Trail Boss

[ken98k]

Has anyone here used Hodgdon (formerly IMR) trail boss powder?

I'm interested in working up some sub-sonic loads for 30-30 winchester in my latest creation.

[Dr.Hess]

I haven't used it, but my database has this for 30-30:

 

Consolidated_Load_Data

Cartridge	BulletWtinGn	Bullet	Powder	Grains	Velocity	Pressure	LoadSource
30-30 Winchester	160	CAST: 160 GR. CAST LFN	Trail Boss	9	1195	29,100 CUP	HodgdonWebsite-RifleData
30-30 Winchester	160	160 GR. CAST LFN	Trail Boss	9	1195	29,100 CUP	HodgdonWebsite-RifleData

 

 

[ken98k]

Thanks!

I found this on the net anw going to try some home brewed loads.

 

trail-boss-reduced-loads-r_p.pdf

[AzRednek]

I don’t recall the numbers. I had good luck in the 80’s using 2400 in reduced loads for 30/30 and 270 but not so good in 30/06. I shot lead in the 30/30 and 270 but used a half jacket 100 gr slug named The Plinker in the 06.  I believe there are reduced loads in old Hercules manuals if you can come across one. Read a few years later in a gun rag not to use 2400 in reduced loads. The author claimed reduced loads with 2400 can cause the powder charge to explode rather than a progressive burn. If I remember correctly he suggested to use Unique instead. 

[AzRednek]

Jumping a bit off subject. I recall Thompson Contender and ATF battling it out in court over the ability to easily convert a T/C frame into a SBR (short barreled rifle). Anybody recall how it turned out?? If I remember it right ATF demanded that pistol frames being made so they could not accept rifle barrels and visa-versa. I recall reading about it but don’t recall how it ended. 

[AzRednek]

It is my understanding from what I recall reading. Trail boss and some others being promoted in the gun rags attempting to urge those using progressive presses to adopt the new and safer powders. The idea was to prevent double charges in the progressive set ups. I’m sure the manufacturers also liked the idea of hand loaders dumping larger charges, decreasing the number of loaded cartridges per pound increasing profits. 
 

Myself being a persnickety geezer stayed with my favorites like Bullseye, Unique, Herco and 2400. Winchester Ball powders 748 and 760 for most rifles as they flowed smoothly an very accurately through a powder measurer much better than DuPont’s stick powders. I did invest into powder check dies that help prevent double charges, squibs or even an empty case sneaking through as the powder measurer ran dry. I also made a gizmo of cardboard, long pipe cleaner run through a hole I drilled through the powder measurer cap. Made it easier to see powder measurer getting low. About 20 years ago I loaded apx 100, 41 mags. Somewhere along the way the measurer went dry and I didn’t notice. Wound up tossing them as the crimped in lead slugs were near impossible to pull out. About the same time I loaded 44 mags discovering at the range numerous squibs and dumped them as well. Afterward I sold off my Lee brand progressive press and invested in Hornady’s Lock n Load and always used the RCBS powder check die. 
 

I can recall numerous horror stories in the 70’s gun rags about double and even recall a story about a triple charge of Bullseye the author claimed destroyed a GI 45. Being somewhat skeptical of the article I put three 4.5 grain charges into a 45 ACP case. The charge filled the case to the top with only a few kernels spilling over. 
 

Those same 70’s gun rags also did stories on duplex and triplex loads for 357 and 44 Mags and Ruger Only 45 Colt then suddenly stopped. I can’t recal for surel but I imagine other calibers like 32 Long and 38 Special were written about, back in the early to mid 70’s 9MM wasn’t very popular. I imagine quite a few guns got blown to bits. The loads usually started with a fast burning powder like Red Dot, PB then a medium like Unique or Herco and topped with 2400. The authors emphatically mentioned the powder charges had to be done in layers. Loaded ammo had to be stored and not disturbed to avoid mixing the layers. I’m sure after a few lawsuits the publishers quit printing duplex and triplex details. Being young and foolish I did some duplex in 38 Super and triplex in 44 Mag. At best,  maybe I squeezed an additional 100 FPS at the risk of blowing up my gun to put a speeding bullet through a paper target. 
 

