Boolits by Hess

[manureman]

   I asked for mold recommendations about a month ago and got some good advice from Doc Hess and Az , and Doc was kind enough to mail me some of his .44 cal slugs.

  I was hoping to find a bullet I could use in my .44 revolvers and lever guns in both .44 mag and .44special, and believe I’ve done just that.

   I was worried that my lever guns might not want to feed the 44 specials after reading about some having that problem but in my rifles (Rossi 92s) they actually feed slicker than the magnums . 
   And I’m very impressed with the powder coating. I started with 44special and worked my way up to maximum magnum loads in my guns.

  All shot very good and I had no problems with leading. I don’t have a crony so I’m using my reloading manuals for estimates on velocities and that’s in the 1400fps range in the revolvers and a rough guess of 200 or 300 FPS faster out of 20 inch rifle barrels. 
   I loaded up till I had ejection problems in the revolvers and the same load pierced a primer in a lever gun then I backed off a full grain. 
   I had a few of the to hot load still loaded so I pulled them down and was surprised to see that even after being crimped very ,very heavy ( to feed properly in the Rossi’s and being pulled the powder coat still looked great and the diameter was unchanged . To say I was surprised and impressed is kind of an understatement ! 
   Doc I hate to keep pestering you but I don’t see a bullet profile in Lee’s current catalog that matches what you sent me , could you please give me the number off your mold . And do you recommend a 2 or 6 cavity mold? And what size sizer are you using ? They work so good I want to stay as close to what your doing as possible.Thanks again 

           Jim

       

[AzRednek]

Several years ago when I got into casting this is what I used in my Rossi rifle. Slid through like a hot knife through butter in both Special and Magnum lengths. Have to use a real heavy crimp when loaded for mag velocities in a revolver as the slugs may sneak past the crimp and move forward. I tried several various cast 44's and this one was the hands down most accurate in my Rossi lever rifle especially with hefty Special loads. Second most accurate was the Lee 240 but did get sticky occasionally in my Rossi especially in mag length. I loved it in my Charter Bulldog for hot Special loads. Also lacking a Crony but using published estimates one can drive it considerably faster than the heavier 240 without the painful but not especially pleasant recoil. 

I guess a good way or probably better said collloquial definition the 429434 is a semi round nose and semi flat. Doesn't have the medplat of a semi wadcutter but enough there to break bones if used for hunting. This bullet was designed way before powder coating and I'm not sure if there is enough surface to do the job. I lubed and sized them the old fashion way using a gas check. Unfortunately the 429434 has been long discontinued. Got my used double cavity off of Ebay. Previously had a single I found at a gun show later selling it on EBay. I'll look tomorrow and see if I have any castings left, if so I'll send you a few. An interesting side note, Lyman recommended it in 44-40 sized to .427. 

Another "fun" 44 is the 429303. It's a Spire point and net chatter claims when cast hard at 44 mag velocities it will penetrate most Kevlar. The rumor mill says Lyman buckled to pressure from ATF and discontinued it along with the 357 version. Can't use the pointys in a lever action mag tube because the sharp point could easily ignite a primer from recoil. According to claims on the Cast Boolit board they will penetrate enough to crack an engine block. Some of the board claims were obviously exaggerated. A story for another day I do know somebody in an act of revenge ruined a guys engine with black tipped 06's. Back on track there is a caution with the pointy bullets. They are very prone to ricochet, not something one would shoot around rocks or mountain back stops. 

Ill see if I can find a picture. Might be difficult as Photobucket has my files and library so forked up it might be lost. Cost me 7.50 just to get access then I could only view four pictures at a time out of hundreds. Photos used to be in order by the date they were uploaded, now they are all scrambled. Few nights ago when we were posting old family photos. I spent a good deal of time looking for a hottie relative's picture dressed in her 1920's flapper girl out fit. I gave up after looking for more than an hour. 

[AzRednek]

Found this 429303 mold photo on the net

[FC]

I have a Rossi 92 in .44-40. It was a horrible feeding gun until I sent it to Rossi Specialists. It's really accurate.

[Dr.Hess]

I think this is the mold:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010208562?pid=520228

I'll check today when I go out to the shop.  It's important to tune it up as I described in the other thread prior to using it.  Stake the pins, etc.  I size them with a Lee sizer at 0.429".  6 cavity molds are great for really chucking out the bullets, but costs go way up, availability is limited, it's more weight to deal with, more mistakes, etc.  I have a big 6 cavity Saeco in 230 GR 45, but I think that's it.

The powder coating is fantastic.  Really the way to go for cast bullets.  I've taken a powder coated bullet, put it on the vice, pounded it flat with a hammer and the powder coating stays on.  It is even still on the bullet after it hits the target and backstop.  And I've pushed those bullets up way past 44 mag velocities in the 429 Desert Eagle.  "They Say" it is almost as good as a metal jacket as far as how hard you can push them.

[manureman]

    Az thank you sir I’d never seen that pointy one. I’ve yet to cast my first bullet , what’s your opinion on 2 vs 6 cavity molds. 
    Tony did you send your Rossi to Steve’s guns? I ordered a video and a parts kit from this guy , it made a world of difference but I’m sure someone who’s done more than a couple would have the experience to get better results than I did. 
   Both my guns are early models and have the front sights on the barrel band, they’re probably fine for my use but I’d like to have them converted to barrel mounted. Was your Rossi guy reasonable on price and turn around time.

     Jim

[FC]

That's the guy.

