I made a deacon mad

[FC]

I'm a Christian, and not just by name. I'm not above calling a goat a goat when I see it.

Picture this- Killeen, TX, not exactly the money capitol of the world. I was going to join a church (SBC) that is moderately large, with a population dominated by Army and ex-Army. The pastor is a very gifted teacher and speaker, the music is largely chorus/ comtemporary music.

They are pushing "Project 31". I about had a caniption fit when I saw a slick, Madison Avenue style Powerpoint presentation on their building program. The sanctuary is fairly full, but not bursting at the seams quite yet. Parking is challenging, but not impossible. They have a, brace yourselves, 6.5 million dollar building program in mind! Is there a church in Africa or south of Mexico that cost that much? I sure as heck doubt it. There are churches that could use members; why not tell folks, "Go to brother so-and-so's church, they have room".

I have met in non-air conditioned storefront churches, met in hotel meeting rooms, a couple of times in a bar on a Sunday morning at the same hotel (nice chairs!), at the lake, at the river, in sheet metal all purpose buildings. I have been on several building programs. We did a lot of the work ourselves.

Well, I wrote the church, which is something I rarely do. I really riled up one of the deacons. The old boy wrote me a pretty terse letter. I guess he didn't like my post card (like Mr. Postman spends his time reading other people's postcards).

I told him that it's not "All for Him, it's all for us". That was the song on the Powerpoint presentation. "Build Me a house, restore my walls which are fallen down". Gee, I don't see any walls fallen down! Well, Project 31 is a suggestion of $31 per week. Nope, I'm not doing it. The Project 31 flyers in the pews, the Project 31 crossword puzzles too. The signs along the walkway, and the thingies stuck in my windshield wipers.

Time to find a simpler church.

I made a decision- heck, I blow over $30 going out to eat with the wife. I spend more than $30 buying guns. I have enough stuff. I decided to sponsor a boy with World Vision in Albania, and I'm thinking of a girl too. They haven't got squat. To heck with our stupid building programs. Let's get back to the basics here.

I don't say this to toot my horn, because I don't deserve a "toot". There are good churches out there, but man, we Americans are absolutely spoiled rotten!

[manureman]

You did the right thing Tony.I went through about the same thing several months ago,the church needs to expand but some want to add on some want to just build a new building....folks got to fussin' and wanting me to take sides and bla bla bla....not at all what I was wanting out of a chuch,so I got to just staying away.Your idea about the kids is a dandy and I thank you for it! Jim

[Emul8]

FC --

 

First off, your sponsorship of the needy boy in Albania is a very human thing to do, and it is a startling contrast to a church trying to put an unnecessary squeeze on it's congregation at $31.00 per week. I too think that you did the right thing by stepping up and writing to the church leadership to voice your concerns around it, even if it appears to have fallen on deaf ears. What you are doing by seeking to join another congregation is affirming your own beliefs, and that's as it should be.

 

Back when I lived in Oklahoma, my Uncle was a deacon in a SBC church, and they did something very similar to what your church is doing...they squeezed everyone for every cent they could get, guilted the youth groups into foregoing their yearly ski-trips and instead contributing the money to the church coffers, and expanded the church. A year later the church had to move to another location because it was still getting too large for it's initial location. A much smaller congregation took over the old location, and they got a heck of a deal on a newly refitted property, while my Uncle's church had to get everyone to cough up more and more dough in order to get a huge property intended to accommodate them for years. My Uncle's daughters are still attending that church, and are still plugging away as volunteers to the cause of the unending funding of their church's relocation. Where's my Uncle? Attending his very large church in Colorado....

 

There is definitely something wrong here....

 

 

[Jimro]

I distrust organized religions simply because the first order of business for any organization is the continuation of that organization, no matter what their mission statement says.

 

I respect the men and women of God who take nothing and build up a body of believers.

 

But like anything, poor couples don't argue over money until they get some, and often churches are the same way. The church leaders may see a need to expand the buildings, and if it is really a need a new church building will be built. However, if there is no need then Project 31 will fail, and divide the church.

 

Jimro

[FC]

These Army folks aren't made out of money. Build what you need and use moderation. Why not build a little at a time, as needed? While building, consider the churches that meet across the world under bamboo.

