littlecanoe Posted August 16, 2008 Report Share Posted August 16, 2008 Last fall I bought a 16 foot utility trailer. It has 2 axles with each axle being set up with brakes. It has the break-away switch on the front that locks the brakes if the trailer gets loose. I've set my 99 slowburban up with a brake controller. My b-i-l has a brake controller on his 2001 1500. We both get the same symptoms when we hook this trailer up to our trucks. The brakes lock up sometimes but it's hit or miss. The manual lever on the box won't even lock them up with any consistency. Everyone that I've talked to so far has said that it sounds like a ground issue. I'm not sharp when it comes to electrical circuits. I've just never learned that much about it. I've grounded the controller box. After that, I grounded the plug box to the chassy. This still didn't work and made wonder if there was to many points grounded. Last night, I went to pull the trailer back to town and decided to check the ground on the trailer. I removed the bolt that was holding it to the trailer frame. I cleaned the metal under the washer and connection. After I hooked everything back up, I drove about 2 miles and the symptoms were the same. I pulled off at a country store and decided to unattach the trailer ground that I had just worked on. After that, the brakes on the trailer locked beautifully when I hit the manual brake lever. The light on the control box came on strong and the brakes locked harder and harder as I increased the pull on the lever. When I hit the brake pedal I don't have a light coming on and the box doesn't seem to be enguaging the trailer brakes. Any ideas on what I've got going on here or if I need to change the ground connections? lc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donmarkey Posted August 16, 2008 Report Share Posted August 16, 2008 Does the breakaway lock the brakes up consistately when you pull the pin without pugging the trailer in to the truck? There could also be a ground problem at the brake itself. Are both sides acting the same or is only one side causing the problem? The first thing I'd do is pull the wheels and check everything on that end. As for the inside controller, with most of them you will alway get a light whenever you hit the brake reguardless if you have a trailer connected or not, if you don't you're probably missing something. As for auto grounding it's not like a house or building where your ground is just there for safety, in autos the ground is the negative (most times) return path to the battery without it you have an open circuit. Anything on the trailer and vehicle that doesn't have a physical wire going back to the ground terminal on the battery relies on the metal frame to complete it's connection. Speaking of grounds, are you having any problems with the trailer lights? -Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted August 16, 2008 Report Share Posted August 16, 2008 I think there is a fuse for the controller when operated from the brake pedal,but the manuel lever operates on another circuit.On GM a towing package comes with a harness that you just plug in,but older trucks without towing package,the fuses had to be installed.Seems to me,there's one inside the cab with the regular fuses,and one outside on the LH fender well.There should be a big fuse for power to the controller,but it's got to be good,or it wouldn't work with the lever.We called that the ''OH SHITE LEVER".With a test light,go to the first plug from the controller,and test each wire until you find the one that goes off and on with the brake pedal.If it's good,keep following that wire,testing it.If it's good as far as you can follow,it's probably a fuse.The pendulem type controllers are lots better than the old splice into the brake line type,but are finickier.Wish I was there to help you.Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montea6b Posted August 16, 2008 Report Share Posted August 16, 2008 LC, Geez man your situation sounds a lot like mine! I installed a controller in my truck for a horse trailer and have had nothing but problems. It's frustrating because I don't know where to trouble shoot - is it the truck, controller, or trailer?! Truck and trailer are both used so they are definitely suspect. The truck had a controller before so I suspected that the wiring may have been goofy when I installed it. And it was, brakes came on full when I went to reverse. Sometimes... I had the wiring harness all checked out and redone so I'm pretty sure it is good now, but I was still having problems with overly sensitive brakes. I finally did something I don't do often enough and actually re-read the instructions. I had done this initially, and thought everything was set up, but caught something the second time that helped. The controller is a Tekonsha Voyager. There is a leveling adjustment knob on the left side that I kind of forgotten about. This needs to ba adjusted first per the setup instructions. Then, apparently, one should be able to make finer adjustments for trailer weight etc. with only the gain knob on the right side. I had gone through this at first, but never rechecked the leveling knob again. I found that it was set at a very aggressive level which was causing the brakes to lock at the slightest pressure. (P.S., when I mentioned this to a friend with the same controller who had been helping be troubleshoot he said incredulously "there's a knob on the left side?" Good to know I'm not the only one...) So I backed down the leveling knob, and by playing around with it and the gain knob I thought I had things working. One wheel on the dual axle trailer still seemed sensitive, but I attributed it to a sticky or out of adjustment brake. After several trips around the neighborhood fiddling with things and horking on the brakes I got to to where it was good enough. My F-250 has great brakes and I'm only ever hauling one or two horses locally on relatively level ground so I'm not overly concerned about the braking power. I just need to know they will help in a panic stop and that I can plug them in so the lights will work. They were intermittent before and so I had actually unhooked the plug on a short trip while loaded just to keep if from jerking around. So, I thought everything was good to go, but then after