer to the magazine.

The old, Dayton Traistor all-steel triggers are hard to beat but may be difficult to find. These may only require inletting at the ends as they are very narrow.

The Canjar works well and has been a favorite of target shooters for decades.

The Bold Premium and Optium side-safeties work well on M98s and K98s, but, don't mistakenly get the small ring Mauser model as the small ring models are of different dimensions.

I have a Gew98 I had put togather by a master gunsmith using an '03 Sprngfld barrel in 1957 for my father. It is the smoothest and easiest Mauser action I've ever had and uses the original 98 trigger assembly. These need to be altered to remove "over travel" in order to make good target triggers, but I have come to really like the double pull. Never had a "pulled" shot due to a nervous twitch during concentration on targets or game.

FN's "single stage" commercial triggers are fine but need work lightening and smoothing them out. Watch out for the M70 type FN single stage triggers which are pinned to the trigger guard. These should be avoided altogather as the trigger and the sear are attached to different parts of the action - too much room for shifting around.

Double Set triggers hold a certain fascination for many, but, can be really dangerous to unpracticed users. I showed a friend how to use them one day at the range. As he brought it up to his should he set the rear trigger, I started yelling STOP but he kept going, moving his finger to the front trigger and sure enough he touched it off prior to getting it seated securely on his shoulder. His head became the recoil seat for the scope's rear bell housing, it punched out a semi-circle of bone in the upper portion of his eye socket. An older doctor laughed and said they didn't see many of these injuries anymore as set triggers had gone out of fashion, fortunately my friend recoverd with no permanent vision problems.

I'd reccomend sticking with steel and very simple designs like the Buehler, FN, Dayton-Traistor, or Lee shroud safties which block the firing pin. For side safties, Timney, Bold, or Canjar.

When ordering the Bold or Timney side-safety triggers ensure you specify "98" or "FN". The 98 bolt shroud is much wider than the streamlined bold shrouds on commercial actions. Early FNs used the older M98 bolt shroud and will need the "98" trigger. The "FN" safety button will stick up higher above the stock line and block movement of the bolt when it's shroud jams up against it. A small portion of the lower right corner of a M98 type bolt shroud can be ground away to avoid this problem. Bill.

#18 aplaceinspace

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 02:36 PM

Thanks for the info, bilurey.

I have the PH cocking peice, in fact I have the entire PH bolt assembly. That and the trigger came as a package deal when I baught them.

I wound up purchasing the FN Featherweight delux trigger from Timney, and the side safety was still too far to the left to clear the "streamlined" cocking peice shroud on my bolt. Hence the breakage issue.

At this point I'm entertaining the idea of playing with original military trigger components, or a huber adjustable trigger, just to see what I like best. I'm also looking at getting a Gentry model 70 style safety. When my stock shows up (any week now) I can at least get a good feel for the Timney trigger and see if I like it enough to keep it. Still waiting for that replacement safety plate. Probably wont be buying another timeny.

#19 BradD

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 09:38 PM

AP,

Bending down the fingerpiece for the Timney safety is about an absolute necessity. I always figured they knew that when they made them. I don't know why one would snap off. Must have had a weak spot in it. Should have been fine.

Also you usually can't bend it down enough to get the job done and not look like crap. You will find that you need grind a slight groove along the edge of the commercial shroud that addresses the safety. I just use a corner on my bench grinder stone and it always works out fine and not very visible. Grind and check, grind and check, grind and check...same advice for bending the safety fingerpiece.

If you haven't gotten the replacement safety from Timney, just send them the trigger and let them tend to it. Should only take a week.

Good luck,
Brad

#20 aplaceinspace

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 05:21 PM

I'm going to drop Timney another email and see if they'll send me out a safety plate that actually reaches me. If/when I get it I'll just grind what I need to off the top of the plate. It was the knurled knob on the top that was hitting my striker shroud (iirc), if I knock half of that down with a grinder it should still work just fine. I've actually fabricated a new one out of 16ga steel plate, but at this point its the principle of the thing. They said they'd replace it, so I want my replacement part.




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