Making Some New Lead?

[Brenden]

hey guys, got a question for ya. Has anybody ever fooled around with the .308 case much? I was thinking the other night and took some .308 cases and ran them through the 8mm mauser die and came out with a case and bullet combination that i think i'll like. Thought it would be best of both worlds....the 8mm-08. I love the 8mm and 308 and thought y not. I can see a few good outcomes of this case, short action, better bc, maybe a little less powder...depending on how one loads, and using two of the greatest cals. ever of course. I just thought that hey....the 308 likes to loaded to the max...(atleast in my gun), so why not make a short action 8mm cal. that can be pushed to the max as well. when i say pushed to the max..velocity may not be very fast...maybe around 2800-2900 if ones lucky, but i think that this would be one kick ass brush beating deer killer....let me know what you think..maybe i'm crazy, or my luck, someones allready done this and hated it. if ya'll think this is a good cal..i may be in the market for a good custom gunsmith....let me know and thanks.

Brenden

[cold shot]

Well now, I'm listenin'. Had that same idea about 2 years ago. I too think it would be a cool cal to have...7-08, 308, 338 fed, why not a 8-08. Works for me. Gonna check out my reamers an see what I come up with . My boss gave me about 35 reamers rangein' from 1/4" to 3/4 " Keep us posted on your idea. Dave

[Brenden]

Well now, I'm listenin'. Had that same idea about 2 years ago. I too think it would be a cool cal to have...7-08, 308, 338 fed, why not a 8-08. Works for me. Gonna check out my reamers an see what I come up with . My boss gave me about 35 reamers rangein' from 1/4" to 3/4 " Keep us posted on your idea. Dave

 

 

dave thank you! gald i'm not the only one that thought about it. what i'm thinkin is that basically it would be a 308 case with a .323 opening and the only couple things that would change is the shloulder diameter? (.351 upper, and lower .431) (i wonder if i'm correct in my illerate termonolgy?) and the length from the rim to the shoulder(lower- 1.827, upper- 1.933), and to the neck,(2.240 or slightly larger) and of course the neck (.323). I dunno...not too keen on this stuff, just got into reloading and been trying to think of sumthing! Dave if you've got the reamers...i can make a few shells and send em to ya..and maybe we can be cool together and have some kick ass 8mm-08's!! I believe i'd know a little better on the measurments if i owned a caliper..(i'm getting one this week) I'm gonna shop for an action,but i'd rather have a mauser...wait...what about a Mosin? I believe a Mosin would work...but i think i can think of sumthing better..let me drink on it I have no tools to work with...only ideas so Dave, the time has come my friend...lets do this!

Brenden

[Spiris]

Here ya go boys!

 

 

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=85893519

 

 

Spiris

[Brenden]

Here ya go boys!

 

 

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=85893519

 

 

Spiris

 

Spiris,

hey thanks for the link. i visit gunbroker often and must have over looked this one. I e-mailed the guy to try to find out just what he went by, and asked about the action and loads. Whats a good action for a short shell like the 8mm-08? I was thinking a mosin..but maybe we'll need something a little stronger. your help is appericated. thanks

brenden

[Spiris]

If your heart is set on carrying thru on this project, the still relatively cheap m24/47 or m48 actions would be, I think, ideal for the conversion. These short actions fit the 308 series much better than say the Turks longer action, not that they can't be used. But check things out before you proceed because it entails more than just reaming a barrel. The dies for 8mm-08 are probably quite expensive too.

 

Spiris

[Brenden]

If your heart is set on carrying thru on this project, the still relatively cheap m24/47 or m48 actions would be, I think, ideal for the conversion. These short actions fit the 308 series much better than say the Turks longer action, not that they can't be used. But check things out before you proceed because it entails more than just reaming a barrel. The dies for 8mm-08 are probably quite expensive too.

 

Spiris

 

thanks again Spiris. I'm still thinking but i really want to do this. I know a guy in TN named Bill Vanfossan that could do the barrel for me. He did a 308 for me 2 years ago and it was awsome..and cheap i feel (150 for barrel and put on) Do i really need 8mm-08 dies, or can i get by with running 308's through the 8mm re-size, and then just trim them to a certain length? I don't know the exact length but its just gonna be a touch longer than 308. I dunno...i'm young and inexpirenced but i'm also presestient and quick to learn so i may have hope yet! If i do go through w/this i'll go w/a m48 yugo. This may be a dumb ass question but....does a 8mm to a 308 need a bolt change? I'm thinking no but i'm prob wrong. What kind of feeding problems am i going to have w/a 8mm-08 being shorter and all? I dunno..keep giving me info and i'll make up my mind for sure. And damnit DAVE, where are ya?? strait shooter is m.i.a. guyes. thanks!

