Elk rifle

[Horsefly]

What would be the longest range,30 to 35 caliber chambering,that would work in a Mauser action with the least problems as far as chambering rounds and ejecting?I won't to build my twin brother an elk rifle.He almost quit hunting,even after moing to Colorado 3 years ago,but went elk hunting last weekend with his son and saw a white tipped 6x6,and he's more excited about hunting than I've seen him in years.I need to act on it.Jerry

[Spiris]

Horsefly, your basic question actually can contain a lot of variables as you probably know. Using factory ammo and the standard bolt face, your choices are more limited. Any of the '06 class calibers, 30-06, 35 Whelen, ect. are adequate, but are not the longest ranging available in a mauser. Rework the bolt face to magnum case size and your selection grows. You are limited here by case length for use through the magazine.

An often overlooked, but designed to work through standard mauser length actions is the 308 Norma magnum. 180 gr. at 3100 fps is 300 fps more than the 30-06, and a lot flatter shooting. It's factory loaded, though expensive.

Probably the best all around magnum choice would be the 338 Winchester Magnum. A powerful fairly flat shooting cartridge that's proven its self over the years. Many different factory loads are available.

If you handload then the possibilities are nearly endless. There are many Ackley and wildcat chamberings to consider, but all are limited to the standard mauser magazine length and the proper seating of the bullet.

I'm sure there are many more knowledgeable people on this site that could give you more insight than I, but I do like to talking about the possibilities. I personally own an FN mauser in 308 Norma.

 

Have a great day,

Spiris

[MorgansBoss]

Jerry, I'll qualify my comments right up front by saying I've never SEEN an elk in the wild, let alone shot one, but no less authority than Craig Boddington sets his "minimum elk cartridge" as the 30-06 w/ 180gr. bullets. That said, along with your criteria for "30 to 35 caliber" and "The least problems as far as chambering rounds and ejecting" and my assumption that your brother isn't a handloader since he's not too big on hunting anymore, leads to two main choices 30-06 and 35Whelen. Neither one is going to be much of an over 250 yard rifle. At least with enough umph to knock a 800+ lb. bull down reliably, but within the scope of limitations either one would be a good choice. Pretty much anything else is going to take some feeding and or bolt modification or else be a handloading only proposition (8mm-06 for instance) in a standard length action.

 

Just my humble opinion as a yet uninitiated elk hunter! More experienced voices are invited to disagree.

[odies dad]

I'll put in my vote for the 35 Whelen. I've never shot an elk with one but they are deadly on deer.

[Sailormilan2]

Jerry, first of all, assuming you want to stay away from the the "exotic" foreign calibers, the others have pretty much covered it. One not mentioned would be the 9.3x62, but then you are into the exotic. I don't know how hard it would be to find ammo in your area. But it is a slightly better round than the 35 Whelen, and the 35 Whelen was designed with elk in mind.

In the magnums, you have basically 4 in the range you mentioned. 308 Norma Mag, 300 Win Mag, 338 Win Mag, 358 Norma mag. All are designed to work through standard length actions. Though the Norma Mags aren't real poplular, and ammo can be hard to find. Especially the 358 Norma Mag. But it is a thumper, approaching 375 H&H performance.

I actually wouldn't feel out gunned with a 30-06. The first and last (so far) time that my son and I went elk hunting, we each got an elk. Both of us armed with 30-06 Mausers. His at 40 yds, and mine at about 270 yds. But, that is why I am making my 35 Whelen...................for my next trip.

[z1r]

.338-06 would be my vote for least invloved. It shoots the same weight bullets to the same speeds as the Whelen but is flatter shooting. You can get factory ammo for it just like the Whelen. You will spot the .338 Win Mag about 75 yds with the same bullet weights. But the .338 Win Mag is just that much better and not much harder to build. Factory ammo is available practically everywhere.

 

Since you say "elk rifle" I say .338 Win Mag.

 

If you'd have said all arounder I'd have said .30-06 followed by the .338-06.

[Guest Guest]

  You can get factory ammo for it just like the Whelen. 

6253[/snapback]

 

Z, who is making the 338/06?? I didn't think there was any factory ammo made for the 338/06 since Hansen.

