Historical Value

[J.B]

The VZ24 and the arisaka are two different rifles, the Vz24 is sportable as it wasnt used in any war and just sat in an arsenal.

 

By the way, shame on you for taking a piece of history and making a beautiful rifle out of it

 

Just kidding, you did an excellent job on that rifle, I can only hope my M48 will be half the rifle that is.

[Due]

QUOTE (J.B @ Feb 12 2008, 05:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The VZ24 and the arisaka are two different rifles, the Vz24 is sportable as it wasnt used in any war and just sat in an arsenal.

 

By the way, shame on you for taking a piece of history and making a beautiful rifle out of it

 

Just kidding, you did an excellent job on that rifle, I can only hope my M48 will be half the rifle that is.

 

This is a big world and if people want to make a sporter that is their right. One correction however is VZ24's were used in great numbers in WW2 by German and German Allies. So to state they sat in an arsenal is not true as many did not. Do I have an issue with someone making a sporter from it? No I do not but still let us not rewrite history here. The VZ24 was indeed an important battle rifle. The sporter above looks nice and I bet is a great shooter.

[ken98k]

My very first mauser was / is an all matching numbered kar98k brought back home by a veteran and guess what HE did.

 

Sent it to a little gun shop in Southgate California and had it rebarreled to the latest super duper 300.

[z1r]

This is a big world and if people want to make a sporter that is their right. One correction however is VZ24's were used in great numbers in WW2 by German and German Allies. So to state they sat in an arsenal is not true as many did not. Do I have an issue with someone making a sporter from it? No I do not but still let us not rewrite history here. The VZ24 was indeed an important battle rifle. The sporter above looks nice and I bet is a great shooter.

 

1.5" at 200. Flaco was there to see it. This one did indeed see action in the war. It was one of the Romanians that had seen lots of service, practiclaly no finish left but not abused unlike the one I got that had shrapel in the stock, lol. I paid the princely sum of $50 for it about 5 years ago. I believe it, and its brethren, are the ultimate example of swords into plowshares.

 

I'm not a big fan of sported Arisakas but that's just me. I do appreciate the historical value of certain rifles but the funny thing about that is that as time goes on, items fall into and out of vogue. People used to think nothing of swapping barrels on their old SAA.

 

I think the world is big enough for both true collectors and custome builders.

 

Ya'll have a nice day now!

 

[Jimro]

I didnt say that the other wars werent historical, and would you hack a brown bess from the revolutionary war, it doesnt tell you a story?, a rifle want put on to the battlefield a sporter, and sporting it is just plain ruining all the history that the rifle has. There is nothing nicer than a good arisaka in original condition, a sported one is junk and it is imitating a hunting rifle when infact its not.

 

Now that is a good question, would I hack a Brown Bess? The answer is maybe. The Brown Bess was a handcrafted firearm made before Simeon North and Eli Whitney competed for a government contract for interchangeable parts in firearms. That means every Brown Bess was a handmade one of a kind, unique.

 

However I can't see myself trying to turn a 230+ year old smoothbore musket into anything but a smoothbore musket, so no I probably wouldn't sporterize it, but I probably wouldn't shoot it either. Maybe I could make some .68 to .30 caliber sabots for a fin stabilized projectile....

 

As far as that Arisaka in original condition, I ain't going to argue, but I think that the Swede sniper variants are more to my taste.

 

Jimro

[J.B]

I would get me a swede sniper if it werent for the price.

 

 

I do know that some VZ24s were used by the Japanese in WWII, I saw one at a gunshow that was captured on Iwo jima, it had a bullet hole on the upper part of the stock.

[z1r]

Vz24's were made by the but., er boatload. Many for south america in 7x57, some for the Japanese, many for the Czechs, and most that were on the market most recently for Romania who was indeed a combatant in WWII.

[Due]

Vz24's were made by the but., er boatload. Many for south america in 7x57, some for the Japanese, many for the Czechs, and most that were on the market most recently for Romania who was indeed a combatant in WWII.

 

China has these made as well.

[J.B]

I didnt have any idea about the VZ24s, I had always assumed they were just Czech military guns that didnt see much action. Thanks for all the info.

[Horsefly]

I was un-boxing a Geha shotgun I bought from Don M. about 15 minutes ago,and my wife ask if it bothered me at all that the gun might have killed people.That sorta put the lid on what I think has historical value.You cats can ponder back and forth on military rifles having historical value or not,but I'm done even considering it.If you collect them,it has collector value,to you.For me,they're foundations for a great hobby.A people killing tool may be a piece of history,but history I'd just as soon to forget. Jerry

[FC]

I agree with you. All the videos now on seeing tanks and howitzers shooting, and Seals coming onshore with guns pointed out, well, it's not playtime, it's all about killing time.

 

[J.B]

But if you ever do get ahold of an original WWII rifle that is unmessed with and not refurbed, you could trade it for a sported rifle so you can have a good project. I had almost bought a beautiful unmessed with jap rifle, with all bells and whistles(monopod, dust cover, AA sights, cleaning rod, and sling), I drove 60 miles to get it and as soon as I got there, I was handed a monstrosity in sporting, they had a guy who it was his first time cut the barrel(he didnt even cut straight), cut and whittle the stock, remove all of the good parts, bend the bolt, and tap it for a scope. It was a horrible experience and the end of a historical gun that couldve been a good piece in my collection, but they thought I wanted a deer rifle out of it and then ruined it. They still expected me to pay the price of an unmessed with rifle for it. They also bubbaed a Vietnam bringback SKS and China type 53(the womans husband was a vietnam vet who brought those rifles back, it was actually sad to see those papered guns ruined like that) and a carcano(the carcano was actually nicely done, and if it werent for the price I wouldve bought it because it almost looked like a hunting rifle and nothing like a sported military rifle, unlike the jap which I would describe as a gun abortion).