[Dr.Hess]

OK, the ones I sent were not that 200gr linked above.  They were the 240gr from a Lee double cavity 429-240-2R mold, UPC 3430790341.  Can't find where I bought it.  I did buy the 200GR above and have experimented with them.  I think I can make some real speeders in the 429DE with them.

[AzRednek]

2 hours ago, Dr.Hess said:

OK, the ones I sent were not that 200gr linked above.  They were the 240gr from a Lee double cavity 429-240-2R mold, UPC 3430790341.  Can't find where I bought it.  I did buy the 200GR above and have experimented with them.  I think I can make some real speeders in the 429DE with them.

That Lee mold looks awful close to the Lyman 429434. The exception being the gas check indentation on the Lyman. Doc I never got into the powder coating but my guess the gas check is not necessary if you’re driving them fast without leading. You mentioned the coating staying intact after shooting has me thinking about what effect it may have on expansion. I recall casting some either 44 or 45’s with near pure with just enough tin solder to get a good fill out in the mold cavity. My experiment failed as I didn’t bring enough water filled gallon milk jugs and the slugs were not not stopped, went clean through.

My goal was to reach the same expansion as the factory Winchester Silver-Tip which is really impressive even at 38 Special or 45 ACP velocities. I did learn later the Silver-Tips are actually jacketed with a very thin aluminum jacket over a core that some clams on the net saying it is softer than pure lead. A poster on the Boolit board claimed the lead core is alloyed with Mercury. I felt the poster was speculating not having any first hand knowledge or expertise. I’m not even sure Mercury and Lead can be alloyed although I’ve heard or read somewhere NASA has alloyed some metals previously thought to be impossible.

Manureman, haven’t had a chance yet to get to my cast bullets. I’ll try and get at later and see what 44’s I might have. 

[AzRednek]

6 hours ago, FC said:

That's the guy.

Tony could you please post the Gunsmith’s contact info.
 

I bought three Puma Rossi levers in the early 90’s being closed out at a pawn shop for only  $179.99. I intended to buy five but they closed up. I was buying one a month. I got a 38/357 Carbine, 44 Mag and 45 Colt. I kick myself for not spending another lousy ten bucks for 45 Casull instead of the 45 Colt chambering. The 357 Carbine will not cycle 357’s but works like a charm with 38’s. The 44 Mag tube even with a metal follower will jam up if I put more than three rds in it. The 45 Colt is about as perfect as it gets. It swallows and digests smoothly every different 45 bullet I ever tried. No signs of over pressure or extraction problems using Ruger Only 45 Colt loading data. 
 

I also wanted a Rossi in 41 ( not 44 ) Mag. The pawnbroker’s son showed me the catalog listing the 41 but claimed they were never shipped and were on back order for a few years. The pawnshop was huge, claiming to have over 5,000 guns in stock. They had an exclusive west of the Mississippi distributorship with Puma. Long story short. The parcel of land purchased in the early 30’s downtown property the pawnshop sat on sold for over 4 million. The Rossi lever actions changed hands after Rossi sold out the revolver division to Taurus. I believe the lever action part of Rossi changed hands 3 or 4 times. I’m not sure who wound up with Rossi shotguns. Whomever had the Rossi lever actions after it was passed from Bangor Puma did not have 41 or 454 listed in their catalog. He told me the 460 and 50 S&W were on the drawing board but I don’t believe it ever happened. I’m really surprised that Marlin or Henry hasn’t chambered a lever action in the monster 50 S&W.

[Dr.Hess]

Here's the mold:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010204539

 

Here's the sizer:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018523537?pid=750061

 

I size them after they are powder coated.

 

[FC]

I'm pretty sure this is the guy: https://store.stevesgunz.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=6

[AzRednek]

This the one I was thinking about. I used it until I found the gas check Lyman. It flowed well through my Rossi. A bit shorter and lighter than Doc’s with a flat nose. A member of my gun club uses it for his Cowboy Action Shooting. 

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010208562?pid=520228

If you ever want top quality and are willing to spend the bucks, check this guy out. Usually a lot of options, various cavity sizes, hollow point, with or without gas check and often 6 cavity molds can have mixed cavities for example 3 solid and 3 hollow point or mixed with half gas check half not. Brass molds are available but I’ve never discovered why it’s preferred over aluminum or steel. 
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?osCsid=39d28ds7utl267bs868qui3dc3

These are supposed to be the very finest. I have one of his for 41 Mag. Cost me about $110 about ten years ago have no idea how pricey these days. I got it with different pins for various types and depth hollow points. I never got much use out it but it was a real pleasure to work with. He has options like a 44 in 429, 430, 432 sized cavities and if I remember right 2 or 3 sized cavities around 427 for 44/40. He’s expensive and he’s located in (come on spell check!) Slovenia. Money has to be converted to Euros, easily done via PayPal and today wouldn’t want to estimate postage from East Europe.

 https://www.mp-molds.com/

 

 

 

[manureman]

   Thanks guys I sure appreciate all the advice, I’ve ordered both molds and the sizer so I’m getting closer.

          Jim

[Dr.Hess]

One other thing I'll mention is that when I run the powder coated bullets through the Lee sizer, regardless of the size (429, 30, etc.,) I put a little lanolin on my fingers every few bullets and kinda wipe the bullet lightly with my fingers every 3 or 4.  It really helps them glide through the die easy.  You can get pure lanolin at Walmart in the baby section.  It's sold as "nipple cream" for nursing mothers.  I bought a tub of it for ten bucks from Amazon. I bought this

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000I1OYNK/

five years ago and still have a huge quantity remaining.  I use it for leather, case lube when resizing, bullet sizing, etc.  It is a fraction of the cost of the little tube at Walmart or a drug store.