Show Report: TULSA

[Dr.Hess]

We went to The Big Show in Tulsa, Wanamaker, yesterday.  It was big.  It was crowded.  Really crowded.  I kept bumping my roller cart into one woman's heels.  She eventually got pissed off and let me pass.  There were rows so crowded that I just handed the cart to Dr.Linda on the end or in the middle and said "Here, you hold this and I'll look down this row and meet you back here."  11 acres of that. 

I was kinda looking for a Magnum Research BFR revolver in 30-30.  That's about the only thing I didn't see.  I saw one in 45-70. 

Mosin Nagants were around in the $300-ish range.  A bunch of Krag-Jorgensens, which was kinda surprising.  Black rifles everywhere.  Lots of Garands, too, starting at $1200.

Mauser prices were all over the place.  $300 to $700 for otherwise stock rifles.  OK, ya'll know I have a weakness for 7x57.  I bought this large ring FN Mauser in 7x57.  It has a FN crest and not much else for markings.  My Google-Fu tells me it is a "1930 contract" FN Mauser.  I'm thinking probably South American.  No other markings.  Bolt matches, bottom metal has an extra number stamped that matches.  Safety wing does not match.  Probably 1937 to 1964 based on one of the proof marks.  Wood looks to have been refinished.  Straight bolt.  Bore looks pretty good.  The receiver looks to be chromed or nickle plated. The sight starts at 200 as the lowest position, and there's no battle sight (300) position before that.
 

Ideas on what it might be?

 

 

[AzRednek]

Venezuela would be my guess as they later bought FN-49's from FN in 7X57. Venezuela stayed with the 7X57 long after others moved up to more modern cartridges. Another possibility is Brazil. 

Youre a gluten for punishment!! Best bring some Advil along with a 30/30 BFR. Years ago I shot a 45/70 revolver. Not sure if it was a BFR but it was a massive single action revolver. My youthful pride didn't allow me to quit or complain in front of my buddies after the first shot. The following morning my wrist really felt it. Been to many years to recall the 45/70 ammo other than it being factory ammo with jacketed slugs. Guess a BFR might be OK with moderate hand loads. 

Great idea!! Bring a secretary to haul the cart and wait at the end of the aisles. Especially if she out of hearing distance so you don't get caught spending your private rat holed bucks. I only brought my wife to one gun show and quickly regretted it when the nagging over money started. 

[Dr.Hess]

Venezuela is my best guess at the moment too.  The FN logo and no official country crest is kind of unusual, and it is definitely a military rifle.  All the pics of Brazilian rifles I've seen have the Brazilian crest.  Other google-fu indicates a 30's manufacture based on the font and capitalization of the "DE", and it is "single broach," as near as I can tell.  The stock may not be original.  The bottom metal has a different serial but the mag floor plate matches.

 

She does pretty well at the shows.  They have jewelry and rocks to keep the women happy.  The Wanamaker show should be on everyone's bucket list, as far as I'm concerned.

 

I probably don't need a 30-30 revolver.  I probably really don't need a 45-70 revolver, but the specs on a 45-70 round put it under the S&W 500, which I also don't need.

[AzRednek]

A quick look around the net, it appears Chile also adopted 7X57 Mausers but the posting did not say which manufacture they got them from. 

Id love to see the Tulsa show. I did get an opportunity to visit the Great Southwestern Show. At the time before the county board of supervisors shut it down its claim to fame was the biggest gun show in the world. I was working a table so I really didn't get a chance to see but a small portion of it. Simply no way one could walk down every aisle in two days. They did have it set up where they tried to put say for instance black powder, military etc together but the majority was pretty much a cluster screw of anything from antique bottles to Class Three weapons. Ive been told by those that have been to both the Tulsa show is as big if not bigger. 

I was still working at the Post Office when I attended the Southwestern Show. I met a vendor that had bought an old postal rail car he intended to make into a restaurant. After he took possession of the rail car he discovered a BAR, Winchester 1897 shotgun, Colt Lightning revolver and a 1917 Enfield. He stripped the BAR down to the receiver and reported his find the ATF. The vendor claimed ATF, Postal Inspectors and the local Sheriff showed up. Cops assumed they were taking everything but he refused other than the BAR receiver. The guns were all over stamped USPOD (used to be post office dept). The inspectors claimed the guns were Post Office property but the vendor showed auction paperwork that all contents belonged to winning bidder. 