[Horsefly]

J.B,I understand what your getting at,but a nicely done sporter is as valuable to the guy that built it as a complete all matching rifle would be to a collector.Collectors are always swapping back and forth,trying to upgrade their collection,but a rifle builder usually is building family heirlooms.You see beginners botched up work just like you see a beginner driver screwing up or someones first time bowling.It's so uncommon to see a cat buy a $500.00 rifle just to hacksaw the barrel off and weld a scope base directly to the action,that it's not even worth talking about anymore.Sure,there's going to be the kid that was given his grandpa's Brazilian 1908 that's going to try and make a deer rifle like his buddies has,but it's a one time deal when he screws it up.Gun builders don't want others screw ups to use in their craft.That'd be like buying a '57 Chevy dirt track car and restoring it to show-room condition.I have some rifles,especially my Swedes that all matching with all the battle equipment that will never in my life be sporterized,unless someone wants to give me $800.00 each,and then I'll throw in a new hacksaw with each gun.I know it kills your soul to see a hard to find rifle ruined for the collector,but it maybe the very gun a shooter or hunter has always wanted.I'm lucky that I can see both sides of this and wish there was a middle ground.Bubba is a bailing wire,duct tape gunsmith wanna-be.The guys on this board are craftsmen.There's not any credit given to the builders of fine custom guns from the dudes that are satisfied with a Ruger77 right out of the box.This has been a fun thread and it's way cool that we can talk about this stuff and not be censored like that other place.Ya'll have a large weekend,Jerry.

[J.B]

Ill show you a jap sporter that I am positive is alot nicer than an original.

 

http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic...=82&t=48371

 

3rd post down, next to an original carbine. Absolutely gorgeous, and it was done right(although I wouldnt recommend sporting any jap rifles, just way to nice in original condition). I never sell any of my rifles in my collection, they are all to special for me to sell and will hopefully remain in the family forever. It is almost like the japanese had made each rifle specifically for me to drool all over and to care for, I do appreciate sites like this as it helps people make good hunting rifles right(this site is almost like a bubba cure). I hope that if you guys ever find a jap rifle and feel like you want to sport it, you can sell it instead of sporting it, or just decide to keep it the same, as it is really fun hunting with it anyway and real fun to shoot. Some of the rifles I have seen on this site almost look like high end remchesterbys that only the white collars own, but in reality they are converted military rifles in which blood sweat and tears are into the whole thing. I hope to make a M48 sporter as nice as some of the rifles here, and I may sport some other rifles as well, but a WWII unmessed with mauser or arisaka will stay in original condition as long as its with me.

[FC]

how about these?This is what I think of those who complain, "It's about the history!" of a rifle.

 

Here's the history of a rifle

 

Or how about this?

[ken98k]

how about these?This is what I think of those who complain, "It's about the history!" of a rifle.

 

Here's the history of a rifle

 

Or how about this?

 

Thank you FC.

[FC]

I have to tell ya, some of these pictures made me feel kind of sick.

[z1r]

QUOTE (J.B @ Feb 17 2008, 05:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ill show you a jap sporter that I am positive is alot nicer than an original.

 

http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic...=82&t=48371

 

3rd post down, next to an original carbine. Absolutely gorgeous, and it was done right(although I wouldnt recommend sporting any jap rifles, just way to nice in original condition). I never sell any of my rifles in my collection, they are all to special for me to sell and will hopefully remain in the family forever. It is almost like the japanese had made each rifle specifically for me to drool all over and to care for, I do appreciate sites like this as it helps people make good hunting rifles right(this site is almost like a bubba cure). I hope that if you guys ever find a jap rifle and feel like you want to sport it, you can sell it instead of sporting it, or just decide to keep it the same, as it is really fun hunting with it anyway and real fun to shoot. Some of the rifles I have seen on this site almost look like high end remchesterbys that only the white collars own, but in reality they are converted military rifles in which blood sweat and tears are into the whole thing. I hope to make a M48 sporter as nice as some of the rifles here, and I may sport some other rifles as well, but a WWII unmessed with mauser or arisaka will stay in original condition as long as its with me.

 

Sorry, but every rifle in that thread except the 71 & 88 were fugly. The stock on the sks was novel though.

 

[ken98k]

I have to tell ya, some of these pictures made me feel kind of sick.

 

Yup, I know what you mean.

Thats why I feal no remorse when I sporterize one of these.

I think even Paul Mauser would have been ashamed to see the uses they put his rifle to.

[ken98k]

Sorry, but every rifle in that thread except the 71 & 88 were fugly. The stock on the sks was novel though.

 

Nice engraving, but waisted on a jap

[J.B]

What do you mean wasted on a jap? Jap arisakas are probably the best axis battle rifle of WWII, the mauser is a piece of junk compared to the type 99, and there is no comparing the 99 with the carcano.

[AzRednek]

QUOTE (J.B @ Mar 5 2008, 09:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jap arisakas are probably the best axis battle rifle of WWII

 

Ever hear of the MP-44??

 

 

[J.B]

Okay then, the best non-automatic axis rifle from WWII. Many will try to say that the G43 was better, but my great grandpa gave away his bringback because it was terrible, it had jammed all the time and he even used original ammo in it.

[AzRednek]

Friend of mine has both the G and K 43 and the both work perfectly. The ones that were made for the Russian front eject brass rather violently and cause some problems but it is easily fixed by drilling somewhere in the gas system.

 

[J.B]

The Type 99 is a all around better gun than the G43, the one I shot was accurate, but not as accurate as the type 99. The jap rifles are extremely well made, sometimes better than the K98(especially late war ones, the last ditch German ones were dangerous while the last ditch japs are not dangerous).