Doble Troble Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 If I had copper sulfate I'd use an equal amount of it in place of the chrome alum. Detergent-containing Bluing Solution 1L 500 ml Ferric Chloride 66 gm 33 gm Chrome alum 18 gm 9 gm ETOH 20 ml 10 ml Nitric Acid 15 ml 7.5 ml Selsun Blue Shampoo 25 ml 13 ml Dawn detergent 25 ml 13 ml H2O 890 ml 445 ml Dissolve Chrome alum in ETOH, add water, ferric chloride, shampoo, detergent and finally nitric acid. Shake to dissolve shampoo and let sit overnight to eliminate foam prior to use. Degrease parts thoroughly prior to use (I use a hot detergent/lye soak, followed by brake cleaner – after this I try to avoid oil, but don’t worry about finger prints, etc – the detergent takes care of incidental oil contamination). To apply bluing solution, moisten a clean piece of cotton and dab on metal. Just moisten the metal – less is more. Place part in humid environment until red rust forms over the entire surface. Under good humidity conditions, a fine-grained, red rust will form overnight. Soak part in scalding hot water to soften rust, allow to dry and cool, and remove black residue with 000 steel wool until all loose material is removed and the finish is smooth. If you leave loose material you may get little “pimples” of rust that are tough to remove. After the first pass you may not see much bluing. Resist the temptation to suspect that you are wasting your time, and proceed with additional passes – unless it’s stainless it will blue. Six passes are usually produce good results, but this varies depending on the steel. If in doubt, do more runs! When bluing is complete thoroughly oil the part and put it away for a couple of days. The finish will somehow harden over a couple of weeks. I have oiled-up barrels only to find that the finish was thinner than I wanted somewhere. I have successfully performed additional bluing passes without removing the oiled finish by simply degreasing and bluing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fiream29 Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 That's an interesting and unusual recipe for bluing. How deep is the color/luster when viewed under a strong white light? Just as an aside, some of those chemicals have some fairly nasty properties and should be understood thoroughly before attempting to handle them. Nitric Acid alone will probably get you reported if you try to purchase it at your local chemical supply house. It might even get you raided and charged with "terroristic activities" if you happen to have a few other common household chemicals around the house and happen to be blessed with one of the looney LE agencies that seem to be the norm nowadays. That may sound outlandish at first blush but San Antonio cops just recently busted a man with some pot and charged him as above because he had several gallons of Acetone, MEK, etc. in his garage. He was a Painter by trade. Certain chemicals, unusual quantities of fertilizer (ammonium nitrate), black powder, etc. will get you put on a watch list so fast it's pathetic and in this day and time who needs that? I'm not meaning to sound paranoid but it's a lot easier to avoid legal problems than it is to extricate yourself from them. Here’s a link to a MSDS that gives info on the Nitric Acid mentioned above and you can find others like it on every chemical or compound you can think of: http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/N3660.htm Good Luck and be careful. fiream29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montea6b Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 DT, I admire your do-it-yourself attitude. Seeing "Selsun Blue" really cracked me up! Are you sure you're not having a little fun with that one?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z1r Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 DT, Our mutual friend was quite impressed with the inclusion of Selsun Blue in the formula. The old master said we were both to be commended for thinking outside the box. He seemed quite impressed with your persistance. I wonder if you've tried substituting CuSO4 for the chrome Alum as you previously indicated? If not, do you still think it might be worthwhile? He indicated that Browning only added the selenium to the process during the final couple of coats. He seemed to like the idea however of using it throughout the process. His thoughts were that it would produce a much nicer finish and more durable to boot. You may want to market this and closely guard your "secret" formula! I spent about two hours with him on the phone last night and 15 minutes was easily devoted to this topic of bluing. I learned an amazing amount. -Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doble Troble Posted July 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2005 Well, I've been trying to respond for days! Monte...no joking...the Selsun Blue may be a key ingredient. There's some anecdotal evidence from a good source that suggests that selenium may help the quality of rust blued finishes. I was struggling to find a reasonably-priced source for soluble selenium when Z1R brilliantly suggested looking into dandruff shampoo. Sure enough, Selsun Blue contains 1 % selenium. Z, I'm glad to hear that our mutual friend is pleased. I'm pretty sure I exasperated him with a bunch of lame questions. I have been trying to put his advice to good use. I don't know if adding selenium has been "magic", it may just be that I've gotten more practice but the two barrels and actions that I've done with Selsun Blue added have been noticeably better than prior work. It may also be better humidity now than last winter. I don't have to use a humidity box right now - the shed works great. If you guys want to try some of the current formula let me know and I'll try to figure-out how to package some for shipment. I haven't yet tried CuSO4 in place of the chrome alum. As you know copper is the traditional ingredient and I'd use it if I had some on hand - and I recommend to anyone planning on buying chemicals to use the copper sulfate. I may actually order some just for this purpose. 29, Regarding potential trouble obtaining chemicals - I'm kind-of "in the business" and so have access to all of this all of the time. If I were on the outside I'd order it all anyway because I'm not going to let terrorism stop me from doing what I want. If it means FBI agents swarm down, I'll try to be polite and offer them all a cold beer...as long as no one gets shot while they're swarming. If so, no beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fiream29 Posted July 31, 2005 Report Share Posted July 31, 2005 29, Regarding potential trouble obtaining chemicals - I'm kind-of "in the business" and so have access to all of this all of the time. If I were on the outside I'd order it all anyway because I'm not going to let terrorism stop me from doing what I want. If it means FBI agents swarm down, I'll try to be polite and offer them all a cold beer...as long as no one gets shot while they're swarming. If so, no beer. DT, my post wasn't aimed at you or anyone in particular. Just meant to be a cautionary note and food for thought to the average joe that frequents forums like these. If you are "in the business" then I'm sure you're well versed in the properties and hazards of handling these chemicals but considering the number of people who manage to blow themselves up with gasoline on a regular basis most people are not. As far as the "FBI agents swarming down" well, the more time they spend looking at you or someone else the less time they will have to look at ME and that's just the way I'd like to keep it . fiream29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doble Troble Posted July 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2005 29, no offense taken, I'm just not the cautious type (except about reloading, maybe)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 The mention of having large amounts of ammonium nitrate on hand reminds me of the days I would buy it by the ton, several tons at a time. It takes about 300# of 33% ammonium nitrate fertilizer for a an acre of corn. What some others do with it beats the schitt out of me. I like to just heat up the hot bluing tanks and use Brownell's Oxynate #7. Has not failed me yet, and I ain't got all week to do a bluing job. fritz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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