Well sh!t, here I am at 2:40 AM keyboard rambling again. Just heard a loud thump in my backyard and my German Shepard went skitzo with the vicious non stop barking. Don’t know what the hell made the noise, nothing out there not even a cat. Can’t sleep worried about my Oncologist appt at noon tomorrow. Guess it’s time to dig into my 90 day ration of only 18 Ambiens. Dam PA cut me back from 24 and hopefully after I make sure there’s a live one in my shotgun’s chamber. I can fall asleep.

[AzRednek]

6 hours ago, The Zen Master said:

I wish I was still in AZ just to go shootin with ya, Red! Good luck at the doc!

Today sucked, should have stayed in bed. Today’s Dr appt was a screw up by staff, Dr wasn’t in the office. The doofus changed my Monday appt to today but apparently it wasn’t logged in but he did manage to log in and cancel my Monday appt. I got firm, not quite belligerent with the receptionist but she claimed she didn’t have the authority to schedule me back into my original appt. After getting a bit nasty with the receptionist she gave me directions through an employee’s only door to the person that does scheduling. Naturally she claimed no openings for a couple weeks. After showing her the time and date on my cell’s calendar, she tried putting the blame on me. Gave her a real attitude adjustment after showing her the auto text message on my cell confirming today’s non existent appt. After she said I’ll see if we can work you in Monday. I walked out telling her I’m keeping my noon appt time Monday and you explain it to the Dr. Fortunately after getting home I found the original appt card magnetized to my fridge showing my Monday noon appt. The trouble with the staff is worth it as the Dr on a 1-10 scale is a 10+. 
 

On the way home stopped to collect rent only to find out he’s in jail for a bar room fist fight. His lady companion claimed she was broke and not sure if he still has a job. His court date was today, she promised me a call as she seemed pretty confident he would be out of jail after hearing. As expected, no call and if they do have any money it will probably be used to bail him out.

After driving to the other rental to see the progress of the nearly 5 G’s plumbing job. Only to learn more work needed. The house built in late 50’s. The cast iron drain plumbing rotted out, likely been leaking for years. Looks like I might have to dig under house and dump sand under the cement slab. The ground settled from the drain water leaking and there’s no longer any dirt underneath supporting the foundation. Plumber already jack-hammered out a shower floor to dirt, replaced all the drain pipes under shower, toilet and sink. The other bathroom is in the middle of the house. Keeping my fingers crossed hoping we don’t have to dig up it’s drain pipes. Plumber also repaired lawn sprinkler system but found out a leaking shower valve is going to cost me another $125. Repairing shower wall and replacing tile cost will be determined later. 
 

My apologies for turning a gunpowder thread into my keyboard venting of a bad day. Life sucks then you die, hopefully it’s quick and painless!! On the bright side I discovered a new what they call Arkansas Barbecue near home. The pork belly sandwich knocked my sox off and sent a real thrill up my leg. Gotta feeling it will become addictive. 
 

 

[Dr.Hess]

We have BBQ places, but we don't call them Arkansas Barbecue.  Weird that other places call it that.  We have Razorback Hogs, mascots for the football team, and drawings of them everywhere. 

 

I'm having some health issues myself.  Sucks getting old.  I had to move an appointment up.  I was sick and my appointment was in 3 weeks.  "I need to be seen sooner and move this appointment up." "I have an opening in 2 weeks."  "Why don't you ask Dr. I if she can work Dr. Hess into her schedule."  "I have a 2PM cancellation."  "I'll be there."  Sometimes 10 years of higher education is not useless.