Cant recall the numbers but his prices were crazy, over a grand (late 80's bux) for the Colt and 250 for a brass spittoon with a USPOD property tag. I wound up buying an old uniform patch depicting a Pony Exress rider. 

Doc, I don't need a 30/30 revolver any more than the 460 I bought for an unsuccessful Javalina hunt. The cool factor of a 30/30 revolver is hard to beat though. Years ago I shot a 30/30 Contender with a long magnaported barrel. It was manageable but on the same outing he put on a 5 or 6 inch non ported 35 Remington barrel. The Remmy barrel hurt more the following morning, it was a beast with a brilliant daytime muzzle flash. 

[Dr.Hess]

Yes, Chile was an early adopter of the 7x57.  They were trying to "keep up with the Jones" or the Gonzalezes.  All their neighbors bought Mausers and there they were with old junk like 44-40 Winchesters. The Germans also let slip that the neighbors were arming up with German weapons so they could sell to both sides.  Hey, it's profitable, right?  "Here, let's tour the Mauser factory.  Oh, my, is that an Argentina crest on the ring of that Mauser?  Don't look..."  So the Chileans bought Mauser 95's in 7x57, delivered between 1895 and 1901, I think.  In fact, there was a ship load that was going to the Boer in the Orange State, but it couldn't get through the British blockade in the Boer War and returned to Germany.  They overstamped them with the Chilean crest and sold them to Chile. 

 

I saw a 460 there, and 500's.  I'm still kinda wanting that 30-30 BFR.  We'll see.  I've got a good load with a powder coated bullet for 30-30.  It's pretty stout.  Maybe a bit too much for a revolver.  My right arm is still messed up from a bowling outing with work a few weeks ago.  Too messed up to shoot anything big right now.  That was my second and last time bowling.  Screw that.

[Dr.Hess]

Also, for those that don't get around as well as they used to, the show will rent an electric scooter for $60/day.  I think you have to reserve them early.

[AzRednek]

Doc I have a 91 Argie stamped "Mauser Modelo Argentino" but it has a Peruvian crest on the receiver ring. If I still have the photos in my files I'll post them later. Guess the Peruvians didn't let their ego get in the way of a good deal. 

[AzRednek]

It appears Photo Bucket decided to send the rest of the photos to la la land. Photo Bucket really sucks big time.

The photos are a 91 Argie with a Peruvian crest. I bought it late 70's or early 80's from Springfield Sporters. I recall the cool factor of having it delivered to my door by the Post Office. Being a pre-98 no FFL was needed. All numbers match including the cleaning rod. 

The rifle was refurbed by the Peruvians. The metal was spray painted black over the pits. The barrel was relined and the interior is still bright and shiny despite numerous pits on the exterior. Best I recall it shot a 4 or 5 inch cluster bench rested at 100 yards with my then young eyesight. I was advised years ago by a hard core Mauser guy. To avoid excessively heating up the barrel as solder might flow out between barrel and liner. He claimed all South American Mausers that were relined they used solder.

 

[Dr.Hess]

That's some antique there, Az, 1891 being the start of the real Mauser.  I don't really consider the 1888 rifle as the start, more of a prototype. Chile, Peru and Argentina all were posturing and if one got something, the rest had to have it too.

[AzRednek]

Gotta give the Argies credit for making their own. Don't know if it was economic or supply. My guess the Mauser factories were likely very busy in 1909 keeping up with orders with all the troubles brewing in Europe and war breaking out 4 or 5 years later. The Argie mfd 09 not quite the quality of Europeon 09's but they did the job and many Argie mfd 09 actions were turned into nice sporters. 

