8uck5nort Posted January 14, 2010 Report Share Posted January 14, 2010 Ordered one for future "what if" project. I was going to mate this one to a Carcano action for a .357 mag bolt action, but it looks too small at .795 inch OD. I did not spend a great deal on it, but kinda scrathing my head here. Looking for ideas. Thread and sleeve, then thread the sleeve for chosen action? Weld on a ring too barrel and then thread? Find a small caliber bolt action rifle to cusomize? .22 bolt??? I guess I could order a .38 special barrel blank, and I guess this could be reamed for .357 mag. Gun Part Corp. sells one for 77 bucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinkerfive Posted January 14, 2010 Report Share Posted January 14, 2010 Is this a 35cal barrel? that you are talking about? If so would you mind telling how much and where, if there are more to get. I got a 357 with a 2" snub nose that is crying for a re-barrel to something significantly longer. So there is one suggestion. Hang it on a six shooter 357 hand cannon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8uck5nort Posted January 14, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2010 Tinker, This is the exact barrel: http://www.e-gunparts.com/DisplayAd.asp?chrProductSKU=957250&chrSuperSKU=&MC=&CatID=6886&mySort=1 Being still, very much a newbie, I kinda bought it on impulse with a specific goal in mind, but upon recieving it then occured to me, "wow that looks smaller than the picture". I know, I know, shoulda pulled the barrel on a carcano beforehand, got my dimensions of the action/barrel and then bought a blank that would work, but another lessoned learned. What I really had in mind was a true scout, LER scoped, light weight, brush gun, but with a twist... whaaaa... In any casee it needs to be run through a lathe one way or the other to get rid of the collar. It is still an interesting barrel and for price it is in excellent condition and is begging to be used to create another unique, one of a kind gun. I am just going about bassackwards, again. I am just not versed enough in all the rifles out there to know if there may be a commercial bolt action that I can rebarrel using this blank. (Sounds like a good idea, but may not be????) Or like you suggested, use on a pistol or maybe even take a pistol and turn in a rifle? Hey laugh if you like, just tossing out ideas here. If such a thing be possible which I am sure it is. Legal, however, maybe a different matter. Which by the way is a stupid concept. Whole other matter. A government trying to control the flow of technologies and ideas/creativity is like them hearding cats. Just ask the music industry trying to control Information Technology and telling the IT communtiy and the consumer public to not develope new and different way to using the technology to share/copy information, including music and movies...but, I digress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
724wd Posted January 14, 2010 Report Share Posted January 14, 2010 Rifle action dimensions (some duplicate info here, but it's a good list) Action threads length Reciver OD? other BBK-02 1.1x12 Browning A-bolt 1x32 CZ 550 1.1x12.7 CZ 527 mini-mauser Enfield M-17 x10 square Enfield SMLE Marlin 336 .775x12 square .65” & .84” hood Marlin 1895 45-70 same as 336, 450 may have been changed to a v thread. Mauser lrg. Ring 1.1x12 1.41” Mauser sm. Ring .98x12 Mosin Nagant .97”x16 or 1x16” MRC 1999 1x16 UNF 2B .75 Rem 700 1 1/16”x16 .885 1.0625x16 Rem Rolling block No. 1 smokeless 1.055x12 square 1.43” Ruger 77 1x16 1.41” Ruger no. 1 1x16” Sako 1x16 ? Savage 110 < 2001 1.05x20 Short magnum>2001 1.125x20 G series, noticeable step after threads CRF 1 1/16x20 1.0625x20 210 Bolt Shotgun 1.1x20? Savage 99 Steyr M-95 1.020x14 tpi V .693” shank Weatherby mk V 1.06x16 .7 1 1/16x16 Win 70 1x16 Win 94 .809x20 Win 94 BB .875x28? .635” shank Win 92 Win 1873 Win 1885 High wall Norinco Win 1887 lever shotgun 12 ga. 1.1x26 proofed to 43ksi! Norinco Win 1897 pump shotgun 12 ga. Proofed to 43ksi Sharps 1874 Pedersoli or AIB import Sharps reproduction? Rossi 92 Smith & Wesson Revolvers: Acording to Brownells catalog, J frame is .500x36 K frame is.540x36 L frame is .562x36 N frame is.670.36 K frame tap part number is 080-598-540 retail price $34.97 which isn't too bad for an odd thread US made tap. most of it is unverified, Barrel threads per inch Browning 0.937 20 The A-bolt uses a threaded barrel (15/16" x 20 tpi). Ultra-Light Arms (1988) 1.0 X 16tpi Small ring mauser 0.98 12 Large ring mauser 1.10 12 FN-FAL 1.00 16 The Howa 1500 is the same gun as the Weatherby Vanguard, the Smith & Wesson 1500, and the Mossberg 1500. The actions are all identical and are all made by Howa in Japan. Everything on 'em is metric including the barrel thread. It's supposed to be 26x1.5mm. Remington 1.062 16 1/8 turn = 7.8 thou Ruger M-77 MK II 1.00 - 16 tpi