sitting for several weeks I hooked up to go again and the brakes completely locked up. Completely, as in I'm pulling the trailer forward from the grass on the side of the house to the driveway and all 4 tires are sliding on the dewy grass! I unplug the wire again to get in on pavement then start working it. It seemed that it would roll a little more each time, so by "rocking" it, they gradually worked themselves free. I'm thinking sticky brakes, but the mechanical answer doesn't explain why they would roll fine when I unplug the wiring... I took it around the block again and got my level of confidence to the point that I was willing to take in on the road loaded. I could always stop and unplug again if I needed to. The worst that happens is that it jerks a bit and makes a bunch of blue smoke at the back. It seemed to work just fine all the way there, but on arrival the brake drums were very warm as if they had been dragging the whole way. (a tribute to the pulling power of the mighty F250 Powerstroke diesel that I could tow a loaded trailer with dragging brakes and not even notice it!) So, enough about my woes. I guess the small kernel of advice I might offer is just to double check the set up instructions and re-adjust any and all knobs before you go much further. And thanks for the reminder to have this looked at again. The Evergreen State Fair starts in a couple weeks and the kids are showing the neighbor's horse. It would be nice to take him down worry-free... Good luck, and keep us posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlecanoe Posted August 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2008 Forgot to add that the lights all work normally. I'm still reading all the posts.......................LOL Edited to add: The wiring all checks out. As you guessed Jerry, it's an older one and didn't come with the plug and go set-up. I've run the wiring a few times. I test out getting 11ish volts on the appropriate tab on the female connector on the bumper. 2nd edit: Monte, I had the weird reverse trailer brake lock up going on too! This controller is a Hayes Lemmerz. It's basic with just the power reostat to set brake power and the "Oh NO!" lever. Should all grounds be hooked up? The box, the female bumper connector and the brake lines to the trailer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Hess Posted August 17, 2008 Report Share Posted August 17, 2008 It sounds like a bad wiring connection, which could be the ground or the brake line. Everything should be grounded. Your connection at the trailer on the truck side should have one wire that goes directly to a ground. Make sure that it goes to a ground, and it is clean. On the trailer side, the same line on the other side of the plug needs to go to the trailer chassis (ground) directly, and usually at the tounge. Make sure that is clean. Inspect all the wires on the trailer and the truck. There should be absolutely no "trailer splice connectors" or whatever they call them. Those are those little plastic things with a blade that pinches two wires, then the plastic cover snaps on. Those things are absolute no-no's and should be outlawed. If you have any of those anywhere in your system, remove them and do a proper job of splicing the wires with rosin core electrical solder and either a good amount of black tape or heat shrink tubeing or both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlecanoe Posted August 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 Thanks for the added advice. I'm going to try to test the trailer next week some time and I'll give an update. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlecanoe Posted August 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 Well, Somebody hand me my sign!!!! DUH!! After I thought about things a bit, I remembered that I have a wire that is adapted to plug into the fuse box underneath the dash. "Did somebody accidentally pull that out?" I thought. Yep! After I plugged it back up my little brake light on the controller comes on every time that I hit the brakes. I tested it today and I have trailer brakes! I didn't hook the ground on the trailer back up. I decided to leave it off since everything is working so well. I am grounded at the Female plug by the hitch and the controller box is grounded. Does this part make any sense?? that the trailer then doesn't need a ground also? I'm assuming that it is grounded through the rest of the system. Thanks for all the help and suggestions. It's really nice to have you guys to come to when something like this comes up.....a lot of experience out there. lc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted August 24, 2008 Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 That's good news LC.If your brakes and tailights work without the extra ground,your ok.Sometimes after a trailer hasn't been used for a while,the coupler and hitchball will rust just enough to not ground,but only takes a minute or two for them to wear in to each other to get a good ground.A seperate ground from trailer to truck takes care of this,but I don't bother with it.Glad you gotter figured out. Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donmarkey Posted August 24, 2008 Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 Great, just make sure the you not getting your ground through the hitch, because if you are you will have problems later. Unhook the trailer except for the wiring and if you still work you re good to go. -Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlecanoe Posted August 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2008 Don, That makes good sense. I'll check it to make sure. I'm happy that I can now haul my tractor and logs and lumber and know that I can stop under good control. lc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Hess Posted August 25, 2008 Report Share Posted August 25, 2008 Yeah, I'd make sure you have a good ground. Remember that the ground is 1/2 the electrical circuit, and if you blow that part off, it is just as bad as blowing off the other half. I've pulled a 3K lb car on a car hauler with my 86 RN Toyota Truck from the Left Coast to Arkansas. I'd be dead without trailer brakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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