[Dr.Hess]

I thought the 1909 Argies were actually German made.  From my reading, and it could be complete BS, the Argies bought those 1891 Mausers in 7.65MM, then when the later receivers came out, they kept buying the newer models in 7.65MM so they wouldn't have to change calibers.  They wound up with 1895's and eventually 1898's in 7.65 while everyone else went to 7mm or 8mm Mausers or 7.62mm for the Americans.  Eventually, and I think post WWII, but certainly post WWI, they "converted" their large ring Mausers to 30-06 by doing nothing but chambering the barrels to 30-06.  The difference in 0.03mm is not much and it goes boom and puts holes in things in the general direction you're pointing it at, so good enough. 

Anyway, that's what I've read.  The 98 Argie I saw at a pawn shop recently was stamped Berlin.

[AzRednek]

The 09's used by Argentina were made in Germany but the Argies also made their own. I used to have an example of both. I had a super nice German mfd 09 sniper model with turret scope mounts and factory turned down bolt. The action was super slick and a delight to shoot. Bore was slightly dark but bench rested I easily shot tight clusters at 100 yards. At the time Sarco was getting 550 for just the turret scope mounts as they were the same as used on early WW2 German sniper rifles. Most were lost on the Eastern Front according to Sarco. Couldnt resist a straight across trade for a 50's M-1 Garrand. I still have an Argie mfd 09 carbine, I'll try and post photos later as it is buried deep in my vault. 

[AzRednek]

If I remember correctly Turkey bought up the 7.65 Belgium chambered 1895's but I can speculate some may have made their way to Argentina or other South American countries. There's a lot of baloney on the net about Mausers. A lot of records were destroyed in WW2 and the US Army in brilliant govt bureaucracy also deliberately destroyed records. 

[Dr.Hess]

From my readings of teh Intr4w3bz, y0, Turkey bought the small ring Mausers originally in 7x57.  I suspect it was after getting trounced by the Yugoslavians armed with them.  Then Turkey went 8mm after the Germans went 8mm and Turkey rebarreled their small rings to 8x57.  They also ordered their large rings from Germany and made their own large ring receivers with small ring shanks so they could use one size barrel shank, small, for all their rifles, large and small ring.  I have a small ring Turk in 8x57 that is "like new." 

[FC]

.30-30 revolver? First I’ve heard of that. I have a .60 cal flint pistol. The kick is horrible!

[Dr.Hess]

Yeah, it's the Magnum Research (same people that make the Desert Eagle) BFR for "Big Frame Revolver." 

[ken98k]

On 4/8/2018 at 1:23 PM, Dr.Hess said:

Doc, I thought you find this interesting,

This is from Mauser Military Rifles of the world

 

 

 

 

 

[Dr.Hess]

Thanks, Ken.  I found reference to that on Teh Intr4w3bz, y0, but not that specific.  I'm not sure if it is correct either.  I do think the rifle I bought was not from China, as what I've seen mentioned is that all the Chinese ones are scrap today.  Don't know about Lithuania, but I don't think the Lithuanians are in 7mm.  This one is a 3 digit serial number too, so perhaps very early production. The receiver is either nickel or chrome plated, blued barrel.  My best guess today is that it is a 1930 model short rifle probably made between 1937 and 1939 for Venezuela. 

 

Incidentally, that book sells used on amazon for a thousand dollars.  I think you can get an Ebook version for about fifty.

[ken98k]

This is the one I have, https://www.amazon.com/Mauser-Military-Rifles-Robert-Hardcover/dp/B011MB9P5G/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1524068974&sr=8-3&keywords=military+mauser+of+the+world

I had the 3rd edition but sold it to "Walnut" before he passed away. 

The 5th edition is about $50

[Dr.Hess]

I picked up the 4th edition on ebay for $44.  According to the reviews, the 5th edition is printed on something that makes newspaper look nice, so I thought I'd go for the 4th.

I cleaned up that FN last night.  It is in excellent condition.  I suspect some type of arsenal refurb job.  The bore looks new.  Not a single blemish.  I disassembled the bolt and it was just this side of "squeeky clean."  A light oil coat and no 60 years of grease turned to clay.  The stock looks to have been refinished and there is a professional patch fit just in front of the bottom metal.  The front ramp of the front sight is checkered.  I don't think I've seen one like that before.