BP bullet lube method

[FC]

http://www.blackpowderspg.com/HTML/images/Pan Lubing article for web.pdf

[Dr.Hess]

That reminds me of my first batch of bullets, 45 years ago.  I cast a batch of 45's, then had a product Lee was selling at the time.  You melt the very nasty Lee bullet lube (not the new alox stuff), pour it in a dish with bullets in up to the top groove, let cool, then use this sleeve tool to cut them out of the lube.  What a mess.  I bought a RCBS lubamatic shortly after that.  Still use it for 45, but I've gone to powder coating for rifle and 44 mag. 

Speaking of which, I got a new 44 magnum magnum barrel for my Desert Eagle.  It's called '429 Desert Eagle.'  It's a 50AE necked down to 44 caliber, and is said to push a 240GR bullet to 1600 FPS, versus mid 1200's for a 44 mag.  Still waiting on some dies to load up some ammo for it.

[AzRednek]

I lost count of all the bullets I lubed with the old Lee set-up. My shooting results at first were beyond terrible. Being naive I didn't know the lube on the base of gas checked bullets would contaminate the powder charge. I remember reading somewhere that it wasnt necessary to use gas checks. After reading something in a gun rag I discovered the reason. I spent hours wiping down and removing the excess lube on hundreds of cast slugs with a WD-40 soaked rag. Regrettably I sold the gas checked hollow point molds and invested in solid base molds. Those old and discontinued Lee hollow point molds fetch a good price on EBay. 

I had just about given up on casting my own when I lucked into a desperate yard seller trying to raise money to bail his wife out of jail. I got a RCBS Lubeamatic, molds, dies, brass about 20lbs of tin, about a thousand cast and lubed 380/9MM slugs and other casting and reloading accessories if I remember right for about 50-60 bucks. My then wife also bought a bunch of junk from hm. An aquarium, Angel Fish, a huge Tarantula and antique kitchen tools. I put on the brakes when she started negotiating for an Iguana. Seller claimed when his wife was arrested cops with a search warrant took all his guns including a Class 3 Mac 10. His drug addicted wife was writing rubber checks. 

I still have the old RCBS Lubamatic but have trouble with some sizing dies. The cap's threads are partially stripped and RCBS no longer sells replacement parts for it other than the o-ring seals. I've had to grind down a couple of sizing dies shortening their overall length just slightly. To get the cap on far enough to catch a couple of threads. Several years ago something got plugged up, pressure built up and blew the cap off. I disassembled it, boiled it outside on a Coleman stove, melting all the lube and discovered a bunch of tiny lead fragments. It still works just fine if I can get the cap on over the sizing die. If I get involved with casting again I'm going to look into powder coating. 

Doc, do you have by chance a Crony? I'm really curious about the velocity of the Wildcat cartridge. If it does 1600 with a 240, wonder what it's capable with say a 180gr. You might be about 30/30 energy or possibly close to 444 Marlin out of an auto pistol. Find yourself a pointy bullet mold or bullets and your long range velocity could possibly exceed lever rifles. From what I've read about the 444 with flat nosed bullets that have to be used in tubular mags. It sheds velocity so quick it's not all that effective past 150- 200 yards. 

Good grief, as I type at 2:00 AM . Police helicopter buzzing overhead. My neighborhood going to hell in a hand basket. My dog turns into a bark-o-matic at the sound of the helicopter. Time to drag out a shotgun, turn on backyard flood lights and hopefully the bad guy will be caught soon so I can get some sleep. 

[Dr.Hess]

On the Lubamatic, you might try to repair the threads with a Helicoil kit.  I bet they make one that size.  Might be a bit challenging to get the drill bit and threading tool in there, but it could be done.  Or braze up the area where you lost the threads, work the drill bit for tapping that size in there, then tap it.

The 429DE is not a wildcat.  It's official.  Don't have a crony.  Some time ago, there was a 440 Corbon which was basically the same thing, a 50AE necked down to 44.  But it apparently had problems and died out.  Magnum Research took the idea and ran with it, developing the 429DE from the concept.  The angles are different and the shoulder is in a different place.

[FC]

Your wife wanted a tarantula?! 

I have a chronograph. 

[AzRednek]

On 2/14/2019 at 7:37 AM, Dr.Hess said:

On the Lubamatic, you might try to repair the threads with a Helicoil kit.  I bet they make one that size.  Might be a bit challenging to get the drill bit and threading tool in there, but it could be done.  Or braze up the area where you lost the threads, work the drill bit for tapping that size in there, then tap it.

The 429DE is not a wildcat.  It's official.  Don't have a crony.  Some time ago, there was a 440 Corbon which was basically the same thing, a 50AE necked down to 44.  But it apparently had problems and died out.  Magnum Research took the idea and ran with it, developing the 429DE from the concept.  The angles are different and the shoulder is in a different place.

Doc the bad threads are on the cap where it threads into the body. I may have to do something with it if I ever get back to casting. So far just by shortening up the sizing die just slightly seems to work. I have an old Lyman bullet luber buried deep into storage. Haven't ever used it or even handled it since 2000 after picking it up for a few bucks at a flea market. Might try to get it into working order first. 

