.45 ACP Disappoints

[FC]

I've reloaded .45 ACP for my Tommygun at abotu 930 fps. 230 jacketed (thin copper coating), and Hornady jacketed hollow point. The hollow points don't feed well and fails to load about every two rounds. Anyway, I shot at my old pressure washer pump, which looks like aluminum/manganese alloy, or something like that. Steel components in the center. Hollow points put a nick in it, and shot off one leg of the pump. Solid points knocked it off the 2x4 , but no evidence of damage. Some time ago I shot a toilet. I had to be close to crack it. 

[Dr.Hess]

Pretty sure they were made for shooting people, not toilets or pressure washers.   Maybe horses too, but mostly people.  They will also not penetrate a car door as well as a 9MM, if that's important to you.

 

[FC]

The hype about .45s I've heard all my life appears to be all hype. I've watched Paul Harrell's .45 ACP demo against two layers of clothes, pork ribs, and simulated lung tissue. Yes, it will do that job, but I'm used to most anything in my arsenal being able to go through metal. Well, it sent a defective spray paint can flying way up in the air, but that's about it for excitement.

[FC]

For real?!

[FC]

Why I love my .30-30 and SKS.

[FC]

Looks really nice except for that terrible crack. I don't know about you, but when I was a kid I'd look at the Sears catalog rifle section. I so badly wanted a .30-30 or a Weatherby. I have a 1951 Winchester Model 94.

[AzRednek]

On 4/21/2020 at 10:13 AM, FC said:

The hype about .45s I've heard all my life appears to be all hype. I've watched Paul Harrell's .45 ACP demo against two layers of clothes, pork ribs, and simulated lung tissue. Yes, it will do that job, but I'm used to most anything in my arsenal being able to go through metal. Well, it sent a defective spray paint can flying way up in the air, but that's about it for excitement.

If you can find it, I read it years ago in Frank Barnes’ Cartridges of the World. There was a good article about the Army testing the 45ACP before they adopted the 1911 on live animals in a Chicago slaughter house. Even way back then just after the turn of the century. Once the animal lovers found out about the testing it was stopped on live animals and the tests continued on butchered meat. From what I recall as it has been 30 or more years ago I read it. The army was concerned about penetration as the 45 ACP was slower and bullet lighter than 45 Colt. 

[FC]

I'll try to find it online.

 

[AzRednek]

10 hours ago, FC said:

I'll try to find it online.

 

Probably be hard to find. I believe Barnes authored numerous editions annually before his death. When I toured the FBI facility in DC. I noticed as we passed the lab area. They had a book shelf containing all his editions. Unfortunately the loading data was removed from his latest editions. I was told it was due to a couple of misprints and law suits. I found one under 41 mag. His suggested starting point using 2400 powder exceeded max data for 44 mag. The earlier editions were great for data of long obsolete and oddball cartridges much of what he took an educated guess. 

[AzRednek]

I did a net search and couldn’t find it. Best I recall the Army team was headed up by some military surgeons. They were studying the 45ACP wound characteristics on live tissue when pressure from the animal lovers stopped it. Guess it is kind of cruel but the animals were headed for slaughter. I don’t have any idea how animals were dispatched back then but I don’t if it was any more humane than being shot. 

[ken98k]

I once read the army went back to the 45 from 38 caliber due to experiences fighting the Moro's in the Philippine–American War.

I recall shooting at an old car door with a 45acp . The bullets didn't penetrate , just made large dents, but the bullets I found on the ground were flattened out to quarter dollar size. 

[AzRednek]

Back to Frank Barnes. When he studied metallurgy in college his prof claimed it was impossible to drive a soft metal through harder metal. He showed up his professor by shooting lead bullets through cast iron frying pans and a galvanized steel bucket. Best I recall it was 45 caliber but don’t remember if it was ACP or 45 Colt. Barnes claimed his prof was cold to him for the remainder of the semester giving him just a passing grade.

Years ago casting Lyman pointy spire points with a rich mix for 44 Mag. Reading on the Cast Boolit board they would penetrate an engine block, I tried it. On an abandoned farm an old rusted out tractor was left behind and was riddled with bullet holes. The first shot did not penetrate the engine but did leave a crack in the block. Never found the bullet but did find the gas check. It left what could be best described as metallic dust at the impact point. Took a second shot aimed at but missed a freeze plug. Hearing the sound of a near by ricochet wizz by us, I stopped. Later shooting clean through about a 3-4 inch trunk of a Mesquite tree. I was shooting a 10 inch Ruger Super Blackhawk and if I remember right loaded with 20.0 grs of 2400. Guessing again I believe the bullet weighed about 215 grs.