Brenden

[Spiris]

Couple things, the bolts are the same headsize so your ok there and you can use the expander button to open up the 308 to 8mm but you cannot resize the case neck to hold a bullet because the 308 case is too short to size in the 8x57 die. Also the 308 case is fatter at the shoulder than the 8x57 by .024". You could possibly modify a 8mm sizing die to give you what you want. It would be less costly doing a little grinding on a lee die than having a set made. Shortening it and carefully opening up the shoulder area would do it. All you really need is to size the case mouth to 8mm without altering the basic 308 dimensions if it's used in only one rifle. You do need tools and common sense to do a good job.

But if you get down to it, really an 8mm-06 makes much more sense. It's a simple conversion, and has the capability of maybe a couple hundred FPS more than a 8mm-08 would have with the same bullet.

 

Spiris

[cold shot]

M.D. I do have a 8mm-06, it's a very accurate rifle. I can throw a 220 gr hdy sp out @ 2650 to 2725 depending on my load. O'course I'm using a k.kale w/ 29" barrel. I love it throwing 180gr nosler btbt's @ 2900 max load. But it is a shoulder kicker for sure. It's my go to gun for everything from yotes to elk etc. Just my .035 worth. Dave

[Brenden]

thanks guys. i know i'm stubborn sounding but i'm hell bent on this 8mm-08. Spiris, how much you figuring on the 8mm-08 dies to cost? I've got the money and i'm willing to pay.(now single after 2.5 years,) more money for the toys I dunno....i looked at the 8mm-06 and i admit i like the case and the ballistics are freakin awsome, but you know how it is i just want to be diffrent. I looked at guns today and decided on a 24/47, think i'll buy it with in the next week or two...the cost is 198.00 from a dealer and i think this is a little high...how bout you all? Spiris, by grinding are you meaning by cutting say, 1/2 - 3/4 inch off the 8mm die it would then work and be able to expand and also re-size the case neck and sholder? I was dickin around last night and noticed it wasn't getting the neck to .323 dia. so i see what you mean there by it being shorter, just got kinda caught up and didn't think much about the 308 being shorter at first..(i know i'm a dumbass) well i'll go back and look over the 8-06 a little more, i know it won't be as expensive to build and prob not such a hassle, cuz i may try this one on my own instead of shippin it off, maybe have the local gun smith help me and of course you guyes. i thank you all so much for helpin me and i'm glad i found this site!

Brenden

[Spiris]

Lee precision offers a custom die set production. A setup charge of $130.00 plus $38.00 per two die set. You have to know what dimensions you want. That's the easy part if you continue to want a 8mm-08. Then there is the cost of a custom reamer and the smithing required to cut the 8x57 barrel back to allow the proper chamber reaming for the shorter case. You see what I mean? And ya, cutting the 8x57 die length down with a chop saw or something without loosing the temper could work.

8mm-06 dies are available at MidwayUSA. Chamber can be reamed without removing the barrel although you might want to cut the barrel down to be handier and recrown it. I would pick up a Turk K.Kale on gunbroker to take advantage of the longer action but you need to get one with a good barrel, sometimes hard to do. The other converted Turks that's available are either short action 1903's or are the conglomeration of parts put together near the end of ww2 and some after. The 24/47 and 48's really are too short magazine wise to be able to seat the bullets out properly with the 06 case. K.Kale's are the only actions that I have used for my rebuilds except for the VZ24 in 6.5x55. I have a 270 win, 8x57 With new swedish commercial barrel, 22-250 and 243 win, all with Remington barrels except the 8x57 and 6.5x55.

Well, it's getting late for me and I'm sure we'll continue the discussion.

 

Spiris

 

 

[Brenden]

can anybody say shot down. Spiris, all i gotta say is holy ######. I figured...aww 50-$75 for a set of dies for the 8mm-08. damn. i think i'll just leave the 8-08 alone for a while. so, here we are, the 8-06, since you put it in bold print, i can see where you want me to go lol. i looked again at the ballistics and i admit i like em'. Is the kick from one a monster, i've got a J.C higgins fn made 06 thats pretty light so i'm used to kick, but i'm a wuss, me and kickin guns don't get along anymore. i was thinkin about a 7mm-08 for the t/c encore but maybe i should do a mauser in it. I just want something diffrent, as you can tell. I kinda like the 24/47, except for the intermediate length action and all. is it possible to get the 8-06 to fit? I looked at the OLA for 8mm and 8-06 and the 8mm says- 3.250 and so does the 8mm-06. I've just always shyed away from the turks, i've heard horror stories on them and i've seen more than one that was "rode hard and put away wet". I just need something to keep me occupied and keep my mind off ######...ya know what i mean? This is were i find peace, re-doing guns and talkin bout them. I don't mean to come across as an arragont a-hole to you and hope i don't. just young and big dreams. If you like the k-kales, then i'd say their allright, cuz you know what ur talkin bout. I'd like to find a vz24, but i know there not in the surplus any more. I'm gonna go check out gunbroker for a kale and see whats happening. The barrel don't matter to me cuz i want a new shiny one:) Spiris, thanks for your help..maybe some day i can buy you a steak dinner