 

[montea6b]

Some good discussion here as upon completion of .30-06 project #1, I intend to launch #2, caliber undertermined. (I hope it won't be another 5 year odyssey!)

 

I have similar thoughts in that I'd like to go up in bore size/power for larger game like elk, moose, or bison, but with minimal modifications to bolt face and feed rails. I like what I've heard about both the 338/06 and 35 Whelen, in standard and improved versions. I've been leaning towards the Whelen AI because I didn't think that the 338/06 was factory loaded. I've also read that the improved Whelen is better for both performance and headspace issues, and the option to handload improved cartridges or shoot factory ammo appeals to me. Plus lightweight pistol bullets for plinking sounds like a neat idea to me.

 

Despite German heritage on my father's side I'm not fond of eurometric cartridge designations. I guess it's my British mother, but I prefer .275 Rigby over 7x57 mauser.

 

Just some random thoughts from somebody pondering similar questions... Anybody know if there are feeding issues with the improved cartridges having a straighter case and steeper shoulder?

 

Another good rule of thumb I've read for elk is that you'd like to have a ton of energy to knock 'em down. Factor in the range that your brother would be comfortable shooting out to and see which rounds still carry that much energy at that range. (I believe the 06 drops below 2000 ft/lbs at around 200 yards but don't have a ballistic table handy....) That might help you choose.

 

BTW, saw a nice spike bull during yet another unsuccessful "rifle hike" for deer this year. (I'd call it hunting if I ever actually got anything.) Just like a few years ago when I saw a beautiful 4 point muley during elk season. Just my luck!

[z1r]

Ammo for the .338-06 is made by Weatherby, Norma, and A-Square. Not as cheap as whelen for sure but it is there. In the locations I've looked, I've never seen 35 Whelen on the shelf but I'm sure it will be easier to find.

[riflebuff]

LEAST MODIFICATIONS!!! 35 Whelen 1st pick(easy to find factory ammo if you don't reload), The 338-06 would be my 1st pick if you reload. The .338 bullets have a better sectional density for better penetration, and pobably more bullets to pick from than the .358 caliber. The 225 gr, bullet in the 338-06 is a great penetrater. You need all you can get with these animals!!!!

Thanks, Davis.

[riflebuff]

Jerry, I have either reamer if you need to use it. 35 Whelen or 338-06.

Thanks, Davis.

[Jimro]

 

The 300 Win Mag is capable of killing elk at ranges most hunters have no business shooting. Most of my buddies who hunt elk where long ranges are common swear by the 300 win mag.

 

Of course a 30-06 with 180 grainers will kill and elk just as dead, but you might have to stalk closer.

 

The 338-06 is a wonderful round, just expensive to buy commercial ammo. The 338 Win Mag is a great choice, but not as "flat" shooting as the 300.

 

The 35 Whelen has nothing to prove as an elk hunting cartrige, but once again not as "flat".

 

But if long range is a factor, best bet is the 300 Win Mag, 190-210 grain bullets and sighting in 3-4 inches high at 100.

 

Jimro

[beanstrung]

Nobody's mentioned the vererable, old 8mm Mauser cartridge ( 8X57 ). With a 180~200gr. partition-type bullet, clocking out at about 2,400 to 2,600 fps, it would be fine out to 200yds. As far as feeding issues, do I even need to say?

[BobVZ]

How about the tried and true 8x60 JS? The old RWS load with a 187 grain bullet manages 2,810 fps and 3275 fpe at the muzzle with a 2.3", 200 yd. midrange trajectory.* That should be at least a reliable 300 yd. Elk gun. Since it was designed for the standard M98 action it should require no mods.

 

* Cartridges of the World, 6th ed.

[Clark]

My 8mm Turkish Mausers push 220 gr at 2600 fps

My 300 Win Mag pushes 180 gr at 3000 fps

My 91/30 pushes 180 gr at 2875 fps

My 30-06 pushes 150 gr at 3167 fps

My 308 pushes 150 gr at 3050 fps

 

I elk hunt with the sporterized 91/30 Russian.

The other guys in camp with $1000 ultras make fun of my rifle, but I don't feel any shame. I am hunting, not wearing jewlry.

[MorgansBoss]

GREAT discussion! Horsefly, you really need to give us some more information. As said before, I'm assuming your brother is a typical "casual hunter." The kind of guy who don't reload and buys his ammo at WalMart. If that's the case, choices are much more limited. If he's a bit more "adventurous" like his brother, the possibilities covers a lot more ground.

