M-16 Sighting In Problem

[FC]

I can never seem to get zeroed on the Army range for the countable targets. I zero on the small sighting-in targets, then go up a click for the real targets. I did horrible, even though I nearly cloverleafed the sight-in target. I am not allowed to sight in on the actual ranges the targets are located.

Any solutions? Hard to come up with solutions when everybody shoots differently.

[Guest karl]

Ok. first define "horrible.

 

We may be able to figure something out>

 

Take care

karl

[FC]

23 out of 40. I think, but am not sure that I hit high right. There was little breeze. It was 102 degrees. I know a hot barrel caused elevation. Targets are pop-ups. I am guessing 25 to 300 meters.

[Guest Uncle Alvin]

First: Are you using your sling? if so, is it tight enough to see your heartbeat? if not....tighten it.

Second: Do you wear glasses? if so, try to move the face or frames so that you are looking at the target thru the center of the lense.

Third: Breath Control: Make sure to draw three normal to deep breaths before starting your trigger squeeze, then allow half of the last breath to escape.

Fourth: Follow Through: Do not raise your head as soon as the shot breaks! try to keep your body and mind still untill the rifle has completely cycled.

 

If your rifle is properly sighted and you follow procedures as taught......your scores will rise......now....GET OFF MY FIRING LINE YOU LOUSY LITTLE FAGGOT AND QUIT YOUR WHINING!

[karlunity]

The only thing I would add to Uncle's gentle advice is be mindful of trigger squeeze.

Push in with the web of your trigger hand as you draw your trigger finger back.

Make sure that you clean the rifle before you fire for record.

Some prefer to fire a "fouling shot" this depends on you.

 

Take care

karl

[FC]

I followed the right mechanics. I did cloverleaf the sighting in target. However, I couldn't get my glasses centered on the sight. What I really think is that I need to be able to sight in at the range I am shooting, which isn't allowed. Up one click doesn't do it. We can't clean in between sighting in and firing for score.

I do not have a problem hitting my targets with any of my other rifles, and I have a bunch of them.

[Guest karl]

FC.

 

If you have an AR-15 of your own and shoot well with it, the problem may be in the rifle.

Small issues that may not be apparent on the "900 inch" line will GROW once you got to 300 and 500 meters.

 

What is the rational for not allowing you to clean your rifle?

 

Karl

[FC]

My brother has a M4 clone civilian model. He isn't going to want me to change the sights. This may end up being a great unknown.

These are armory rifles, and probably have had the heck shot out of them at the range. Being 102 degrees and having a hot barrel doesn't help. The shots did climb a lot. Makes me like my SKS; I can hit junk with it.

 

On the range they give very specific commands. You aren't allowed to do squat until when and if they say so. You know what though? The next time I go I could take that cleaning kit you sent me and clean it if I have to wait between sight-in and range fire. I did notice the powder these shells were using made a fair amount of smoke. More fouling? Barrel didn't look real bad after firing.

[Guest Uncle Alvin]

It will be hard to diagnose the exact cause, if you were shooting at paper you could see the impact point of the projectiles and correct the hold. I can only suggest that you ask a R.O. to spot your misses, there are so many vagaries in individual weapons that identifying and rectifying a problem is difficult even if I was standing behind your position, see if you can exchange weapons with another shooter for a magazine or two, this will tell if it is you or the weapon.

[FC]

I'll take the advice of you folks and figure out what to do next go-around.

Thanks. Have a good weekend.

[gun nutty]

I've shot the popup course.

 

You're using A-2s? We used A-1s... No "click-up". Set the sights for "Battle-Zero" using the sight-in targets. If I remember correcly, the sight-in targets had a sqaure that was 2" to 2.5" below the target bull; all shots went in there. We sighted-in at 10m (pistol range?).

 

If you are able, sight-in already "clicked-up" at the closer range. See where the rounds land. Should be around 2" below the bull at the closer range. If that's the case, it's all on you . There are battle-zero target for the closer ranges. I actually prefer the A1 sights where you "set-em and leave-em".

 

The Army pop-up course is fun... Like shootin' prarie dogs. The foxhole position is a hoot. I just had to do a full Navy qual at 200m... 2 hours getting crisp in the sun, then another 2 hours roasting while raising and lowering the targets for the group that relieved us.

 

 

[FC]

Yup, pop-ups and using A-2's.

