Guest MorgansBoss Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 My brother's father in-law died yesterday. He had lived a very long and rewarding life and had enjoyed it tremendously. We'll all miss him. This man's parents came to this country from Italy in the 1920's. Penniless, they jumped ship in New York harbor and entered The States as illegals. Things were incredibly tough for them. They had to take the worst jobs there were and even then worked for less than anyone else. His father became so discouraged he abandoned his wife and son and stowed away on another ship back to Italy. Mother and child eventually made their way to another city (I'm being obscure on purpose) where the woman had a sister and her family - also illegals. The single mother eventually ran a tiny restaurant in the parlor of her home and raised her son by feeding others for pennies and whatever other work she could manage. Her son learned to be quite a vintner by making wine to be served in his mother's parlor - they couldn't afford to buy it. His wine eventually brought more customers and they "got by." This man served the U.S. with many distinguished honors in WW-II even under threat of being subject to execution if captured due to his ethnicity - the Nazis and fascists considered such people traitors. After the war he went on to be a very successful man and lived a very comfortable life. He died, not "wealthy" but he didn't have anything to worry about either! He made his own way in this world and he made his life the success it was. Nobody gave him anything he didn't earn. Now this is more or less a eulogy about somebody you couldn't possibly know, but I hope it gets some of you thinking about how many of today's illegal aliens - Mexicans, Chinese, Dominicans, Indians, etc. - might be remembered with a similar story 85 years from now. Dagos, Waps, etc. were to the 20's what wetbacks, "mexy-cans", etc. are today... think about it fellas - please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailormilan2 Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 In my readings, I have read that there used to be signs proclaiming, "If you are Irish do not come in." "Irish need not apply here". No self respecting man would let his daughter go out with an Irishman. It was said of the Irish, that they kept the Sabbath.................................................and everything else they could get their hands on. Having said that, my Great Grandfather was born in the house of Mary, County Armaugh, North Irelend. He worked his proverbial hind end off twice to get here. Twice, as his mother found his first boat ticket and tore it up. Quite frankly, I care not where one comes from. I have worked with many Mexican or Hispanic Deputies, and went to school with many. I worked with both of the Mexican/Hispanic judges here. One was great, the other I would cheerfully vote against, as he wore his race on his sleeve. What I care about is how I am treated and how they behave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 Well, two things come to mind here. First, this ain't 1920 anymore. My people came here in the late 1800's (legally). They weren't rich either, and they suffered discrimination due to their German ancestry. They had to change the name of a town from Germantown to the name of the first German/American son to die in France. Second, I doubt seriously if those of you who seem to lump the illegal immigration problem today with what the European immigrants went through, have ever had illegals (hispanics, Mexicans, whatever) come through your property and trash it like it didn't mean schitt to them (cause it don't). I bet those Irish and Italians never trashed private property like the Mexicans do today. And when these illegals (hispanics, Mexicans, whatever) do volunteer for the armed service (as many of my people did), then and only then may I change my mind. A Mexican friend of mine told me a story of an illegal Mexican boy coming here (illegally) and living until the army starting drafting boys during 'nam. He split back to Mexico in order to avoid the draft. When 'nam was over, he returned. But the local Mexican community sent him packing back to Mexico. Think about that, fellas! fritz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MorgansBoss Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 "...But the local Mexican community sent him packing back to Mexico." Fritz Without saying so - maybe without realizing it - you just gave the answer to your own dilema on this issue and made exactly the point I'm trying to make with this little story. That being, it's not a race of people, its the irresponsible few among the larger group. I'm certian that given your location you see (or at least feel the effect of) a whole lot more - good, bad and indifferent - than anyone else here. Given that, you will naturally see a lot more of the bad and it is usually the bad of any group who end up setting the perceived attitude toward the whole. This is an unfortunate flaw in human nature. Yup, there's a lot of differences between 1920 and 2005, but I'd bet that in 1920 New York's waterfront business owners would have sounded awefully familiar to your own complaints. Desperate people do desperate things - always have, always will - but time has a way of making us forget the bad and focusing on the good. Case in point - my own dad's "depression stories." To hear him tell them now you'd think it was a fun time even with the problems, but we all of course know better. I know your problems are real and I sympathize with you. I do not condem the whole on the basis of the few though - and neither I believe do you my friend! Tu Amigo MorgansBoss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz Posted October 3, 2005 Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 Well, we'll have to wait and see how many of these illegal immigrants will "do the right thing", won't we. And if anyone thinks I condemn the whole because of a few rotters, why do you suppose I have so many Mexican friends? But I'm glad you don't think that I do. My Mexican friends came here legally, and many served in the armed forces of this country. It was THEIR country also, and they are completely unlike these illegal Mexicans coming in now. This is not THEIR country (just ask one of them). The majority of them will split back to Mexico if the going gets too rough here. How many will apply for citizenship? Most will always claim Mexico as their country, and will not learn the English language (even when the legislature requires the schools to teach them). One of the reasons they won't learn the English language is because that same legislature now requires our teachers to teach to them in Spanish. So where is the incentive to learn the English language? Think about it. fritz I guess we just have to wait and see, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted October 3, 2005 Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 Where I work,a lot of folks come from our Seattle plant to here in Texas,and they think they know about our wetback problem from what they read in the papers,but are actually shocked when they see and experience the mess we have in our border states.The ILLEGAL immigrants are comeing over our borders like the flood waters went over the levies in New Orleans.Everyone is just setting back and watching it happen,and after the economies are ruined by so many not paying school taxes and drawing welfare,they'll start fighting for jobs that will pay less and less,until it's better for them to stay home in Mexico.Just like the flood waters,they'll go back into they're main channel,leaving behind everything ruined.Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimro Posted October 4, 2005 Report Share Posted October 4, 2005 America is the promised land for many who want to earn a living. America is also the promised land for those who want to live off of another mans living. I have high hopes for the legal immigrants coming from the former communist countries, they cherish freedom in a way that I seldom see from natural born citizens. Nor do I have a problem with legal immigrants from hispanic countries. The ones who work hard and know that learning english is the key to success, become succesful. They live the American dream. I met a lot of these guys in the Army, from Mexico, El Salvador, Venezuala. But I am all for closing the border with Mexico. There is no place in our society for illegal immigrants. Jimro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FC Posted October 4, 2005 Report Share Posted October 4, 2005 Question- do the illegals want to become Americans and adopt the language, culture, and way of life, or do they intend to stay Mexican, make money, and use a system that invites them to come on over? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MorgansBoss Posted October 4, 2005 Report Share Posted October 4, 2005 Something that is rarely discussed in this country, but seems to be somewhere just under the surface in these discussions, is the subject of temporary aliean workers. Maybe the reason is because we are so guarded about "giving away" things like jobs and social programs. However there are jobs you simply can't get an "American" to do - low paying, manual labor positions - and these folks egerly accept. They are necessary jobs and the immigrants typically do a good job even in these posts. Natives on the other hand, when they do accept the job have such a low view of it they perform poorly and blow it off first chance they get, usually with little consideration given "the boss." I was in London earlier this year and since I had a long lay-over at Heathrow couldn't help noticing the large number of (obviously) non-British people working the shops. I assume its the same situation only they had (again assuming) eastern Europeans instead of our Mexicans... just something to ponder as you search for a personal philophy on this ever increasingly important issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted October 4, 2005 Report Share Posted October 4, 2005 If it takes $15.00 an hour for a young man starting out to support a wife,baby,make payments on a second hand car,groceries and clothes,with a little taken out for insurance,that's living tight and the wife will eventually have to work to make ends meet.A small business man such as a concrete contractor or lawn service can hire 3 wetbacks for the same money.That's why there's so much talk of the wets doing jobs Americans won't do.Americans can't live on the 5.50 the Mexicans are making and sending home.It's not that we won't do the jobs,it's we can't live on the money the business owners is paying,at the same time their getting rich off illegal alien labor.I'm surrounded by illegals everyday working for the cleaning company that does or factory,and they don't work any harder the the Americans I work with.If the contractor hires one that turns out slothful,he can fire him right then and there,and the wets know it.Try that with a legal citizen.They'd end up owning your business if you fired them because they didn't work hard enough.It takes lawyers to fire an American.People sure need to live with the illegal immigrant problem before they buy into" they do jobs Americans won't do". Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MorgansBoss Posted October 4, 2005 Report Share Posted October 4, 2005 Listen to what you're saying Jerry. "...A small business man such as a concrete contractor or lawn service can hire 3 wetbacks for the same money..." :...Americans can't live on the 5.50 the Mexicans are making and sending home..." You're right! However, how many AMERICANS could run one of these bussinesses if all their employees made $20/hr. + bennys? Could you afford to hire the lawn company to mow your grass at $75/hr.? (yeah I realize probably all of us mow our own grass) What I'm saying is maybe there is something here that deserves a second look. Maybe if we legitimized tempory aliens and REGULATED it a bit tighter it would improve things all the way around - provide them the oportunities they're looking for while answering a real need here in The States... just maybe. Of course the flip side is that we'd have to be tough on the illegals - deport every one without exceptions for this or that excuse. You know, the way its SUPPOSED to be now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz Posted October 4, 2005 Report Share Posted October 4, 2005 The way it's SUPPOSED to be now is to crack down on the greedy employers that hire illegal labor (knowing full well that it is illegal). But I don't buy into the arguement that these wetbacks would respect private property even if the government cracked down on the employers giving them jobs. If you have ever seen the slums they created in Mexico, you might realize that they don't know any better. And like Jery said, only a wetback can live on these wages they are paid. Why don't the greedy employers pay them better, so that they won't end up making slums in this country? It costs less to live in a slum I guess, but I don't want to. Do you? And if the greedy employers cannot make it in their business by paying a fair wage, maybe it's time for them to modify their operations (like the farmers did when the Bracero program ended). When we couldn't get the legal Braceros, and we knew we could get into trouble hiring illegals, we became more mechanized and cut out a lot of manual labor. There will always be some jobs that have to be done by hard sweating hand labor. But if you lived around here (where the illegals pass through every day) and offered one a job on a farm, they would ignore you and continue on their way to the greedy employers in the big cities. They won't take farm jobs anymore, not when they know they can get higher paying jobs in Houston and other large cities. They also know that they will be harder to detect in a big city. They know they are ilegal, and they don't give a damned what they do to get through our ranches, on their way to the jobs awaiting them in the big cities. Maybe the ranchers here can send the bill for damages to the greedy employers in the big cities. After all, it was them who invited these wetbacks to come through here, now wasn't it. fritz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MorgansBoss Posted October 4, 2005 Report Share Posted October 4, 2005 Seems the only answer is a BIG fence and TOUGH enforcement of our borders. Of course the liberals call such things racist. Wish we could solve this problem here fellas but I fear it's lost forever. Unfortunately if there is ever to be any movement towards enforcement of our borders it will take another 9-1-1 coming from the south - and of course a couple years later even that will be relaxed again. I feel for you guys on the front line because I'm afraid we're stuck with this until living in Mexico is more attractive than living (or at least working) here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted October 4, 2005 Report Share Posted October 4, 2005 MB,The 2 small businessmen I know with the concrete and lawn service are living a lot larger life style than you or me will ever live and they're using illegale labor doing it.You just wait until you have kids in college that can't get 10.00 hr. jobs with construction jobs because they're American citizens and have to work in chicken joints for 5.50 an hr. because they're in the public eye and the owners are afraid of working illegals.Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz Posted October 5, 2005 Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 Jerry, You beat me to it--the greedy employers are not passing on their lower cost labor (by using illegals), but instead are using the money to live better themselves. I think it is obvious by now who is causing the majority of this illegal immigration to occur. And I wish to hell they would stop this illegal practice. Why must the government have to force (by law and strict enforcement) something on an employer that they should have been doing on their own? In this regard, the greedy employers are no better than the poor people who create the slums where they have to live. They are worse! Now we know that there are those greedy employers out there who would like to "keep these people in their place". If they got "out of place", heaven forbid, they might just demand a fair wage! Think about it. fritz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted October 5, 2005 Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 fritz,it's already happening.The Mexicans are making 10.00 an hr. or more on constuction jobs but the newly arrived unskilled lawnmowers are still starting around 5.00.I'm surrounded by wets every day,and see their pay increasing all the time.The man that owns the lawn service lives in a giant house in Denton,owns a home in Colorado,and a nice ranch in Montaque co.10 years ago,he lived in a home in town on about the same poverty level as me.He's come a long way working lawbreakers.What gets me,is our company,Paccar International hires his company and no questions ask.Our factory is full of illegal immigrants every day working for these outside contractors.I've know these 2 business men 22 years and don't feel sorry for them because they have to work wetbacks.They were making a good,honest living 10 years ago working American citizens and college kids.Now they're filthy rich off illegal labor's sweat.Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzRednek Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 Dagos, Waps, etc. were to the 20's what wetbacks, "mexy-cans", etc. are today... think about it fellas - please. 4549[/snapback] Not exactly!! How many Italians immigrated for welfare benefits in the 20's?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MorgansBoss Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 "...How many Italians immigrated for welfare benefits in the 20's??" None, there were no welfare benefits in the 20's! AZ - I don't have any idea why anyone - then or now - immigrates, or emigrates, aside from what they say themselves and pretty much universally the answer given is "to better their lives." Who knows the true answer, many are certainly lying. The point of the referenced statement though is how they were (are) viewed by current residents regardless of what or who they were or why they came. It's undeniable that the Irish and Italian immigrants swarming into the country nearly a century ago were held in virtually the same esteem as our Hispanic immigrants today - regardless of their legal status. Least anyone get the wrong idea, I am NOT an advocate of immigration - quite the contrary! I'm just trying to make some sense out of this whole mess and maybe put (at least some of it) in perspective. Maybe that's just not possible. Every human experience is as unique as the individual involved. When we try to make generalizations some will always fall through the cracks for better or worse. I think this horse is throughly dead, I'm done beating it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzRednek Posted October 7, 2005 Report Share Posted October 7, 2005 I have no problem with those that come seeking a better life via hard work. My problem is with those that come in search of a handout or a larger more profitable arena for a criminal enterprise. Unfortunately the numbers continue to grow of those that demand government bennys, refuse to learn english and cry racist. Worse, those that adopt multiple names and draw bennys, bleed the workers comp system 2-3 times over while working under another name and sub lease their free or subsided housing while sleeping in another paid for by the government. It is not that unusual when a non-english speaking Mexican buys a $50-60,000 Explorer, Suburban or new pick-up truck with cash. A far cry from the Mexican immigrant either legal or illegal that united under Caesar Chavez to improve wages and working conditions. Members of the United Farm Workers came here to work, earn an honest living, lived the horrors and suffered the same discrimination as the Italian, Irish or Oriental immigrants did 50-100 years prior. Could possibly be an urban legend but Chavez and his followers, the majority being Mexican but also included Central and South Americans, earned my respect and I had a total paradigm shift when I heard Chavez snubbed Jesse Jackson on national tv. Chavez when asked off camera why he gave Jackson the cold shoulder when the two were interviewed together on a network broadcast at a Democratic presidential convention. Chavez supposedly said something to the effect, no city welfare my people work in the fields. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted October 7, 2005 Report Share Posted October 7, 2005 Like Morgan said,I'm not whooping on this dead horse anymore either.AZ,you dang sure summed it all up with your last post.The illegals are using our system against us.The part about buying the $45,000.00 Suburban,Excursions,and 4WD 4 door,diesel pick-ups with cash is the part that hare-lips me too! Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emul8 Posted October 7, 2005 Report Share Posted October 7, 2005 My issue with illegals is when they drop their "anchor babies" here thus giving the child citizenship and allowing the parents to stay and benefit similarly. Then the parents remain undocumented, work jobs that don't require it and send all their money back to Mexico anyway. I have no problems with legal immigrants, but when people come to this nation with the intention of using their children to allow them to stay here, by virtue of the child's birth here, something just ain't right. I know that anyone born here in the U. S. is a citizen, but there needs to be some addendum/provision that accomodates this loophole through which some folks wriggle and thus worm their way into our country. Maybe that's the wrong view to have, but still.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz Posted October 8, 2005 Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 I am NOT an advocate of immigration - Hell, why not? As long as it's LEGAL. The problem stems from ILLEGAL immigration. If it were not for LEGAL immigration, my people would not have been able to establish themselves here in South Texas (I still think they should have continued on to Frederichsberg). BTW, we were welcomed here by the government, and we filled a job market and profession that was needed. I guess we really need all these ILLEGAL hispanics (and notice I said "hispanic" instead of Mexican) because just the other day Victoria county deputies picked up a van load of Guatamalean women, illegals (goes without saying, but I mention it anyway) on their way through here. They must have had a job awaiting them in Houston, because sure as hell that is where they were heading. Too bad they didn't make it. But there will be others tommorow, I'm sure. Sure as the sun will rise tommorow! fritz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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