Ruger #1 1.0 16 According to "The Bolt Action Rifle" by Stuart Otteson (Vol 1, Winchester Press) Rem 700 Thread 1 1/16" X 16 Engament .69 (11 threads) Rem 788 Thread 1" X 20 Engament 1.1" (22 threads) You COULD at least rethread the 700 barrel to fit the 788... Sako 1.030 16 Savage 1.055 20 Note: 1.120 20 (new) WSM, RUM, and SAUM calibers The larger barrel shank will have a step down approximately 1/8" ahead of the barrel nut. If your rifle has a serial number with a "G" prefix, it is most probable it will have the larger shank. Winchester 1.0 16 Mauser standard Shank O mean Diameter same as before 1.100" receiver O 1.42", Mauser Small ring Shank o .980" receiver o 1.35", 1917 or 1914 Enfields, Shank o 1.125" receiver 1.1375", 1903 Springfield Shank 1.040" receiver 1.35", Win models 54 and 70 shank o 1.00",receiver 1.35", Remington 721 and 722 shank 1.05" and receiver 1.35". Marlin 95 bbl wideth .955,shank .986 12 sg. cut tpi. Mossberg 04M bbl width .750 with a shank of .637 extending 1.60 long. Page-lewis bbl width .690 shank .505 wide 1.00 long. Peabody single shot shank .965 and 10 sg. cut, t.p.i. Premier slide action bbl width .750 wide shank .597 with 24 tpi v cut. Remington model 31 bbl width 12 ga 1.204,16 ga 1.167,20 ga 1.180,shank width 12 ga 1.10,16 ga 1.028 20 ga 1.025 length of shank 12 ga .7018 16 ga .704 20ga .707the 12 and 16 ga have 14tpi sg treads and the 20 ga has 14 tpi v cut threads. Remington 514 bbl width .755,shank wideth .590 shank lenth .755. Remington rolling block cadet ,shank width .836 shank lenght 1.250 with 12 sq threads per inch. Remington 11-48 12 ga bbl width 1.160,shank width 1.055,shank lenght .890 includes section with out threads. Remington 33 bbl width .766,26 tpi v cut, shank length 1.00 overall with .300 treaded and .700 bare which measurers .606,thraded section od is .675 and bare sections od is .606. Barrel thread sizes of some common Rifle actions, the first # is the Barrel Extension Diameter, The second # is the Threads per inch and the third is the type of thread. see more Barrel treads and shank sizes on about page 22. Win, #1 and #2 single shot actions .821" ,16 tpi,Vee type. Win, #3 Heavy single shot action .930"16 tpi,Vee type. Win, Models 54 and 70, 1.00",16 tpi,Vee type. Win, 07 model .746" ,20 tpi,vee type threads. Win, 86 and 71 models .875" ,20 tpi ,vee type. Win, models 92 and 53 models .805 20 tpi ,vee type. Win, 94, 55, and 64 ,.805", 20 tpi and vee type threads. Win, 95, .930" and 16 tpi,vee type threads. Savage, 99...900" 12 tpi and square type threads. Marlin, 93 and 36 models .778", 12 tpi and square type threads. Standard Automatic,.996" and 10 tpi,square type threads. Ballard, Single Shot,.950" ,18 tpi and vee type threads. Sharps, Borchardt,.945" 16 tpi and vee type threads. Stevens, ideal #44 single shot,.8125" , 20 tpi and vee type threads. Stevens ,44 1/2 sible shot .875" and 16 tpi, vee type threads. Springfield ,1.040" and 10 tpi and squared type threads. Enfield,1.118", 10 tpi and squared type threads. Rem,models, 30 and 720 1.118" and 10 tpi squared type threads. Norwegian, krag 1.056", 12 tpi L.H,sqaured type threads. Danish, Krag ,1.060", 12 tpi and vee type threads. Mauser, model, 98 1.100", 12 tpi vee type threads. Small ring sporting, Mausers, cz 33/40 .981", 12 tpi and vee type threads. Mauser, 88 and 93 models .985" and 12 tpi and vee type threads. Belgian, Mauser .995" and 12 tpi,vee type threads. Austrian Steyr, 95, 1.060", 12 tpi and vee type threads. Jap Ariskaka, 6.5 mm 1.026", 14 tpi and vee type threads . Jap Ariskaka, 7.7mm,1.025", 17 tpi vee type threads. Colt Woodman pistol Shank 1.525 with .800 non treaded,32 t.p.i on .555 and untreaded section is .455. Colt police Positive, threaded section o.d is .455 and a lenght of .725 with a section 7/64 not threaded with a o.d of .338.32 tp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladymere Posted January 14, 2010 Report Share Posted January 14, 2010 724wd, That's some good info. I just copied it ande archived it on my hard drive. Thank you. Vlad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8uck5nort Posted January 14, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2010 724wd, That's some good info. I just copied it ande archived it on my hard drive. Thank you. Vlad Agreed, great info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken98k Posted January 15, 2010 Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 Agreed, great info. So what exactly is this mystery barrel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gun nutty Posted January 15, 2010 Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 There was a pump .357 Mag, the Timberwolf, by IMI (Isreali Military Industries, I think). I wonder if it came from that? You could machine a bushing and either pin or fine-thread the bushing to the barrel. The .357 is just about perfect for the