TLynn Posted July 3, 2005 Report Share Posted July 3, 2005 farktoof 1 Posts: 1 (6/9/05 6:09) Reply Bolt handles -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Jerry Kuhnhausen's book he recommends re-heat treating a bolt after welding a new or modified bolt handle on.Even when using a heat sink and heat control paste. Is it really neccesary when taking all these precautions, and if it is, where do you get it done and at what approx. price? When you forge the existing handle the same applies and according to him the forging process uses alot more heat than just welding. Great forum you guys have here, tragedy what happened to all the posts though. Clemsongunsmith 1 Posts: 285 (6/9/05 6:21) Reply Re: Bolt handles -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Properly done with the heat sink and heat control paste, TIG welding a bolt should not alter any of the wear surfaces. I have never re-heat treated a bolt. I have heard of bolts whose cocking cams were softened in the handle-forging process, but properly done forged bolts are OK, too. I generally live by the Kuhnhausen recommendations, but the heat treating ones I take as "recommendations" and not as "Necessities." I would probably change my tune if faced with a receiver with unknown parentage or obvious abuse or a bolt with discoloration from high heat. Clemson US Army Veteran NRA Life Member NRA Certified Instructor CWP Holder Garand Collectors'Association z1r 1 Posts: 2804 (6/9/05 7:10) Reply Re: Bolt handles -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Why don't you use the heat treater's he recommends: Blanchards in Utah. Clemsongunsmith 1 Posts: 286 (6/9/05 9:22) Reply Re: Bolt handles -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If I were going to use a heat treater, I'd use Blanchard. Unless I have reason to think that an action or a bolt is unsafe, I don't go through the heat treat process. Military Mausers were not made from steel that hardens with heat/quench cycles. Their carbon content is typically too low for that. Their wear resistance comes from a skin on the surface. They are pretty soft underneath. They may be very tough, but they are typically not very hard underneath the case. If the case hardening of the cocking notch and bolt lug recesses is not altered in some way, I don't normally go to the heat treater. Don't take that as a recommendation -- it is just the way I have handled my actions. Clemson US Army Veteran NRA Life Member NRA Certified Instructor CWP Holder Garand Collectors'Association Clarkma 1 Posts: 382 (6/9/05 18:47) Reply Re: Bolt handles -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kuhnhausen's book drove me nuts. It is lecture notes processed by an obviously lazy editor. I worked through the scatter brained organization, because I wanted to sporterize a Mauser in 1999. We made action truing mandrels for Turks and for VZ24s based on the prose description in the book. Likewise for inner C ring lapping tools and lug lapping tools. So I guess I got something out of the torture. Reading Walsh's book on sporterizing Mausers, it is written between the lines that he wrote the book because he was so angry at Kuhnhausen's book's organization. I have never had anything heat treated, and I shoot very hot loads in Mausers and 91/30s. The only reason I can think for Kuhnhausen's book to ascribe so much heat treating is for adding fees to gunsmithing. I do not let Dentists x-ray me, and I would not let any gunsmith send a Mauser of mine out for heat treat. I have a Thermodyne 4800 Watt 2000 Degree F furnace for heat treating, but I am not going to put any Mauser parts in there. Not unless I make them from scratch. I weld and I bend Mauser bolt handles, and I am careful not to get the straw color to reach the cocking cam at the rear of the bolt. I use welder's paste, and a home made butressing thread brass heat sink to keep the bolt temperature under control. Doble Troble 1 Posts: 481 (6/9/05 19:00) Reply Re: Bolt handles -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have Kuhnhausen's Garand book and share Clarkma's opinion regarding his organizational style. It's all in there, but not easy to get it out. Maybe some find the style straight-forward...different strokes. I won't be buying another one of his tomes and will probably EvilBay his Garand manual that is collecting dust in my shop. I've devolved to Roy Dunlap's method for welding bolt handles - stuff it with a wet paper towel, wrap as much of the outside as you can with a wet rag and OA weld the thing on. I start from the back, turn it over and do the front, and then take care of the sides. Build up layers and add more material than you think is necessary. Too little and you'll have a dip to fill and you have to cook it twice. If you think you cooked the cocking cam too much, heat it cherry red and drop it in a bucket of water (Edit: heat it cherry red with a carburizing flame - a little rich on the acetylene adds carbon [i think - seems to make steel hard]). Another tip: grind the root of the handle thin before you try to weld it (1/8 - 1/4") and add material over it. The welding's easier than the grinding and filing afterward. If I was a better welder I suspect this wouldn't be true. This is my current VERY Bubba approach - good luck with whatever approach you take. I am Bubba (but learning) Edited by: Doble Troble at: 6/9/05 19:05 Clemsongunsmith 1 Posts: 287 (6/9/05 19:35) Reply Re: Bolt handles -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, guys, I have to say that I like the Kuhnhausen books and don't find them at all disorganized. Different strokes, I suppose.... I don't have a thing against those who choose to heat treat their Mausers. I just don't see the need for the ones that I have worked on. Clemson US Army Veteran NRA Life Member NRA Certified Instructor CWP Holder Garand Collectors'Association tanglewood16137 1 Posts: 319 (6/9/05 19:54) Reply Re: Bolt handles -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- well when i tig weld on a new handle it never gets that hot i can grab bolt in hand clear down to middle of guide rib and not get burnt. If your good you can get on and off very fast not like O A its much slower and more heat needed to make a weld puddle tig is very concentrated. Rod z1r 1 Posts: 2810 (6/9/05 22:32) Reply Re: Bolt handles -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I too liked Kuhnhausen's book. It is maybe not organized as well as it could be but Walsh's book is pure crap. Not a damn thing in it worth the price of the book. The possible exception might be the plans for the D&T jig but if you have spent the money of rthe book on the jig you'd have been better off. Clark, I'm glad you don't try to heat treat mausers in your little oven, you'd ruin it. Unless you also possess the means to add carbon to the outer layers of the action you would justbe wasting your time. Your oven would be very handy however for heat treating other high carbon steels. That much I envy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FC Posted July 3, 2005 Report Share Posted July 3, 2005 Thank you Lynn for posting this good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLynn Posted July 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2005 Glad you don't mind FC. I'll continue as I can moving as much as I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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