Internet chatter claims Lyman discontinued the spire point molds after pressure from ATF due to the bullet’s ability to penetrate Kevlar. 

[AzRednek]

On 4/21/2020 at 4:30 PM, The Zen Master said:

I know a Phoenix cop that got shot in his ballistic vest with a .45 - he was able to draw HIS .45 and shoot back, but he missed. They arrested the p.o.s...

 

Karl don’t know if you were here several years ago when the Tempe female cop got hit with a 9MM. Her vest stopped the perp’s bullet, she returned fire, emptied her mag and killing him. From what I recall she needed surgery later as the bullet hit a boob. Hearing it from an acquaintance 2nd or 3rd hand from a Tempe cop, she had a saline implant rupture. Cop also said she was put on permanent light duty being fearful of going on the street. 
 

About the same time, it was either a Tempe or Gilbert cop was shot at but missed. He attempted to return fire and it was a dud round. Numerous police depts from around the country got involved with the investigation. I heard or read Glock blamed the ammo and Remington blamed Glock. Last I heard, the dud round and pistol were shipped to the FBI lab. I never did hear if they came up with a conclusion.
 

Being in the news today, the passing of Ken Osmond AKA Eddie Haskell of Beaver fame. In real life he later became a California cop and his vest saved him after being shot in a chase.

[FC]

This was a can of yellow squash. Hollow point. Maybe .45ACP and I will get along after all!

[AzRednek]

About 20 years ago a nearby Home Depot was selling slightly damaged bags of drywall mud dirt cheap. My self as well as other shooters were buying it up for ballistic tests. Most everything I shot with handguns simply left holes. I hit one with a 45 ACP Winchester Silvertip H/P and the bag literally exploded. 38 and 9MM jacketed HP’s left a clean hole. The only other explosive result was a 41 Mag soft nose. I’ve preferred the Silvertips since. I can’t buy the hype of other bullets as I very seriously doubt I’ll ever need to shoot through a car door or windshield. 
 

Tthe Silvertips aren’t cheap but I’m confident using them. It’s a very soft lead core HP with a very thin aluminum jacket. Home Depot quit selling the damaged bags as plaster messes were showing up all over the desert areas. 

[AzRednek]

6 hours ago, The Zen Master said:

All I carry are 230g Federal Hyrda-Shok JHP's in my HK USP Compact. I never thought I would get old enough the thing is heavy - I need a Glock 36 for walkin around with.

 

I’ve read a lot of praise of the Hydra Shock on the net. I recall watching a YouTube gelatin test and best I recall the 40 cal hydra Shocks having better results compared to Remington, CCI and one other likely Winchester or Hornady premium SD ammo. About 35 years ago with young eyesight. I kept meticulous notes doing bench rest shooting. The Federal 270 in my Remington 760 was the most accurate and it also had the highest published muzzle velocity of all the biggies except Norma. I tried very hard to to match Federal 270’s shot to shot accuracy on my reloading bench but couldn’t get close on paper.   

My best friend and shooting bud claims there are only two kinds of ammo, Federal and everybody else. He does however admit to carrying Buffalo Bore hard cast in his 44 Ruger Super Blackhawk. His daughter’s summer home is in Montana bear country. Guess if I had to pick a favorite ammo brand it is Federal. I’m fond of Norma but they have priced themselves beyond ridiculous. 

I’m still partial to Winchester SilverTips for handgun SD ammo. The SilverTips were carried by practically every lawman back in 38 Special revolver days. The SilverTips are really getting hard to find. About a year ago I found a 50 rd box of 45 ACP SIlverTips at United Nations Ammo. I was hesitant as the box was dusty and looked old. Currently the SilverTips are now sold in 20 rd boxes. After seeing the $59.95 price tag. I put it back on the shelf. No way being a cheapskate will I pay more than a buck a round for handgun ammo.

OK guys I’ll shut up now and quit keyboard rambling again. It feels like the Ambien might work this time. 

 

 

[FC]

Ambien? Hard to get that now.

I used Hornsby hollow points, reloads, but they don’t feed dependably.

[AzRednek]

9 hours ago, FC said:

Ambien? Hard to get that now.

I used Hornsby hollow points, reloads, but they don’t feed dependably.