Carcano. A Desert Eagle .357 magazine adapted to the action would make for a fun plinker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8uck5nort Posted January 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 So what exactly is this mystery barrel? Ken98k, This is the exact barrel I have. http://www.e-gunparts.com/DisplayAd.asp?chrProductSKU=957250&chrSuperSKU=&MC=&CatID=6886&mySort=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8uck5nort Posted January 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 There was a pump .357 Mag, the Timberwolf, by IMI (Isreali Military Industries, I think). I wonder if it came from that? You could machine a bushing and either pin or fine-thread the bushing to the barrel. The .357 is just about perfect for the Carcano. A Desert Eagle .357 magazine adapted to the action would make for a fun plinker. It is not the one from the Timberwolf. I saw that one, but it has dove tail cuts at both end of barrel. What kind of issues would I expect to see with the bushing approach? Setting headspace? Is this something any fairly competent machinest could do? I have the carcano action already and will have a barrel to copy or heck even use it as a donor for the bushing, it would already be threaded!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiley Posted January 15, 2010 Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 It reminds me of the inserts that Savage made for shotguns: cut a flange and some Oring grooves and you could run 357 out of the 12 gage! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic1 Posted January 15, 2010 Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 .357 mag http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=154022492 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gun nutty Posted January 15, 2010 Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 What kind of issues would I expect to see with the bushing approach? Setting headspace? Is this something any fairly competent machinest could do? I have the carcano action already and will have a barrel to copy or heck even use it as a donor for the bushing, it would already be threaded!!! No issues, especially with the .357. Anyone who can operate a lathe can make it. You'll just need some accurate measuring tools. Using the Carcano barrel as a sleeve would be interesting. I'm not sure how to grab it in a lathe, as there wouldn't be much to grab onto. All you're doing is creating a stepped-sleeve that, when placed over the chambered end of the barrel, will allow you to cut the combined pair as though it were a Carcano barrel. The barrel will need to be cleaned up at the chamber end to eliminate the taper; I'd want a uniform diameter surface for the length of the inside of the sleeve. The sleeve will be 1.25" steel (I'd just grab some scrap low carbon), about 4" long. You may want it shorter; I'd want a graceful transition rather than an abrupt one. Maybe 3 - 3.5 inches will look better on the thinner barrel. Dunno. Your call, not mine. Prior to cutting the shank threads, it will be uniform diameter from the rear to a step at 2.25". At that step, it will taper to a diameter of APPROXIMATELY 0.795" at the 4" end (it will be a smaller diameter than that - I'll follow up). That taper may need to be cut last; you'll need a shoulder to press the sleeve onto the barrel with an arbor press. What inside sleeve diameter are we looking at? Whatever the diameter is at 4" from the rear end of your barrel; you'll have to machine the barrel back to the breech end that same diameter so it's uniform. It might be 0.770". It will be less than 0.795". I'd want both diameters to be equal for a press fit. I'm thinking in terms of shaft bearings... 4" is a long length to press though. I would NOT want a "running" fit. I'd use two small diameter pins set-in like sights are set on military barrels. You can machine the barrel with the sleeve on it as though it were on piece after that. I've done this with sleeves on shafts and bearing on shafts. It should work on a barrel too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8uck5nort Posted January 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 .357 mag http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=154022492 Thanks Sonic. I'll see if I can snag one. That would be really cool to have a Hig cap .357 mag bolt action. If it will cycle all of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8uck5nort Posted January 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 What kind of issues would I expect to see with the bushing approach? Setting headspace? Is this something any fairly competent machinest could do? I have the carcano action already and will have a barrel to copy or heck even use it as a donor for the bushing, it would already be threaded!!! No issues, especially with the .357. Anyone who can operate a