[AzRednek]

 

Another good discussion!! I remember reading something in a gun rag about the ideal caliber and rifle for deer hunting. The author said something to the effect. Conversations and opinions of the ideal caliber has probably led to more campfire arguments, tall tales and likely a few fist fights. I’m sure the same applies to the ideal elk rifle and caliber as well.

 

I haven’t seen a bad choice in this thread but your brother’s stature, ability to hit the target and sensitivity to recoil should also be considered. If he hasn’t been hunting for awhile and doesn’t shoot often you may want to consider keeping it mild. If he doesn’t reload and is a one gun hunter the 06 or 308 might be ideal. If he will have another rifle for deer or smaller than elk game it would be hard to beat the Whelen or the 338/06. If he can handle the recoil and you’re willing to go the extra mile in the project any of the belted mags 7mm and up will do. On one of my elk hunts the only successful hunter out of six, got his with a 45/70 built on a Siamese Mauser.

 

[Nelsdou]

I only have one data point but it is this:

 

I crept up within 40~50 yds on a big bull elk last year in a snow storm with my k98 mauser chambered in 308 Win using interbond Hornady bullets. When I put one behind his shoulder, he just turned and looked at me like "who are you?" I proceeded to put two more into the same spot before he finally turned and hit the ground. He was a 6x6 and measured 320.

 

Now dead is dead and the 308 did its job, but frankly I felt a bit undergunned from this experience. My next elk mauser will be a 338-06 or a Whelen.

[ringo338]

I have shot Elk with 270 win/150gr bullet, 30.06/165gr, 7mm rem mag/175gr, and 338 win mag/225gr. All my shots were at the 200 to 340 yd range. The 270 is the absolute minimum because bullet placement is really critical, this was actually an experiment as I wanted to see if Jack O'Connor's field experience was realistic. My recommendation is for 30.06 in non magnum chamberings, and 7mm rem mag in magnum. Use a well constructed bullet, an elk is a large, tough animal that can get lost in some miserable country very quickly with a poorly placed wounding shot. I have a Parker-Hale magnum action begging for a 338 win mag tube, and an IOB FN action that may go 35 whelen. I might take a hard look at 338.06 after reading some of these posts.

[Rustybore]

I might add my tuppence. I recently finished a 338-06 Ackley Improved. I, for some reason, don't want a magnum, but can acheive some good ballistics with this rifle. I'm loading with 210 Nosler Partitiions. I have always wanted a wildcat of some sort, and this one seems to fit the elk hunting ticket. I am still in the process of developing a load. I built this rifle on a Vz-24 action, and put a muzzle brake on the end of the tube. The noise doesn't bother me while hunting, and the recoil seems less than my 30-06. I think it will work out to be a good rifle.

 

Kevin in Or.

[manureman]

Whelen. Jim

[carzngunz]

I am going to go out on a limb here and vote for something really radical. Are you ready? 30-06 ! It's probably the most versatile cartridge around. It will kill an elk as dead as it will ever be and a wide variety of good ammo is available everywhere.

[z1r]

Rustybore,

 

That 210 Nosler Partition is a real over achiever. You get great velocity with it and outstanding penetration.

[Horsefly]

The Whelen wins.Thanks guys.Cabela's and Bass Pro Shop both have .35Whelen on the shelf,I'm down to bluing the Whelen I'm builing for myself,so,I can reload all the ammo we'll need.I've always liked what I've heard about Whelens and had to have one hearing you guys talk about them a couple years ago when I found this sight(the old place),but didn't realize so many liked them too.My brother isn't recoil sensative at all,he has a Winchester light weight '06 he used for years deer hunting when he still lived in Texas,and it kickes like a mule.I was just thinking about building him something different,just to be different.Growing up and us being twins,we had the same things,down to socks and underwear,and that tended to make us want different things later.That's bullsh_t now,'cause he's getting a Whelen.Thanks again pals and gals for being here for me to talk too.Jerry

[Guest Guest_riflebuff_*]

Jerry, try the Federal 225 gr. Trophy Bonded Bear Claw. Awesome penetration.

Thanks, Davis.