I can get the Ambien if I beg!! Dr writes Rx for either 10 or 12 and it has to last apx two months. The Rx I have was filled back in January and there are four left. My X got dependent on Ambien taking it every night after bringing back a large quantity from Nogales. The generic blue pills were repackaged into Mexican water pill bottles by the pharmacy making it easier to get through the border. She had a problem with pills and shortly before she moved back east I caught her Dr shopping. 
 

I had a compact Taurus 45 that was totally unreliable with anything except round nose FMJ’s. The short time I carried it concealed. I put a SilverTip in the chamber and the so called GI ball in the mag. After finding the manual online, Taurus recommended only using the RN FMJ’s. I recall handloading some hard home cast slugs that duplicated the GI ball that worked ok but after a couple FTF I wouldn’t trust them with my life. I traded the Taurus away. 

[FC]

Ambien caused terrible delirium in some of my inpatients; I hated the stuff!

[Dr.Hess]

Those benzos are the worst drug ever discovered.  I've seen more damage done by them.  When I did geriatric psych at school, there was a woman in to dry out from them.  She should have had "DO NOT PRESCRIBE BENZODIAZAPINES TO THIS WOMAN" tattooed on her forehead.  It would have solved all her problems.  Another man completely pickled his brain on them, to a point of just crapping on the carpet in piles in his house.  He eventually was transferred to the permanent "big house," only one in Texas that did long term committed patient care.

[AzRednek]

My X would do and say strange things after taking the Ambien but usually she'd just fall asleep. I think she was taking two at a time. I’m chicken and cut mine in half. She was charming my surgeon and others into writing her Rx’s. She was also getting Ambien and another pill from a shrink. I confronted the Surgeon after he wrote her a Rx in my name. I found a written Rx in her jewelry box with my name on it. I had a pharmacist stamp and void it then later that day I showed it to the surgeon. I very emphatically told him to no longer hand her my Rx’s. Telling him she had a bad drug problem back in the late 60’s. A long story but my X’s mother was murdered possibly from their involvement with what I was told were named White Crosses.

 A few weeks later the surgeon did it again shortly after my X’s Dr cut her off Vicodin. He wrote a Vicodin Rx in my name and handed it to her. I’m allergic to Vicodin it causes tiny skin blisters. I had a temporary bracelet put on my arm before going into surgery room alerting of my allergy to Vicodin, Tylonal and another I just can’t recall the name that causes me to sleep walk. Despite the warning bracelet he handed her a Vicodin Rx in my name. I filed a board complaint after he failed to return numerous phone messages I left. By the time the formal hearing came up she had already moved out but I followed through. I had no intentions of filing a suit and was satisfied burying him with paperwork. Board ruled something to the effect of failing to manage patient care after surgery. I had declined the pain meds in previous minor surgeries telling him I had plenty of pain pills if I needed them left from my Chemotherapy and Cancer treatment. I never bothered to see surgeon’s written response as I have to appear in person at the medical board to see it. Then there is some kind of bureaucratic hoops before getting copies.
 

Afterward I was treated coldly, more or less shunned by Dr’s and RN’s I saw in physical therapy, especially the Dr that recommended the surgeon. Dr’s use the hospital PT lab to work out and exercise. I just switched to another facility but recently returned there after some falls from possibly fainting. I only got a few sessions in before the Chink Stink closed it down. I’m not sure why but my Neurologist was pretty persistent I go there or another PT facility way over on the other side of town. The hospital’s PT facility is on my insurance PPO making the billing convenient.  If I get treaded rudely again I’ll just start wearing some of my redneck t-shirts and speak like a drunken sailor. One Dr I miss from the PT facility unfortunately I forgot his name. We were close to swapping one of my AR’s for his series 70 Colt 1911. He claims it is minty and has the original box and paperwork. He wanted, hopefully still does a paperless AR or AK. After the PT opens up I hope we cross paths.

[FC]

“Chink Stink”, that’s funny!

[AzRednek]

On 6/2/2020 at 4:42 AM, The Zen Master said:

Just ordered a Glock 36 from J&G - 45ACP of course! My USP Compact is just to heavy too carry anymore

I had to go look at J&G web page. Must have been a good price as it appears they no longer have any model 36 in stock. Is it a police trade-in? I usually open J&G’s spam and they do occasionally have some good buys on trade-ins. Their S&W revolvers though are over priced especially for long distance buyers.
 

J&G is about a 90 minute drive each way from my Phoenix home. I have a hate/love feeling visiting their showroom. Although it’s been a few years.  I often go with one thing in mind and wind up making impulse buys nearly every trip. Just curious Karl, I hear J&G is now charging Arizona state sales tax to out of state buyers??