I'm assuming if the 429DE is official it's been accepted by SAAMI. If so a net search might show up some reloading data. I don't know but I wonder if the 429DE is hand loaded with rifle primers. It simply has to be bad assed putting that much energy out of a semi auto handgun. Somewhere I have some home cast Lyman 44 cal spire point slugs. The net rumor is ATF leaned on Lyman to discontinue the 38/357 and 44 Spire point molds because of their ability to penetrate Kevlar. With hard cast slugs posters on the Cast Boolit board claim they will penetrate a cast iron engine block. Years ago I shot an abandoned industrial or tractor engine in the desert with one. The Spire Points were cast from from a 50/50 mix of pure and clip-ons. Didn't appear to penetrate but did crack the block around the impact. From what I've read, the dangerous and downside to hard cast Spire Point slugs is they are prone to ricochet. On the Boolit board there was a lot of praise for hard cast 44 Mag Spire Points for bears because of the very deep penetration but I don't recall anybody sharing any actual experience. Anyhow Doc if I turn up the pointy 44's I'll send some your way to try in your handgun artillery. 

[AzRednek]

On 2/15/2019 at 7:21 AM, FC said:

Your wife wanted a tarantula?! 

I have a chronograph. 

Yes, she was into weird pets. After the Tarantula died she wanted another but I had to put my foot and say NO WAY. She used to buy baby Crickets from Petco to feed it. One time a dozen and a half got loose and a few months later there were Crickets all over the house. Hardly a night without one or two chirping in the middle of night. I did discover how effective the No Pest strips were in eliminating them. 

She eventualy got an Iguana. By far a totally useless pet. It stayed in one place and rarely moved. She got rid of it after her dog attacked it. The Iguana used its long tail like a whip to defend itself and injured the dog's eye. For a short time she had a huge Scorpion that "mysteriously" died. She had what was like a miniature Porkupine, Hedge Hog I think it was. She lost interest in it and gave it away. She also wanted a Bat but fortunately she discovered they don't live long in captivity. The only cool weird pets were Piranha fish, illegal in Arizona and warm states. One in particular lived nearly ten years. She bought them special food but when she wasn't around a few times I watched them go into a frenzy devouring raw meat. Most of the Piranha were missing pieces of their tails from being eaten by the others.  

[Dr.Hess]

I've been googling on the 429DE.  I found SAAMI's site and pulled their published stuff.  The 429DE is not in there, so I was mistaken on that.  Now, don't know when or if it's coming, but as of what they officially have published, it's not there.  If I recall, "wildcat" in our circles is defined as "no manufacturer makes a gun for it and no factory makes the cartridge."  That doesn't fit here, as Magnum Research (the Moonies) makes the gun for it and they make the cartridge, or private label it anyway.  StarLine is making the brass, but at the present only sell to Magnum Research.

I'm not surprised that the spire points will go through Kevlar.  I recall seeing years ago some photos of various bullets v. some maker's vests.  It was one of those handgun rated vests, nothing for rifle.  I seem to remember that the 2 that were the biggest problems were 22LR and 44mag. 

[FC]

.22, how?

[Dr.Hess]

Not sure on exactly why, but I suspect a small diameter bullet at relatively high (supersonic) velocity gave the Kevlar weave issues in stopping.  The ad showed layer penetration for various pistol calibers.  38, 9mm, 45, no problems.  That was early vests, too, probably early 80's technology.  I assume things have improved since then.

[AzRednek]

I recall reading something about the early Kevlar deteriorating prematurely in Arizona heat. Cops were advised to avoid direct sunlight and to replace the vest after one year. I assume its improved in recent years. When I was in the uniform business I tried to retail Kevlar but they weren't interested. Never gave me a reason, the rep just ignored my calls. After going to his manager, I was told I could buy it at retail price from my chief competitor. A few months later they tried to sell me on stocking the nets cops wear beneath the Kevlar.

A friend of a friend of my cop X-wife. Knew an Arizona female cop that took a 357 in her boob before giving the perp a dirt nap with her 9MM.The Kevlar stopped the slug but she needed a few surgeries to save and rebuild her breast. I was told she had a battle with Worker's Comp for plastic surgery to keep her boob intact. Two DPS cops I knew from my previous marriage would not wear Kevlar during the summer months. I didn't see it but was told they opted to wear what they called a bib that held a single lightweight ceramic trauma plate covering the area near their heart.  

Doc, possibly SAAMI has it listed as a propriety cartridge. You will probably have to rely on Magnum Research for loading data.The way Starline produces brass, you might want to jump on it when its available as it could be 2-3 years possibly longer before its available again. I waited about a year and a half for Starline 45 Auto Rim brass but finally gave up after locating another source. Remington no longer sells the AR brass but did do a run on the ammo but didn't offer the brass. I haven't been following the Cast Boolit board lately but I can recall some CAS shooters belly aching about the long wait from Starline for 44 Russian and 45 Special. 45 Special is 45 Colt made the same length as 44 Special. Guess they were afraid of a case trimmer or just had to have the correct headstamp.