[Horsefly]

The bigger and nicer the church is,the bigger the membership will be.The more successful a church appears to be,the more successful people it will draw in,and the more the members can afford to pay a successful preacher that caused all this to happen.MONEY,MONEY,MONEY!!!! The little country church I was raised in but don't get back to very often,75 miles away,would have a big day if 50 showed up.They don't even pass the offering plate.If you can give an offering,you can mail it to the secretary or just hand it to him after church.You feel like you've been to church when you leave there.It's not a fashion show or a place to go fuss.Jerry

[Sailormilan2]

The my church used the Gym for the school where I went. Then the church finally got financing, and built a real church. It is still there, being used, after 40 years. I must belong to the wrong church.

[karlunity]

Try "Shepherd's Chapel"

 

It is on cable and the Pastor is an old Marine.

 

He believes in the right to carry arms..backs the war and tells folks NOT to send money if they have not enough to cover their expences or are on fixed incomes.

He sells books and tapes on religion, some of them, the ones I have are very good.

Even if you are not of his demonination, you will learn about the Bible as Pastor Murray reads it" chapter by chapter and verse by verse"

 

Karl

[fritz]

Jerry,

 

My church (a small rural Lutheran church) sounds much like your's. Many in the congregation make monthly donations, as their funds permit. Naturally, there are some wealthy members who give more than others.

 

But we have always been at odds with the synod when they keep asking us for to send more for this or that "world relief". Mrs fritz got a little aggravated once when they asked us to support a group in Angola that was nothing but communists.

 

So it goes with organized religion. I am not one of those who feel they can get their weekly dose of religion by watching a TV preacher or by attending a drive-in service. I am old fashioned in the way I worship.

 

But I would not give $31 a week for a building project. Maybe $31 a month.

 

Let's be realistic. It sounds like the church Tony attended was not made up of wealthy folks. And $31 a week is asking a lot.

 

fritz

[FC]

Nope, they're not wealthy. 6.5 million is outrageous! I'm told that it is realistic for a standard building design: choir practice area, kitchen, parking lot, larger sanctuary, more classrooms. For Pete's sake, there is vision, and there is just plain loco! Well, the wife and I will keep looking. The kids, esp. the 12 y/o really paid attention to the sermons, which is a loss. I will just buy the CD's of the sermons I guess.

 

Karl, Sheperds Chapel must be a California thing; I've never heard of it.

[Horsefly]

Here in the big city,those kinda of churchs are on every corner,and I've come to a conclusion that there sole purpose is to make the church the members whole life.The reason I say that is,most here have daycare,and some 1 through 6 school,gyms,outside basketball courts,cafeterias,movie theater,and the one right down the street has a bowling alley.The folks leave their kids early in the morning,pick them up at 6pm,and take them every night to some kind of youth group,party,or movie,and in the summer there is vacation bible school,and youth retreats.My brother went to one here and his kids were only at home to sleep,the rest of the time they were at a church function.I think they are raising their future members,trying to keep them on the books.Those kids are going to be raised the sheltered life the way the church thinks they should be raised,and that's a good thought,but what about when they go off to high school and are dumped in the real world.There's a lot of truth in the old stories about the preachers kids.My Grandfather was a Methodist minister,and he wouldn't have wanted a million dollar church just to be the biggest and best in town.When a church here remodels and expands,the next one down the road will be next.They're a lot like car dealerships.If one hangs a big American flag out front,the next dealership down the road puts up a bigger one.I reckon a preacher of a 3 million dollar church has a higher salary than one preaching in a school gym.I'm not down on religion at all,until it's a business.Jerry sorry about my spelling!!

[odies dad]

A building project can make a church grow or tear it apart. We added on a nice fellowship hall to our church a few years ago so we could get out of the musty basement. Most of the work was done by volunteers. Many days there were more volunteers from other churches than from our own. This is somewhat a community facility as well. We house the local food shelf and have the fellowship hall available for other functions as well. This was a $100,000+ project but we got enough donations from the congregation and the community that most of it is paid for already.

One of the side effects of this project was growth of the congregation. It went from a bunch of retirees to one with young couples with little kids.

We did loose a few members who didn't get their way, but overall it has been a good move for our church.

[Guest karl]

Karl, Sheperds Chapel must be a California thing; I've never heard of it.

FC

 

 

No, He is based in Cravette ark.

 

Take care

Karl