Did I read you right- 2 inches below bull on the sighting-in target? I was dead on target on the sighting in. I had to go about 6 clicks up for the sighting in target, then, as the day got hot, and the barrel too, I had to come down at least two clicks, then still needed to go lower.

[gun nutty]

http://www.armystudyguide.com/content/army...ero-targe.shtml

 

May have been 1.5" down from the center of the bull at 25m. I wish I could find those targets on-line.

 

You said "up" a couple times. The directions say "down" after zeroing on the target. If you are dead-on at 25 meters, you're shooting way high at 200, 250, 300, and 350 (I think those are right). My guess is that you are shooting over the targets.

 

When I sight in my rifles at 25 yards, I need to be at least 1.5" low to get about 3" high at 100 yards (30'06, 7mm mag, etc.). This is only for "rough sighting" and to get on paper. Once I'm centered and low, I move back too 100 yds for final sight-in.

 

For a .223 52 grain Speer HPBT with a BC of .25 and a muzzle velocity of 3100 fps and a 300 yard zero:

 

muzzle: -1.5" (I'm guessing 25m should be very close to this value)

100 yards: +4.3"

200 yards: +5.3"

300 yards: 0.0"

400 yards -13.8"

 

After zeroing and moving the sight back to the 300m position, can you fire a couple to see that you are indeed below the bull? Some Range Masters are nice. Some are just plain mean, though.

 

[FC]

I went up, thinking I would compensate for drop. Guess not! Thanks for the link. I'd never heard of it.

[Jimro]

Ok, by now you probably know everything you need, but I'll go through the process for history's sake.

 

To zero the M16A2 at the 25 meter range you mechanically zero the weapon so that the base of the front sight post is flush, the rear windage adjustment is centered, and the elevation adjustment is only one click past the "300/800" setting.

 

Firing three shot groups and using the appropriate zero target adjust the Front sight post for verticle adjustment and the rear sight for windage. If you maintain your sight picture you can zero easily. Changing your sight picture will cause all sorts of problems.

 

I tell my troops to get their head as far away fromt he charging handle as is comfortable, what this does is make the rear sight arpeture "smaller" so that it is easier to keep the front sight post centered in the circle. This works for me and I recommend it for most shooters who want to increase their score. Most days I shoot "Expert" and I've gone 40 out of 40 twice (Both times by the grace of God).

 

Now, once you are zeroed and head over to the 300 meter popup range, click the rear elevation knob BACK to the "300/800" setting, what this does is change your zero from 25 meters to 300 meters.

 

Hold center mass for the 300 meter target.

Hold slightly below center mass for the 250 meter target (the most commonly missed target I've been told).

Hold about 3/4 down for the 200, 150, and 100 meter targets.

For the 50 meter "Fast Freddies" aim for the ground line at the base of the target.

 

Remember the BRASS fundamentals and your score will go up quite a bit. Crosswinds are a beast, but you should never have to "lead" any of the targets except the 300 meter target by half the front sight post unless the winds are really brutal.

 

Good shooting.

 

Jimro

[FC]

One click past 300/800 (Go up?)

 

Lots of people had only 16 rounds in their magazines. I lost count. I think the dummies who were loading were lazy and didn't count.

[gun nutty]

On the link I provided, the sample target shows (step 1) to move it up (right) one click. After zeroing it on the target (step 3), you move it back 1 click (left, which is down).

 

There is a link at the bottom of the linked page that goes into great detail on the full battle zero A2 procedure:

 

http://www.armystudyguide.com/content/army...6a2-rifle.shtml

 

[Jimro]

Each click of the rear elevation knob corresponds to 1/2 minute of angle. Because the sights are so far above the bore on an M16A2 it isn't possible to zero the weapon at both 25 meters and 300 meters with the milspec load. The zeroing targets were set up to be zeroed at one click past 300/800 and then clicked back to 300 to set the zero at 300 meters.

 

If you leave the rear elevation knob at the 300/800 setting and zero the weapon on the 25 meter target then you will be shooting high at 300 and higher at all closer ranges. You can still qualify, you just have to aim a tad lower. Since the difference is one half minute, you could theoretically "zero" by turning the front sight post a half turn in the "up" direction if you forgot to zero at a click past 300/800.

 

Jimro

 

 

 

 

[karlunity]

Thanks Jimro.

It has been a LONG time since I shot an M-16 and those were the M-16E1'S : )

I had forgotten the drill.

 

Karl