lathe can make it. You'll just need some accurate measuring tools. Using the Carcano barrel as a sleeve would be interesting. I'm not sure how to grab it in a lathe, as there wouldn't be much to grab onto. All you're doing is creating a stepped-sleeve that, when placed over the chambered end of the barrel, will allow you to cut the combined pair as though it were a Carcano barrel. The barrel will need to be cleaned up at the chamber end to eliminate the taper; I'd want a uniform diameter surface for the length of the inside of the sleeve. The sleeve will be 1.25" steel (I'd just grab some scrap low carbon), about 4" long. You may want it shorter; I'd want a graceful transition rather than an abrupt one. Maybe 3 - 3.5 inches will look better on the thinner barrel. Dunno. Your call, not mine. Prior to cutting the shank threads, it will be uniform diameter from the rear to a step at 2.25". At that step, it will taper to a diameter of APPROXIMATELY 0.795" at the 4" end (it will be a smaller diameter than that - I'll follow up). That taper may need to be cut last; you'll need a shoulder to press the sleeve onto the barrel with an arbor press. What inside sleeve diameter are we looking at? Whatever the diameter is at 4" from the rear end of your barrel; you'll have to machine the barrel back to the breech end that same diameter so it's uniform. It might be 0.770". It will be less than 0.795". I'd want both diameters to be equal for a press fit. I'm thinking in terms of shaft bearings... 4" is a long length to press though. I would NOT want a "running" fit. I'd use two small diameter pins set-in like sights are set on military barrels. You can machine the barrel with the sleeve on it as though it were on piece after that. I've done this with sleeves on shafts and bearing on shafts. It should work on a barrel too. I'll admit I had t re-read this a couple of times to follow it, but it sounds like you got this pretty much worked through. I like the idea of the pins and being able to machine the barrel as a single piece. I have actually sent out pump motors to have bearing/bushings press fitted and they last for years spinnig/vibrating at very high speeds. Should not have a problem with separation if done like you said from the concussion of firing. The interesting thing is I would actually like to the get the sleeve as long as reasonbly and safely possible for one reason. Scope mount. I could acutally use the extra meat beyond the chamber to safely tap into and mount the base/rings for the LER scope. This would actually be engineering it for LER in mind and get neatly around the rear split bridge/bolt handle problem. If I can get Sonics mag idea to work I will have a alot of length to play with in the front of the action for the scope. I actually have a Boyds stock for this one that is need of some minor reapir and it would look really unique if it can come together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gun nutty Posted January 16, 2010 Report Share Posted January 16, 2010 I will add that for drilling and tapping purposes, you may want to do all of the machining of the sleeve, including cutting of the shank threads and internal bore diameter, in one step. You can still save the taper cut for later so you can have a shoulder for pressing. My reasoning is that you can "time" the sleeve, ensuring that the scope mounting holes will be on top, and any locking pins will be below the stock line. This can all be done after the shank threads are cut. I'd keep that sleeve short. You could make it the same diameter as the front ring and tap holes in both the receiver ring and the sleeve for a pistol mount (maybe a T/C or a muzzle loader mount). the .357 doesn't recoil that much and I'd rather have less weight on the rifle. Even an aluminum mount and rings will still be stronger than any scope you'll put on the rifle. The SKS, Anshutz rifles, and a slew of other weapons have barrels pinned into the receiver. I see nothing wrong with doing this, especially for a lower-pressured round. I'd set one pin just forward of the shank threads, and the other in the middle of the taper. I'd ideally want them positioned 180 degrees radially from each other, but you still could set them less than 90 degrees and still hide them both below the stock line. Maybe it really makes no difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8uck5nort Posted January 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 Thanks Gun Nutty, Cool. I got some direction and sounds like some help when I get ready to tackle this one. I am slowly acquiring equipment a little at a time. Just picked up a table saw for christmas. Next up is a drill press, and then a belt sander, then maybe a lathe, or then a... Whew! I just spent another grand! Doh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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