brenden

[cold shot]

hey MD, got my reamers an' gettin a wild hair 'bout buildin' an 8mm-08. Got extra 8x57 fz dies,extra 8x57 lr barrel. gonna get workin' on it an'see what shows up on my bench. I'll keep ya informed of any progress or dissipointments, OK? BTW, the 8mm06 w/220gr hdy sp's are a definate mule w/ full load. 'course it will get the job done for sure. As for the intermediate actions, I could'nt say cause I don't have any,just k.kales vz24s an'yugo m98 size actions. I only load my bullets 1/4 " in the neck like thee germans did so I opened up my box an' the ramp was modified. Works for me. Later Dude, Dave

[Spiris]

MD, if you want a 8mm-08 then you should go for it. I'm not trying to talk you out of it. I'm basing my suggestions on the fact that you do not have a lot of experience and what would be easier for you to do on your own. But you only learn by doing. You do have to know how to use verniers and have some patience. Perhaps it sounds silly, but the Gunbroker auction that I pointed out in a previous message is really a good deal if you break down the costs of the dies and components and having a scope. I would guess you're actually paying less than $200 bucks for a completed rifle in a caliber that you want. Food for thought. Think of what you would have invested in buying an action and having a smith do the hard stuff that you cannot do plus the dies and components. The cost of the custom reamer alone would probably be over $100. I have not seen any of the reamer rental sites have this reamer in stock, but someone reamed that rifle on Gunbroker. I personally parkerize all my rifles and coat them with Duracoat finishes but it is a lot of work to prepare the metal for finishing but gives you personal satisfaction when it's done. I guess that's what it's all about. Many people on this site know the feeling of a job well done and the pride that goes with it.

 

Spiris

 

 

[gun nutty]

Mauser dude:

 

Have you looked at the .338 Federal?

 

It's a .308 Winchester necked up to .338. It's just a pinch bigger than what you originally wanted, but the dies, reamers, and brass are all "off the shelf".

 

I think going .338 will give you everything you were expecting out of the 8mm, at a significant cost reduction. I'd also say that the bullet selection will probably be a little better too.

[Brenden]

spiris,

hey and thanks again. I appericate your thoughtfullness, and i see your point. Man if i just had the tools and had somebody to show me how to do it a couple times, i'd have no problem. Just the money to acquire the tools is enough to send me into debt, its easier for me to have somebody chamber the barrel and fit it to the action, and cheaper. I'll let dave pull his hair out first on the 8mm-08 and i think i'll go ahead and make a 7mm-08 instead of buyin a barrel for the t/c. I'll acquire more expierence soon, i learned alot on the last one i'm pretty good in fittin everything to the stock and i do my own bluing, and it looks like factory if i don't say so myself. I've re-did about all the guns in my community and made a pretty good profit from it too Minor technical issues i can fumble through, but again if someone would just show me once.... but hey, this is the fun of it....i'm assuming everyone started out like this. I appericate all that you have contributed, and i'm learning from ya. like my dad said, ask questions, keep your mouth shut when someone talks and you'll learn alot! I'm gonna shop around for an action, may go ahead and go w/the 24/47. the last one was intermieadate length and wasn't too much trouble so why not another. Thanks again.

 

Dave, good luck on your build, remember i'm wanting to learn something here so walk us through step by step. Maybe later on i can start one on my own. Thanks Dave.

 

gun nutty- havn't looked at the .338 fed, i think i'll stay away from this one. my mind is telling me its gonna be a cannon with some punch on both ends! but hey it won't hurt to take a look i guess. thanks.

[gun nutty]

You think a .338/.308 is a cannon, but the 8MM/.308 isn't? This isn't that different than the .270 Win VS. the .280 Rem; same base case, one caliber difference, overlapping bullet weights.

 

We're talking ONE caliber here. The 8MM is closer in diameter to the .338 than the .308. The 8MM shoots heavies too. A typical 8MM load uses 196 to 200 grain bullets. The .338 Magnum has a very popular 210 grain bullet load. I don't think you'll even feel a difference at the buttplate.

 

I don't believe that either the .338 Federal or your 8MM/08 will offer more recoil than stout military 8X57 loads using 196 grain bullets. Perhaps you're underestimating the 8MM Mauser?