 

On the Trailboss, it was my understanding that the powder was created as a black powder substitute for old originally black powder cartridges like 45LC, 44-40, etc., and especially for the cowboy action shooting stuff.  4 or 5 grains of bullseye in a 45LC case is just a fraction of the case volume, but the Trailboss stuff will fill it much more.

My friend is house shopping.  They found one place that was practically perfect.  Some land, hunting, house, etc.  Low price.  Looked at it and when they really looked, it turned out that whoever built the house was totally clueless.  They poured the slab without doing the plumbing, or only doing part of the plumbing or something.  There was a water pipe in the bathroom, but no drains, for example.  The whole thing would be a disaster.  Jackhammer it all up to put drainage in.

[AzRednek]

Drain plumbing has been the biggest thorn in my side as a landlord. I now put a paragraph into the contract saying you’ve been provided with clear drains any stoppages are the responsibility of the tenant. Tenants will flush tampons, rubbers and occasionally use the toilet as a garbage disposal. Tenants will cut hair in tub or shower and put it down the drain. I had one tenant that removed the screen in the shower’s drain. Naturally she didn’t know how it came loose. After I removed a toothbrush and a big wad of hair that obviously came from a black person she still denied it. After I had her evicted I pulled a potato out of a plugged toilet. Her kid put transformer toys down a washing machine drain. She tried blaming it on the business that installed the washer. I celebrated the day I got her out. She called cops on me for harassment. Told cop I was a bigot, called her derogatory names but failed to mention she was almost two months behind. She also caused me to be fined by the city as she couldn’t walk apx 20 yards to the garbage can. She just placed garbage by back door and simply tossed shitty diapers out back door. When I attempted to clean it up she had cops remove me telling me it’s a civil matter, “save it for the judge”. 

The guy doing the plumbing work I assume speaking with knowledge and experience. Showed me one hole and possibly another in the drain plumbing he said was burned from acid. My guess a previous tenant dumped acid down a plugged drain. Due to me getting old and poor health my twin sons are going to take on running the rentals for 50% of the rent. If I have to start chemo again there’s no way I can deal with it. At least the tenant currently living in the house has been very patient. She didn’t mind the temporary fix of the kitchen sink and shower draining into back yard. Five years no big problems with her. Her rent is never more than a few days late. One one occasion she was without running water for a few days and never complained. The main water pipe going into house burst behind a wall. Tried fixing it myself and the soldered joints leaked. 

Doc Hess I know Dr’s aren’t supposed to get sick!! A couple years ago I ran into my X’s neuro surgeon in a cardiologist office. Surprised that he recognized me and we struck up a conversation. My best friend’s daughter worked briefly as his receptionist and I knew he was a gun guy. I asked him if he was there for a routine wellness exam. He told me the problem in words no layman could ever understand. He was irritated mentioning he was in the waiting room for about 30 minutes past his appt time. Saying Dr xx better have a dam good excuse mentioning he closed his office for the afternoon and was going to be late for another appt he had.
 

I quit that cardiologist after discovering he was a commie and his wife an ACLU lawyer. As we concluded my previous visit I asked him about the then new Obozo care. He was all for it and belly ached about the system. Telling me there is something wrong when some Dr’s get a new Beemer or Porche every year and I guy like me is driving a two and a half SUV. He asked if if I ever wondered why Dr’s parking lots are hidden from the public. Seemed to me he was more concerned about his paycheck. He was however highly recommended by other Dr’s for his ability to do heart stints others wouldn’t do. On one visit I was telling his PA how to buy a gun on the internet. The PA’s mother a Philadelphia Detective was retiring and he wanted to buy her something fancy as he said like a chrome Dirty Harry gun as a retirement gift. The Dr overheard our conversation as he walked in looking at me “that’s illegal”. As I tried to explain the process of the gun going to a FFL. He then remarked something about it should be illegal. Guess his ACLU wife brainwashed about the evils of guns. He told the two of us had had a 40 “ever hear of that”. Telling us he had to get rid of it when he got married. His PA asked him what kind of 40 he had and he didn’t know.
 

The PA called me at home a few days later and I emailed links to distributers like GrabAGun, CDNN and my favorite Centerfire Systems. Told him he’d have to contact Smith & Wesson’s custom shop to get the fancy felt lined wood case. The PA told me about a local dealer I recommended. He told me they gave him a bad time they don’t like black people and made a joke about his younger brother inheriting dad’s whiteness.

On the Arkansas barbeque I suspect being a start up business they wanted to have something unique. Most barbecue joints use a descriptive like Kansas City, Texas, Southern style and one that’s now gone was named Genuine Okie Barbecue. I was disappointed as it’s the first barbecue joint that didn’t have sweet potato pie. The gal told me we’re working on it but for right now it’s just me and my husband. Can’t complain though as she gave me a card for a promotion from one of the food delivery services. $12.00 bucks off my first order of 20 or more. I asked her who eats the discount. She said we split it with the delivery company. Tonight I had Burger King, a Whopper, Spicy Chicken and a bag chicken nuggets for my dog. Felt like kicking myself realizing I could have had a barbeque sandwich for about the same price. 
 

Several years ago I loaded some ammo with black powder just to make a point with a shooting friend. For some reason he thought my guns would be destroyed or blow up with black powder. I did 30/30 and 44 Mag, at the range my friend put distance between us as I first shot the Ruger 44. I figured out how foolish I was later as I cleaned the guns. Took a bit of elbow grease scrubbing the Marlin’s Micro-Groove barrel shiny again. Way back then, late 70’s or early 80’d there was a local custom bullet mold guy that attended our gun club and also set up at gun shows. He set up a display using the old strike anywhere match heads for a powder charge. He would scrape a match leaving the chips and powder at the bottom of the case then clip the heads into the remaining space then crush the heads down while seating the bullet. My bud was sure it was dangerous. After I had such a bad experience cleaning up the black powder residue I decided not to try it with the matches. Guess one could use matches in a survival situation but I’m not sure if strike anywhere matches are still manufactured or if plain Jane matches would work. 
 

Sorry again for the long winded post, I’m obviously bored silly watching tv all day. 

[Dr.Hess]

I've read of using match heads for powder.  Even primers, which were rebuilt by taking the anvil out, pounding the cup flat, putting the match stuff in, putting the anvil back in, putting it back in the case.  I think the strike anywhere were used, but I seem to recall someone using non-strike anywhere also, but that's vague.  Power was down, of course, and clean up was pretty rough.  Uh, "corrosive."  Strike anywhere matches are almost a thing of the past now because the meth labs were using them for the phosphorus. 

 

Hope your health problems work out, Dave.  Mine are minimal by comparison, but serious enough now.

[AzRednek]

My blind buddy has a relative that reused percussion caps using stick match heads. I was told about it years ago and assume he was likely using the strike anywhere type. He claimed he learned about it in a survivalist manual. 
 

When I was a kid we’d wrap the stick match heads with aluminum foil then ignite it. The matches would fly away like little rockets 2-5 ft away. Don’t know why but as kids we thought it was cool to hold a stick match in our fisted hand and light them up with our thumbnail. My friend got a nasty burn as part of the match head got stuck under his thumbnail and burned. 

[AzRednek]

5 hours ago, The Zen Master said:

Damn brother I am GLAD I never became a landlord! A person has to have thick skin for that career...

I can't even get started talking about doctors and appointments I will blow a brain fuse. Our vaunted paragons of society on Wall Street are turning medicine into Walmart, just like everything else.

We would be better off if there were more doctors, specialists especially and competition. I had a GP I really liked but he retired the day after his 65th birthday. Any how got good news from Oncologist today, no chemo!! Radiation really zapped the tumor and it didn’t spread. 

[Dr.Hess]

That's good news, Az.