 

 

[Brenden]

gun nutty, no i don't believe the 8mm-08 is a cannon because all i shoot in my 8mm's are 125 honrady and sierria 150 spt. I have no need for a huge chunk of 196 gr or 215 gr tree cutters, i make my own shooting lanes with a chainsaw When looking at the 338 balistics, a 215 bullet traveling at 2900fps is good in that cal. put that bullet in a short 308 where you can't stuff 70 + grains of powder, i'd rather throw a bowlin ball at em'. I don't load heavy....no stout loads in my guns. I'm not for stout loads because i've realized that: when your only shooting 200 yards max, a deer doesn't care if your load is max or 5 grains under, or if you hit them with a 100 gr hollow point or a 300 gr atom bomb, same results...venison. just my 2 cents, thanks for the info.

[cold shot]

Hi MD, Thanks for the vote of confidence. I only,like you shoot 125 hdys and 150's in my 8x57. the 180,200, 220, and 250's I shoot in my 8-06 an' 8-300 mag. I'm going to ,this weekend to make the reamers for the 8-08. I'll try to have my wife take pics of the process in makeing the reamers. I use 2 different reamers to do the barrel, like I did the 8-300. My bed is callin' me , so later . Dave Ps. In all my load books, the 8x57 can equal or out run a 308 if loaded to european loads.

[Brenden]

Hi MD, Thanks for the vote of confidence. I only,like you shoot 125 hdys and 150's in my 8x57. the 180,200, 220, and 250's I shoot in my 8-06 an' 8-300 mag. I'm going to ,this weekend to make the reamers for the 8-08. I'll try to have my wife take pics of the process in makeing the reamers. I use 2 different reamers to do the barrel, like I did the 8-300. My bed is callin' me , so later . Dave Ps. In all my load books, the 8x57 can equal or out run a 308 if loaded to european loads.

 

Dave, wish you the best. People like you make it eaiser for me to do things right, i love a good demonstration. I've just never been a big fan of big bullets, big bullets mean more kick from my expierence. I tried 196 gr in the 8mm mauser and it kicked the ###### outta me, so back to the 125-150's. yeah in my sierria the 8x57 is w/a 150spt loaded with imr 4895 is @2800fps, max load 50.5 grains. I just don't feel comfrotable loading to the max in a gun, old or not, i'm more for accuarcy then fast. when i want fast, i pick up the 7 mag, its loaded under max about 3.5 grains and still traveling @3000 fps. Holler at you later.

Brenden

[z1r]

Seems like an awful lot of work & $ to end up with a cartridge less powerfull than the original.

 

Here is an 8x57 Yugo M48 I scoped for my buddy. I welded on a new bolt handle too. Take a look at his groups on a very windy day:

 

 

 

 

The .338-08 or .338 Federal as its now called is a pussy cat to shoot. You won't get 2900 fps with a 210, not even close.

[Brenden]

"looking at the 338 balistics, a 215 bullet traveling at 2900fps is good in that cal. put that bullet in a short 308 where you can't stuff 70 + grains of powder, i'd rather throw a bowlin ball at em'.-mauser dude

 

Z1r, i know you won't get 2900 outta the 338 fed with a 210, i was quoting the ballistics of the 338 win. guess i should have been more prescise. I don't need a gun that slow or throwing that big of a bullett for deer, its not pratical. Thats why i'm building the 7mm-08. its all i need. 120 grain hollow points @3000 fps, its a good combo for me. I've got a m48, i know what it can do, all the faith in the world in it.

brenden

[cold shot]

hey mauser dude. I took a cobalt bit and reamed the neck of a 30 cal sizer die to .341 " then took a 308 cart that was opened up to .358" OD then neck sized it thru the modified die. It was resized to .341" OD w/ a .315"ID. when I pulled a 8mm expander thru it ,the ID was then .318''. The 8mm bullet had a .005'' neck tension against it. The bullet was very snug. Next step in this wildcat endeaver is to shorten the barrel by .275" then rechamber to .308" cart size. Should be out load testing by new years Day. I'llpost pics of the finished prject soon. Dave

[Brenden]

yeah man! love it when a plan comes together. I need to quit school and get a job so i can start on my 280 project. Its killlin meee! Anxious to see pic.

Brenden

[Doble Troble]

I'll second Z1R's suggestion on this one.

 

I've got nothing against wildcatting and completely understand its fascination, but damn! The 8 x 57 is an excellent cartridge that isn't easily beat, and certainly won't be by an 8-08.

 

I've been thinking about an 8 x 62 lately: Run an 8 x 57 reamer into a stock Mauser barrel until a 30-06 case headspaces on the shoulder. Neck expand 30-06 cases on an 8 x 57 die and load-up some mild cartridges and fire form. You should get nicely blown-out improved 8-06 cases that you can use stock 8 x 57 dies to reload. I bet performance would exceed standard 8-06 and 8-06 AIs.

 

There might be some annoying neck trimming required though.

 

And I bet this has already been done several times.